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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    "And if you should come across Oromov guilty or not I don't want you running off on some kind of vendetta...avenging Alec Trevelyan will not bring him back"

    "you didn't get him killed"

    "neither did you...don't make it personal"

    Agree
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Yes and no. Although it's definatly closer to the Connery and Moore films there are instances that stand out that make it easy to believe that it was written with Dalton in mind.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    Agree. The pretitle sequence is set before Dalton became Bond.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Oh it tries, but ultimately it fails. It feels like a Dalton Bond that's missing the most vital componant, Dalton.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 13,356
    I think a new actor as Bond did that by itself to an extent without even trying.

    You've also got the PTS taking place in 1986. Interesting number of years to skip to say the least...

    Had it been made in 1991 with Dalton would it have been better? I think so but who knows.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    As already mentioned? Each actor wants to put their own stamp on the role so i would agree with this thesis.
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    Goldeneye was written for Dalton and it shows. Brosnan is good in the role but he gets better in future films. Dalton as Bond and the original choice of Anthony Hopkins as Alec would of made for an unforgettable classic Bond film. Instead we got a pretty darn good film anyway
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 060</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>GoldenEye deliberately tried to distance itself from Dalton's films.</b></font>

    Oh, it clearly tried to with the 1986 set PTS. That annoyed me in that it seemed to imply that the last "good" Bond film was AVTAK when both TLD and LTK are vastly superior to the 1985 Bond film. However, as the Major pointed out, Dalton's Bond's ghost clearly haunts GE while Brosnan's Bond seems like the understudy here. Brosnan would be much more at home in TND.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited March 2012 Posts: 7,653
    In what way did it distance itself from the Dalton movies?
    I took it as another tale in the continuing series of 007. I did not notice any reboot, it was business as usual.

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited March 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Right but with the PTS taking place in 1986 (as opposed to saying 'one year ago' for example) they are clearly saying that Peirce should have been Bond when Tim was doing it. Kind of a dick move when you think about it!
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    bondbat007 wrote:
    Goldeneye was written for Dalton and it shows. Brosnan is good in the role but he gets better in future films. Dalton as Bond and the original choice of Anthony Hopkins as Alec would of made for an unforgettable classic Bond film. Instead we got a pretty darn good film anyway

    Pretty much how I feel about GoldenEye too. I'd love to have Dalton in it, but I still like it just fine (my favorite in fact). I had not heard of Anthony Hopkins as 006 though. I heard Alan Rickman. Either one would have rocked though
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 060</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>GoldenEye deliberately tried to distance itself from Dalton's films.</b></font>

    I think this thesis is half-true and half-false. In one sense, yes, it did distance itself from the Dalton era by introducing a new 007, a new M, a new Moneypenny, and finally a new director. However, the dark, serious, down-to-business Bond was still hanging over from TLD and LTK, spilling over into GE, making it Brosnan's only really dark Bond movie, except for maybe TWINE in some aspects there.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Um...Well, wasn't GE written for Tim and not Pierce? If that is the case I disagree.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    058- agree. Another great scene in bonds greatest film.

    059- agree. GF layed out the classic bond formula that alot of bond films owe their success too.

    060- Disagree. I think it ties in well with TLD's opening. Think about it, 006 is "killed" and bond almost dies, so M decides the double 0s need extra training. He sends them to gilbatar, and TLD begins.

    Goldeneye only distances itself from daltons films as much as any of the other films do with a new actor.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    060- Disagree. I think it ties in well with TLD's opening. Think about it, 006 is "killed" and bond almost dies, so M decides the double 0s need extra training. He sends them to gilbatar, and TLD begins.

    Could have been cool to see Brosnan interact with Robert Brown.... but then I'd miss Dalton, and I can't have that
    :D
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,778
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    Right but with the PTS taking place in 1986 (as opposed to saying 'one year ago' for example) they are clearly saying that Peirce should have been Bond when Tim was doing it. Kind of a dick move when you think about it!

