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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Let's not forget that YOLT barely made half the gross of it's immediate predecessor (TB), so maybe there was more than just boredom that made Connery quit the role... I'm not saying he was pushed, but it's a possibility.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Let's not forget that YOLT barely made half the gross of it's immediate predecessor (TB), so maybe there was more than just boredom that made Connery quit the role... I'm not saying he was pushed, but it's a possibility.

    Im sure he wasn't pushed. Connery was one of the most popular actors in the world at the time. A blame YOLT's drop on the release CR67 more than anything else.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 066</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Sean Connery was most bored playing Bond in YOLT.</b></font>

    Of all his 7 Bond performances(including his non-EON one in NSNA) I would agree he seemed at his most tired of the role in YOLT. However, I'll take a performance from Connery at his most bored over one from Brosnan at his most enthusiastic any day.

  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    I don't agree with that because Peter Hunt had a passion for that project no director besides Terrance Young had. He would of made sure Connery gave a good performance.
  • slyfoxslyfox
    edited April 2012 Posts: 940
    Very much agree with this one. If you need convincing, watch scenes with M in the ship, meeting the sumo wrestler for his ticket, watching the sumo wresting fight in the stands etc etc etc.

    Aside from his more bloated appearance, his facial expressions and line delivery is lacking enthusiasm in YOLT. There's less excitement in his actions and that distinct panther-like movement and mischievous quality he had from DN-TB is certainly down a level.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 067</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The LTK revenge plot would never have been played off successfully by Roger Moore.</b></font>
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    Agree. It would of have been played in a more lighthearted matter. I'm not saying that Moore couldn't act serious from time to time, but avenging his best friend and his friend'sbride is a bit too much for Moore and it wouldn't have worked IMO. I think it was perfect for Dalton
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Agreed. While Rog did have his moments as a "tougher Bond" I don't think that kind of story would have been up Roger's alley (or Pierce's for that matter).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    By a 60+ years old Moore, no. But Sir Rog circa 'North Sea Hijack', IMO he could have pulled it off !
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    I rather enjoy Moore's little moment of sincere revenge pleasure in FYEO, right after kicking Loque off the cliff. As to keeping up with the depressing mood the entire film, is of course a different thing. I doubt Roger would have been enthusiastic about taking his Bond there. Would his acting have suffered under whatever disliking he may have had for the script? I don't know. The man can be quite professional when he has to be. However, it wouldn't be the kind of Bond material he'd be comfortable with I think and so he might not give himself 100 % in the end.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I rather enjoy Moore's little moment of sincere revenge pleasure in FYEO, right after kicking Loque off the cliff. As to keeping up with the depressing mood the entire film, is of course a different thing. I doubt Roger would have been enthusiastic about taking his Bond there. Would his acting have suffered under whatever disliking he may have had for the script? I don't know. The man can be quite professional when he has to be. However, it wouldn't be the kind of Bond material he'd be comfortable with I think and so he might not give himself 100 % in the end.

    I agree DD. I think he would have had reservations about that kind of story.

    I don't think many people are going to disagree with this thesis.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited April 2012 Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 067</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The LTK revenge plot would never have been played off successfully by Roger Moore.</b></font>

    Agreed. LTK belongs to Dalton just as MR belongs to Moore and TB belongs to Connery. No other Bond actor would've fit as well in those films as the ones who actually played Bond in them.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    If Moore were the right age, he could have put his own spin on it and done well, a bit like For Your Eyes Only. As it stands, in '89, both the film as written and Moore's age would have made the entire project a disaster.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    The Revenge aspecct of LTK would not have been pulled of as competantly as Dalton, if it was Moore. Not circa The Saint, The Persuaders, TMWTGG, North Sea Hijack, Fire Ice & Dynamite or Boat Trip. I could never take Moore seriously when he was trying to be serious, and he would've been way out of his depth in either of the Dalton films.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Agree with this. Moore can do the more ruthless parts of Bond as already discussed elsewhere. But he would have been far too old to carry it off realistically. Dalton did a brilliant performance in LTK.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Agree. Moore was a great bond, but not on Daltons level. I don't think anyone but Dalton could've pulled of LTK so well.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    The Revenge aspecct of LTK would not have been pulled of as competantly as Dalton, if it was Moore. Not circa The Saint, The Persuaders, TMWTGG, North Sea Hijack, Fire Ice & Dynamite or Boat Trip. I could never take Moore seriously when he was trying to be serious, and he would've been way out of his depth in either of the Dalton films.

