The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Different films yes, interesting plots yes... but all with the same painfully dull cinematography.

    Again, I think this sums up the view of many other people as well as mine.

    Only Dalton's entrance shock things up in the 80's.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Thesis would seen accurate

    Glen is the 1980s Bond without question and gave us some very good adventures. For Your Eyes Only and Octopussy are the most adventurous, with Daylights not far behind. View to a Kill and License to Kill was a bit dull I'm afraid and you'll be aware that in each of his five releases there was a character who took a fall from a height and usually some birds taking a scare along the way, I notice these kinds of things
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thesis would seen accurate

    Glen is the 1980s Bond without question and gave us some very good adventures. For Your Eyes Only and Octopussy are the most adventurous, with Daylights not far behind. View to a Kill and License to Kill was a bit dull I'm afraid and you'll be aware that in each of his five releases there was a character who took a fall from a height and usually some birds taking a scare along the way, I notice these kinds of things

    I'm getting more in awe of the kinds of things you notice, dear Baltimore007!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 13,978
    I don't think all 5 films were the same, his first 3 were trying to be the typical light and fluffy Moore style, while at the same time being serious for the 1908's but failed on both fronts. As for Moore's hair, it makes no difference to me, he looked like he was in desperate need of another coat of Ronseal. He'd been in the role for 7 films/12 years and the series had gone stale. I know that FYEO is a snozefest and OP an attempt to piggybak on Indiana Jones, but at least they might have something decent about them (if you look long enough). AVTAK is just the most insiped mess, it has nothing going for it. That compared to the Dalton films, new (younger, agile) actor, fresh diretion...

    Thesis 36: Agree.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 063</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>John Glen made five surprisingly different and quite interesting Bond films.</b></font>

    I'd have to agree with this, for the most part.
    FYEO was a step back into reality after the likes of MR and TSWLM. Both of which were grandoise and out of this world. FYEO brought Bond back to being a more cloak and dagger thriller, where Bond had to rely on his wits, rather than a handy gadget.
    OP continued very much in the same vein as FYEO, but (imo) bettered it. The pacing was better, the villains more interesting. An alround improvement on the first of the Glen directed films.
    AVTAK, takes a step backwards. A painting by numbers entry, with an ageing star (and cast) , a weak lead Bond girl, and a plot stolen from GF, but updated to use microchips instead of gold bullion. The only saving grace of View is Chris Walken given the chance to play a Bond villain, and John Barry's score.
    TLD takes a leap forward, giving us a new Bond, and a freshness to the series. Daylights remains one of my favourite entries in the series. Although slightly dated, it has a rewatchability better than many. The pace and action sequences are top notch, but the main factor here is Dalton. A fantastic Bond, and a wondeful Bond film. Glen really does take things up to the next level with TLD. After twelve years of Roger Moore, the Bond films turned a corner, and succeeded in delivering a more than decent film.
    LTK, tried a new angle after fifteen films. And imo it was a bold and brave move. The film is much darker than previous entries, and once again Dalton delivers a fantastic performance. The downfall to this, was it left fans and cinemagoers alike divided. You either love or loathe LTK, there seems to be no middle ground.
    John Glen gave us four very good films and one very mediocre movie. His services to the Bond franchise are under rated imo, his films though never ground breaking, always deliver the goods. They are indeed interesting and different.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I've come to realise I prefer OP to both FYEO AND TLD. Don't get me wrong, all three are decent movies but OP just has that special something for me that the others don't have. Maybe its Steven Berkoff, Louis Jourdan and the exotic mysteriousness of Maud Adams.

    ...and of course the awesomeness that is Roger Moore ;)

    Oh yeah, for the most part I agree with this thesis

    In regard to LTK I often think of it more as a step sideways than a step forward or backward. It tried to do something a bit different but ultimatley had more of an "80s thriller" vibe. It's weak reception at the BO partially led to Bond being in limbo for 6 years.
  • Posts: 12,526
    John Glen certainly did give us 5 very different films. The only quibble would be after the first time he did the whole hidden bird in a window ledge? There was no need to keep repeating it in the next film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 064</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The TB PTS ends on a silly note, making the transition to the OT rather dull.</b></font>
  • Posts: 1,856
    I think the Transistion works, it is the most realistic gadget that Aston proberbly has...
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 501
    Virage wrote:
    I think the Transistion works, it is the most realistic gadget that Aston proberbly has...
    What? How on Earth could you possibly have all that water in the Aston? I think it's the crazyest and most useless gadget in the Aston, with the ejector seat, what do you do if they come from the sides?
    So it does end on a silly note, the transition is great though...
    Partially agree
  • Posts: 147
    Thesis 064 - Agree
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    It is silly. The gadget could never function as @0iker0 said above. The water supply would need to be bigger than the car, and the stupid goons merely run into the jets. Why not move to the side?
    It would've been better to have Madame LaPorte (The french agent) turn a gun on Bond, whereupon Bond fires the ejector seat, sending her into a water hazzard. Lake , pond what have you. You could still get the water opening the film wanted. Or something similar.
    As it is, it's poor, silly and dull.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082
    No, it works great. How could it be better?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    It is silly but I suppose the series was heading that way since Goldfinger with the next film really going OTT.

