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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    I agree. It was a nice little touch that I bet most people weren't expecting.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited March 2012 Posts: 2,629
    LTK brilliantly acknowledged OHMSS and EON may have finally acknowledged OHMSS's greatness after mostly ignoring it for 20 years.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 059</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>TB owes most of its success to GF.</b></font>
  • WVPoefWVPoef
    Posts: 147
    Thesis 58 - yes.

    Thesis 59 - Yes and no.

  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 059</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>TB owes most of its success to GF.</b></font>
    Yes and No,
    It's a great film, with loads of action and interesting to watch, however, Goldfinger did a lot to the series, and possibly without it and some other icon Bond movies- like GF, TB, TSWLM, FYEO, OP, GE, CR-, Bond would not longer exist.
  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    A lot of the success, yes. But not most of it. It's also story that was intended for the big screen from day one, and this shows not a little in the scale. Also it's the first of the nuke-blackmail stories, which was a fresh thrill at the time.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I suspect yes.

    The use of the rocket pack is a case in point of a film trying to go "bigger" than its predecessor.
  • VolanteVolante
    Posts: 774
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 059</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>TB owes most of its success to GF.</b></font>

    I tend to disagree. Thunderball only beat Goldfinger by around $17 million at the box office, while Goldfinger beat From Russia With Love by around $46 million. I think GF benefited from FRWL just as much, if not more, than TB did from GF.

    It did try to top all other Bonds and be the biggest Bond of all, and it worked. TB was a phenomenon and a great movie in it's own right; but it owes its success more to Bond Mania than GF specifically.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    No. If anything, TB owes it success to DN and FRWL. GF was nothing like those three.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    All the Bond films owe there success to Dr No! Thats the whole foundation to the series. In terms of gadgets? That started in FRWL. So i would have to disagree with the thesis.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 13,355
    It's its own film like the three before it. As for Bond mania, not at all, the films were still growing at the time of release.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I suspect with GF they realised the potential they had. There was a bigger push towards targeting the kids - a trend that continued with TB and YOLT.

    Like I said before they had the rocket pack in TB. In GF it was all about the "ejector seat" toy car. Apparently that was the big "must have" present in 1964. My dad used to own it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Agree. For better or worse, GF moved the series from "classic spy thrillers" to "blockbuster events."
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 059</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>TB owes most of its success to GF.</b></font>

    I partially agree in the sense TB also owes in equal parts to DN and FRWL as well. TB took the strengths built over the first 3 films and added to it the big budget widescreen feel that would later character Lewis Gilbert's Bond films along with a swaggering self-confidence that resulted in the most financially successful Bond film(figures adjusted for inflation, of course).

  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    No, if Thunderball wasn't as big as it was and still is, then it would have been a flop because audiences would have been looking for a comparative to Goldfinger. Had I been an audience member back in 1965 I would have found Thunderball vastly better than Goldfinger in all too many aspects.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Disagree. TB was a million times better in its own right, and started the massive global Bondmania.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Disagree. TB was a million times better in its own right, and started the massive global Bondmania.

    The Bondmania really began with GF though. From what I've read Connery didn't attend the TB premier after someone threw themselves at the windscreen of his Aston Martin during GF's premier.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Disagree. TB was a million times better in its own right, and started the massive global Bondmania.

    The Bondmania really began with GF though. From what I've read Connery didn't attend the TB premier after someone threw themselves at the windscreen of his Aston Martin during GF's premier.

    I'm talking large scale Bondmania. The hysteria after GF and into TB was huge. Bond merchandise, posters, the whole 9. It was at the peak when TB released, because Bond was great entertainment and the character and his world was pure escapism.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    GF really started the hype and with TB they dunked it home.

    Both excellent samples of good 007 movies, close to the novels but still very much the movie 007.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I'm talking large scale Bondmania. The hysteria after GF and into TB was huge. Bond merchandise, posters, the whole 9. It was at the peak when TB released, because Bond was great entertainment and the character and his world was pure escapism.

    Precisely. At its peak when TB was released - and then quite a marked tail off for YOLT on the back of the dullfest that was TB.

    Not that I'm a big GF fan but from DN, then FRWL and then GF Bondmania had been crescendoing and everyone was mad for TB. Would always be difficult to keep such memento going though and even though the box office was spectacular, I dont think anyone can argue that there was nowhere near the hype and anticipation for YOLT indicating at the very least a levelling off of Bondmania, if not a downright decline.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Thunderball for me was a marked improvement on the mundane activities of Goldfinger

    Thesis therefore in not necessarily accurate. Connery was past his supreme best by 1965 and it's a shame that Gf was the disappointment that is was (for me) as I feel after two outstanding appearances he could not quite manage it for a third successive time. I really must watch Thunderball again soon
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    Connery was past his supreme best by 1965

    Disagree there. Sean Connery circa 1965 is the best James Bond IMHO. He was at his most superconfident in the role before either boredom or weight problems would hit him.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    By Circa you mean in a thereabouts time, which could ideally be towards either From Russia With Love or You Only Live Twice going in opposite directions

    Granted, Connery was very good in Thunderball, it is a very good Bond release, I merely feel the Scot was at his most Bond like in his first two releases, the pinnacle of his tenure I feel safe to say, therefore 1962-63 for me will always be Sean's Bond. He was the very essence of the James Bond character in his earliest appearances. Well I'm sticking with that anyway
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    By Circa you mean in a thereabouts time, which could ideally be towards either From Russia With Love or You Only Live Twice going in opposite directions

    Granted, Connery was very good in Thunderball, it is a very good Bond release, I merely feel the Scot was at his most Bond like in his first two releases, the pinnacle of his tenure I feel safe to say, therefore 1962-63 for me will always be Sean's Bond. He was the very essence of the James Bond character in his earliest appearances. Well I'm sticking with that anyway

    I do agree that Connery was terrific in 1962-1963. I just think he got better with each of his first 4 performances reaching his apex in TB.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    But agree with me and say You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever are two Connery releases best forgotten maybe. His releases are like a rollercoaster if you like, there we were with Dr No and From Russia with Love, rising greatly and rolling along the highest points of the track, then a significant drop down the rails to Goldfinger, up again out of the lower reaches and on to a steady rate with Thunderball, then again a downward ride with YOLT, before violently going off the tracks and ending with a crash in the hook a duck stall for Diamonds and winning a coconut

    That's one way I see it anyway
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    I totally agree with PrinceKamalKhan - Connery in TB gave one of the most charismatic, cool, superconfident perfomance in the entire cinematic history. If you want to learn how to be cool, just watch Connery in TB.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    I totally agree with PrinceKamalKhan - Connery in TB gave one of the most charismatic, cool, superconfident perfomance in the entire cinematic history. If you want to learn how to be cool, just watch Connery in TB.

    I also agree. DN was a decent debut, I think his performances in FRWL and GF are similar although there is a hint of the supercool drifting in with GF. By TB it's effortless.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 060</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>GoldenEye deliberately tried to distance itself from Dalton's films.</b></font>
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,713
    Like every debute outing for a new actor tries to distance itself from the previous actor ? Agree.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    I wonder how much of GE was a leftover from the cancelled third Dalton film.
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