    You haven't mentionned 'The Man Who Haunted Himself', IMO one of Sir Rog's best films. And I thought Moore was really bad-ass and more tough in films like North Sea Hijack and Wild Geese. And of course in TMWTGG he had many scenes of seriousness.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Agree. Dalton was what LTK needed, and Roger couldn't make it a film without 500 wisecracks.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Agree. After Dalton's performance in TLD, LTK was specifically written for his Bond. And if EON did lose their minds and decided they wanted the 61 year old Moore to star in such a violent and personal Bond film it wouldn't have been good for anything except laughs. Firstly because he would've been way too old and secondly it would've been too radical a change from Moore's established light-hearted character. I could possibly see Moore doing that kinda film 10 years earlier but as a previous poster said it would've been handled in a less serious manner.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I disagree with the statement that Roger Moore could not do revenge, look at FYEO and Northsea Hijack with Roger Moore and you´ll see him playing the less jovial person.

    That said: while TLD was written on the strengths of Roger Moore rather than Dalton, who was often seen struggling with the material, LTK was written on Dalton strengths. The movie was also troubled with large changes due to locationwork not being allowed, if I remember correctly they where busy with a chinese location. And the movie was somewhat rewritten to fit in with the Mexican locations. It still remains too Miami Vice for my taste and not as good as the tv show. So I would state that even TD wasn't served rightly with this movie.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I think Rog could have pulled it off but obvioulsy it would be different to Timbo's LTK, and if this had happend in 1989 then Rog's age would need to be addressed and big a part of the story, an ageing Bond out for revenge, I think it would have worked quite well, seeing as David Hedison was playing Felix, it would have added emotion as they had been in LALD together.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Just cant see Rog pulling off half of the key scenes here.
    Finding Della and Felix, the resignation scene, a lot of the scenes with Sanchez.

    To be fair though the Locque scene proves he could have nailed 'Compliments of Sharkey' and 'you earned it you keep it old buddy.'

    Not sure about the final death of Sanchez. I think a Rog one liner would have been required. Perhaps some sort of recyling of the Felix lighter gag from LALD or 'he certainly went out with a bang' etc etc?

    Conversley though can anyone imagine MR with Dalton? My first thought would be MR without Rog is heresy but the more I think about it the more it seems like a Daltonised MR would be cracking as they would axe stuff like the gondola, the pigeon and Jaws changing sides.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I can just imagine Timbo walking around MR as it is now looking absolutley bemused!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 068</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond's recent non-smoking phase puts a stain on Fleming's legacy.</b></font>
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I think Bond should smoke and drink a lot and enjoy all the finer things in life, it is a big part of the character.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    The non-smoking policy is only part of the watering down of Bond that's been going on since 1995.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    They should drop this PK crap. Everybody knows that smoking is bad for one´s health.
    But Brosnan is enjoying a cigar in DAD, perhaps as a tribute to Moore? That was in 2002, so I don´t know why it wasn´t ok in the three first PB movies.
    Craig is the only Bond that hasn´t had either a cigar or a cigarette yet.
  • 0iker00iker0
    edited April 2012 Posts: 501
    It might be true, but Bond is much more than smoking...
    Plus, I hate tobacco so I think it's all right...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 068</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond's recent non-smoking phase puts a stain on Fleming's legacy.</b></font>

    Absolutely. Tragic that Craig was prevented from lighting up at the card table in CR a la the iconic scenes that Sean and George both got on their debuts.

    I love how smoking is seen as the worst abomination known to man by these PC tossers yet they are quite happy with Bond killing people on a regular basis.
    If Bond cant smoke because he is 'a role model to kids' shouldnt we, as a society, question what role models we are presenting to our kids if drowning a bloke in a sink and shooting two unarmed men (all within the first 10 minutes) is prefectly fine in CR but all trace of Bonds gunmetal case filled with Morlands specials is erased from history?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    Agreed. Also, kids have to learn that what happens on screen, stays on screen. I'm sure they are exposed to a lot worse than what the Bonds have to offer. And besides, those who easily pick up smoking from watching 'role models' do it, will end up with the habit sooner or later. Lastly, are those kids prohibited from watching DN or OHMSS? The very introduction of 007 in those films occurs during a close-up of Bond lighting one up.
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