The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 2012 Posts: 6,287
    No. The joke was lazy, but Moore delivers it well. I like this gadget. The scene where he is sneaking outside Kamal's palace while Magda is knowingly watching, all to a Barry score, is wonderful. One of the underrated aspects of OP is how Octopussy and her circus operate in a morally ambiguous way.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Casino Royale 67 is just a silly spoof, I think it's custard and gravy to the official franchise. I never watch it even If I had the opportunity, therefore anything said in Octopussy from that film is fine with me, at least it was a proper Bond release and can't complain about it. What I'm trying to say is I think thesis is wrong as we can't take too much attention from what happens in Casino Royale 67 so if there's a repeat in Octopussy I feel that is all very well and good. Thesis is incorrect
  • Posts: 12,526
    Disagree with the thesis as already mentioned. It was an unofficial spoof! I think it works well within OP and never really thought about the CR67 version when i saw it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 053</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Sylvia Trench should have appeared in more films than merely the first two.</b></font>
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 12,837
    053- I'm not sure, she's sort of forgettable (although to be fair she was only in 2 films), but I think it makes bond look cooler when he's with different women. And if she was in more films then chances are that girls like dink in GF would've been replaced by sylvia. Disagree.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Though that was the plan, I'm OK with how it ended up. Hamilton got something right!
  • Posts: 5,634
    Gayson was adequate for the two early Connery releases and I feel that was sufficient, I suppose she was responsible in a way for the now immortal line 'Bond, James Bond'. Bit of a dull character all said, so in a way two appearances was maybe enough
  • Posts: 1,856
    Dunno, ummmm this is a good one!!!
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 401
    I've thought before that it would have made more sense for Bond to marry her in OHMSS, It could have worked.

    Sylvia Trench alternate timeline
    Dr. No - Introduction
    FRWL - Scene with Bond
    GF - Passing reference
    TB - Scene with Bond
    YOLT - Probably not refrenced
    OHMSS - She tries to commit suicide, Bond finds out she's the daughter of Marc-Ange Draco. She fills the role of Tracy.

    What I just wrote was off the top of my head, so it's not exactly solid, but someone like Maibaum could have written it well.
  • Posts: 1,407
    ^ Interesting idea. They could of even introduced the Trench character as Tracy and had it play out that way. I'm glad with the way everything worked out though. Trench could of gotten annoying in my opinion
  • Posts: 63
    I suppose a recurring girlfriend would have steered the series in the wrong direction entirely. The gag potential of Bond not being able to make love to her would have quickly worm off and after that it would just have been a trite ritual. The other direction - making Trench a semi-official 'steady' item - would have lead to uneasy feelings in the audience whenever Bond is going to 'cheat' on her in the course of an assignment. The idea of Trench coming back each film doesn't go well with the general direction of Bond.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I've never had a desire to see ST in any other films and there was never a "reacurring girlfriend" in the books so I disagree.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 401
    6of1 wrote:
    I suppose a recurring girlfriend would have steered the series in the wrong direction entirely. The gag potential of Bond not being able to make love to her would have quickly worm off and after that it would just have been a trite ritual.
    Who said they would reuse that gag?
    6of1 wrote:
    The other direction - making Trench a semi-official 'steady' item - would have lead to uneasy feelings in the audience whenever Bond is going to 'cheat' on her in the course of an assignment.
    Because Bond is world-renowned for being faithful. The man cheats on Tracy in OHMSS around 3 times, nobody cared.
    6of1 wrote:
    The idea of Trench coming back each film doesn't go well with the general direction of Bond.
    She would only come back until OHMSS, if she became Bond's wife.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 24,169
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    The man cheats on Tracy in OHMSS around 3 times, nobody cared.

    Excellent point!
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    The man cheats on Tracy in OHMSS around 3 times, nobody cared.

    Excellent point!

    lol! A very good point! I think the Trench charactor was played and used just about right!
  • Posts: 11,189
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    The man cheats on Tracy in OHMSS around 3 times, nobody cared.

    Excellent point!

    Yeah but he was "keeping the British end up" and doing it for queen and country so no one cares.
  • Posts: 63
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    6of1 wrote:
    I suppose a recurring girlfriend would have steered the series in the wrong direction entirely. The gag potential of Bond not being able to make love to her would have quickly worm off and after that it would just have been a trite ritual.
    Who said they would reuse that gag?

    That was the plan, use the disturbed date with Trench as a running gag. Thought that was common knowledge? Think I've read about it in Rubin's book.


    Dr_Metz wrote:
    6of1 wrote:
    The other direction - making Trench a semi-official 'steady' item - would have lead to uneasy feelings in the audience whenever Bond is going to 'cheat' on her in the course of an assignment.
    Because Bond is world-renowned for being faithful. The man cheats on Tracy in OHMSS around 3 times, nobody cared.

    Indeed.




    Dr_Metz wrote:
    6of1 wrote:
    The idea of Trench coming back each film doesn't go well with the general direction of Bond.
    She would only come back until OHMSS, if she became Bond's wife.

    Trench becoming Bond's wife? Hmmm...

    Can't I see that myself, sorry. She just doesn't strike me as significant enough. But what do I know, could even have worked as a Nick&Nora couple.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 401
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah but he was "keeping the British end up" and doing it for queen and country so no one cares.
    Same with just about every other character up until then. Romanova, Volpe, Derval, Suzuki, all of them were "for queen and country". Tracy was the only one up until then that he truly loved, Trench seemed like an afterthought for him.