    Well I think it's set that far back because the PTS had to be during the Cold War. So anytime after 1989 after the collapse of the Berlin Wall simply wouldn't have worked.

    But on that note I always hate it when film producers just because and actor or film didn't make as much money that means it was bad. TLD and LTK are miles ahead of the likes of AVTAK.
  • WVPoefWVPoef
    edited March 2012 Posts: 147
    Disagree

    It was written with Dalton in mind and had the Dalton feel to it. I believe if Dalton played in it, it would of made it into my top 10 list for Bond movie.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 061</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FYEO offers the most thrilling ski chase in the entire Bond franchise.</b></font>
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    Posts: 401

    Thesis 61: NOPE
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    061- I like the TSWLM chase and TWINE chase better. Never understood the love for the FYEO ski chase.
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    It's a good scene and it beats AVTAK and TWINE, but doesn't come close to OHMSS and TSWLM. Disagree
  • slyfoxslyfox
    edited March 2012 Posts: 940
    Disagree.

    I rate it 2nd or 3rd, behind OHMSS in pole position.
  • 0iker00iker0
    edited March 2012 Posts: 501
    I think it's fighting with the OHMSS. I'm not sure, giving to it a thought my ski chases ranking would be:
    1) OHMSS
    2) FYEO
    3) TSWLM
    4) AVTAK











    5) TWINE

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Disagree. I TSWLM best
    then FYEO
    and OHMSS
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    i agree with this thesis! Especially with the inclusion of the toboggan run in the chase! Then
    OHMSS
    TSWLM
    TWINE
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Absolutely, although On Her Majestys' runs it close, thesis is spot on

    There is a degree of silliness about it, a pity really in one of Moore's more straight faced 007 adventures, but it's arguably the most exciting and action packed

    Was there really a ski chase in Spy though?, Moore emerges from a log cabin and wears an awfully inappropriate ski suit and jumps off a mountain ledge in one of the most overblown and ridiculously overrated moments in James Bond history, it was all over so quick that each time you nearly miss it

    Ski-ing was best in For Your Eyes Only indeed, not just that but the build up to it as well, when Locque and his men pursue him at the jump, it was quite suspenseful
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited March 2012 Posts: 2,629
    I think GL would strongly disagree with this thesis.

    1. OHMSS
    2. TSWLM
    3. FYEO
    4. TLD (I know it's a cello case, but I'm still counting it)
    5. TWINE
    .
    .
    .
    1,358,146,902. Water skiing squirrel
    1,358.146,903. AVTAK
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    0iker0 wrote:
    I think it's fighting with the OHMSS. I'm not sure, giving to it a thought my ski chases ranking would be:
    1) OHMSS
    2) FYEO
    3) TSWLM












    4) TWINE

    Cant really argue with this ranking - just need to slot AVTAK right behind TSWLM but be sure to maintain the chasm to the shoddy TWINE scene.
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    People may disagree with me, but it needs to be said. One of the big differences for me with this chase vs OHMSS is the score. I'm not a fan of it and it brings the scene down for me. Same with TSWLM, although besides the cowbell, the score in that scene is decent. OHMSS has THE best score in the series and the ski chase is the best scored scene in any Bond film in my opinion. FYEO's scene itself is great, but the score is annoying for me
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondbat007 wrote:
    People may disagree with me, but it needs to be said. One of the big differences for me with this chase vs OHMSS is the score. I'm not a fan of it and it brings the scene down for me. Same with TSWLM, although besides the cowbell, the score in that scene is decent. OHMSS has THE best score in the series and the ski chase is the best scored scene in any Bond film in my opinion. FYEO's scene itself is great, but the score is annoying for me

    Well said Sir. From the moment Bond puts on his skis to when he meets Tracy at the ice rink is the best 5-10 mins of the series - and the epic music is a very big part of that.
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