    It doesn't spoil to scene for me though. Of all the 'big' Bonds, Thunderball is the one I am able to just go with, largely because of Young.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 24,183
    INTERMISSION

    Guys, I'll be gone for about four days. Thesis 065 will have to wait till the weekend. ;-) Have fun though discussing this thesis.

    intermission.jpg
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    No worries DD. Sometimes if a topic takes off, it's good to have a little longer to discuss it.
  • Posts: 4,813
    0iker0 wrote:
    Virage wrote:
    I think the Transition works, it is the most realistic gadget that Aston probably has...
    What? How on Earth could you possibly have all that water in the Aston? I think it's the craziest and most useless gadget in the Aston, with the ejector seat, what do you do if they come from the sides?
    So it does end on a silly note, the transition is great though...
    Partially agree

    It would be rather fun if it was actually gasoline, and right before the song starts Bond lights them up! I can just picture it: (drives off and looks at female passenger) 'Hot day today isn't it?' THUNDERBALL

    lol I can't do one liners
  • Posts: 4,813
    'We should have brought marshmallows, LULZ'


    ok ok I'm done ;)
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 12,837
    063 AGREE He made the fun, OTT a view to a kill, but also made the gritty, awesome LTK.

    064 DISAGREE I liked it.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 063</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>John Glen made five surprisingly different and quite interesting Bond films.</b></font>

    2 classics: TLD and OP
    2 decent midrange Bond films: LTK and FYEO
    1 of the 3 worst in the series: AVTAK

    I'd say Glen's films were hit and miss depending on the quality of the scripts he received from Maibaum and Wilson.
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 064</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The TB PTS ends on a silly note, making the transition to the OT rather dull.</b></font>

    Disagree. It's no sillier than discarding one's wetsuit to reveal a dry tuxedo underneath(GF). It's also a good forerunner of the Moore era PTSs like TSWLM with the parachute escape jump.

  • Posts: 12,526
    Didn't expect water jets to be honest when the bullet proof screen came up! I would have preferred Flame Throwers :-bd
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Thunderball is very water themed, so I think the only reason they used water jets was to have a clever way to morph into the opening credits.

    Flames would have been awesome though. ;)

    Or they could have surprised us all with REAR machine guns!
  • Posts: 12,526
    Yep! Good point!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Silly? How about realistic. Disagree.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Honestly the only thing that really bugs me about that scene is the rust on the DB5. I know it's supposed to be following from GF but come on! It pains me to see the car like that...and I don't think Bond would allow himself to leave the car like that.
  • Posts: 4,813
    I think what you're referring to is dirt from the jet-pack landing.
  • Posts: 1,407
    ^ I've actually hadn't thought of that. It's debatable
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Is it not conceivable that like a fire engine, the Aston has a pipe that connects up with the water main and just pumps the water out at high pressure?

    Actually thats even more ridiculous - the whole boot would be full of the pump leaving no room for the bulletproof shield or the oil slick mechanism. And just how would Bond connect it? Would he have to stop by a fire hydrant and get out with a little tool every time he wantd to use it?

    The whole thing is indeed ludicrous.
  • Posts: 4,762
    Thesis 063:
    I agree, John Glen's work is outstanding. There are such classics like OP, TLD, and LTK, and then two other greats in FYEO and AVTAK.

    Thesis 064
    Nah, it's very Bondian and cool, that's for sure. Was it cheesy? Not really, the only thing I wish had been removed from the PTS was the ridiculous jet-pack. Sorry, but it's just unnecessary and quite frankly, it would have been cooler for Bond to have gunned his way out of the house!
  • Posts: 5,634
    Last thesis is spot on i.e, 'it ends on a silly note', we can't be fairer than that, but it doesn't effect the credits or Tom Jones song in any way

    It would look as silly today as it was in 1965 I reckon, having Bond put on a rocket pack and go zooming off over the rooftops, I understand I haven't seen this one for a long time, and must get round to another viewing sometimes, but I'll always insist it was a bit unsavory or stupid even, and Connery was such a sensible Bond too :-<
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