  • edited March 2012 Posts: 1,497
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 053</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Sylvia Trench should have appeared in more films than merely the first two.</b></font>

    Maybe a few more appearances here and there. I would like it if she popped up every once in a while just for fun; I kind of like that idea. The point of her character, was that she was Bond's girlfriend on the side, nothing serious. Marrying her seems out of the question to me, because Bond would just be settling down. Whereas with Tracy, it was more a love at first sight kind of thing.
  • Posts: 1,778
    I could've taken of left it. I wouldn't have minded seeing her pop up in another film or two but it's not a big deal to me. I remember hearing an interview saying that she was gonna be in the first 6 films and constantly get shafted by Bond culminating in a 6th film. Maybe she was gonna be the one who murdered Tracy in OHMSS lol. It was the 6th film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    The man cheats on Tracy in OHMSS around 3 times, nobody cared.

    Excellent point!

    It was 1969, after all!

    As to the debate, Trench was unnecessary. Moneypenny fulfills the same long-suffering role, minus the sex, plus MP is easier to work into the plot as she is a colleague.
  • Posts: 12,526
    I could've taken of left it. I wouldn't have minded seeing her pop up in another film or two but it's not a big deal to me. I remember hearing an interview saying that she was gonna be in the first 6 films and constantly get shafted by Bond culminating in a 6th film. Maybe she was gonna be the one who murdered Tracy in OHMSS lol. It was the 6th film.

    Don't worry! James is constantly shafting in one form or another! :))
  • Posts: 1,497
    echo wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    The man cheats on Tracy in OHMSS around 3 times, nobody cared.

    Excellent point!

    It was 1969, after all!

    As to the debate, Trench was unnecessary. Moneypenny fulfills the same long-suffering role, minus the sex, plus MP is easier to work into the plot as she is a colleague.

    Yes, but Trench was the perfect shag-doll for Bond when he was off leisuring around. One of my favorite scenes of the series is Bond and her in the boat at the beginning From Russia with Love, just as Mi6 is phoning in--classic Bond moment right there, and obviously wouldn't be appropriate for Moneypenny

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 053</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Sylvia Trench should have appeared in more films than merely the first two.</b></font>

    Agreed although perhaps her appearing only twice adds something to her legacy of being the only recurring woman in 007's life(excluding Miss Moneypenny and Dame Judi Dench's M, of course). I remember reading on some fan sites that the Paris McKenna Carver character should've been Sylvia Trench. When I was a child and becoming a new Bond fan and just discovering the Bond films when they'd run on TV, I remember thinking that she and Mary Goodnight were the same character for some reason. After all, Bond had known both of them before and I hadn't seen DN yet at that point but had seen FRWL and TMWTGG.

    I think Terence Young's original idea for Miss Trench was that she would be Bond's London-based girlfriend for the first 4 films, then in the 5th one should would be the lead girl and Bond would marry her at the end. She wouldn't get shot at the end and the series would officially end. They probably had no idea the series would've survived 5 decades, 6 lead Bond actors and 23 films back in 1962.

  • Posts: 4,762
    She was a fantastic introductory Bond Girl to start off the massive line of others to follow over the next 50 years, but I think her appearances in DN and FRWL were enough. If she had come back for more, I think it would have put some restrictions on Bond as a ladies' man, seeing as he might be tied down to one girl. As a guy, one thing that's very epic about the Bond movies is his vast supply of girls in each movie, and I think that having Sylvia keep re-appearing might have limited the arrary of women to follow, and could have gotten very boring after a while.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Agree. I loved Sylvia and I wouldn't have minded seeing her post FRWL again. I enjoyed her perfect balance of sexy and smart, and her small part in DN before the mission heated up was very good to see. Though she had only a snippet in FRWL, I still loved seeing her again and enjoyed her little allusion to DN when she yelled at Bond for going off. I'm sad to say that she didn't appear again.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I think she could have been used in GF as Sean's caddy as a distraction for GF when they're golfing. Remember, she was putting around in Sean's flat in DN and Sean could have used her golf knowledge to his advantage.

    Otherwise, I think her character would have ran its course by TB.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Kerim wrote:
    I think she could have been used in GF as Sean's caddy as a distraction for GF when they're golfing. Remember, she was putting around in Sean's flat in DN and Sean could have used her golf knowledge to his advantage.

    Otherwise, I think her character would have ran its course by TB.

    Great idea! In TB she could have tailed Bond to the clinic lol.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,566
    Here's an idea (a poor one at that):

    She doesn't appear in any more Bond films, but she gets her own spinoff as a famous spy's casual fling. It doesn't make it to season 2.

    All jokes aside, I'd have no problem with her having more screen time if just for my own visual satisfaction ;), but I think it's fine her being in just the two films.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    QBranch wrote:
    Here's an idea (a poor one at that):

    She doesn't appear in any more Bond films, but she gets her own spinoff as a famous spy's casual fling. It doesn't make it to season 2.

    All jokes aside, I'd have no problem with her having more screen time if just for my own visual satisfaction ;), but I think it's fine her being in just the two films.

    I'd be fine with that. Eunice had what it took and actually played the part well. Unlike the Halle/Jinx counterpart. [-(
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