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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    edited April 2012 Posts: 5,634
    I think 'alienated' is too strong a word. Some may have been disgruntled or took issue with such a thing, but then again some would of welcomed Mr Spielberg getting involved in a Bond project, thought it a fantastic idea etc

    I read numerous times, I recall, muddled accounts of Spielberg being approached about overseeing a Bond release at the time in question, but he either declined the invitation or they went after someone else. I'm in two minds whether I would of wanted to see him chair a Bond movie. Disagree with thesis
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    I can't stand 3D. It doesn't work for me (I have a lazy eye that needs heavy corrective lenses).

    IMAX on the other hand.. I could see IMAX expanding, and would embrace it with open arms. Supposedly the new Batman has over ONE HOUR of IMAX footage. WOW.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Will keep this open a little while longer. ;-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 085</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond's staged death in YOLT didn't serve the story in any way.</b></font>
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    085- Agree, but I like the staged death anyway.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited April 2012 Posts: 4,813
    Debate 085-
    Hmmm I never considered this before! Now that it's brought to my attention, you're right--- they sure could have ran with the idea-- but as it is in YOLT, it didn't really add much.

    Perhaps they could have maybe used such an idea for OHMSS instead! Not just because of the new actor (as a wink to the audience), but because Bond just destroyed Blofeld's Volcano Lair-- and made a critical strike to S.P.E.C.T.R.E.

    But since they did use this plot in YOLT, they should have definitely ran with it-- at the very least have Bond use the disguise way earlier in the film. I mean, they had his freaking photograph in the obituaries, yet he shows up at Osato looking like he always does-- any moron who happened to look at the paper would have known it was BOND.
    Come to think of it.... why have his photograph in the paper anyway? I mean yeah, I know as far as the public is concerned, James Bond was just a Naval Commander- but still why advertize his face all over?

    *edit-- damn I just realized if they used that plot device in OHMSS, there would be no reason to call the last movie 'You Only Live Twice'. lol nevermind :-?
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Disagree. YOLT gets a "get out of jail free" pass as far as plot goes--since a lot of it doesn't make sense anyway. It's all about the spectacle. YOLT is a thrill to watch, despite some plot shortcomings. Much like how Bambi & Thumper or Plenty o'Toole don't serve DAF's plot--yet they are in the film for the eye candy.

  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    in a word yes, so will agree with thesis. As daft as this may sound? I have only just realised there are two fake deaths for the PTS on TB and YOLT! 8-}
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    RogueAgent wrote:
    in a word yes, so will agree with thesis. As daft as this may sound? I have only just realised there are two fake deaths for the PTS on TB and YOLT! 8-}

    And really, DAF.

  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    echo wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    in a word yes, so will agree with thesis. As daft as this may sound? I have only just realised there are two fake deaths for the PTS on TB and YOLT! 8-}

    And really, DAF.

    ofcourse! I was just thinking in terms of consecutive movies.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Not enough, I think that is a fair enough point but it did use this element to a weak extent. More should have been made of it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2012 Posts: 6,387
    I didn't realize how many PTS present fake deaths: TB, YOLT, DAF, GE, DAD. Plus there's FRWL, which is more of a fake-out fake death.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 086</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>QoS's theatrical cut is too short.</b></font>
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    YES. QOS needs a directors cut desperately!
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    YES. QOS needs a directors cut desperately!

    Ditto

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    I wonder how much footage Forster shot. There are indications that he didn't shoot a lot--for example, the really weird cut from when Bond tracks Greene down in the desert and then throws him out of the Range Rover.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 086</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>QoS's theatrical cut is too short.</b></font>

    The QoS theatrical cut is not too short, it problem is its frantic editing and lazy storytelling hidden by said telling.
    As short as the movie is, it still does nothing to cover up its many flaws.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    There are certainly some sequences which are very hard to follow. What happens to M in the scene in Sienna when her bodyguard turns on her and Bond? One second she's there and the next she's disappeared. Totally incoherent.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Without a doubt! Fully agree with this thesis!
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    I agree. Absolutly.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It is short, but paces well and is always thrilling for me. It works for the film. Disagree.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    This thesis has a follow up thesis entitled "QOS was short because it was a poor choice of plot line from the start"
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    This thesis has a follow up thesis entitled "QOS was short because it was a poor choice of plot line from the start"

    The plot had more potential than most of the Bond films we've seen the last couple of decades. It was the writer's strike that hurt QOS. In a perfect world EON would've postponed it to maybe the summer of 2009 but when you've got a 200 million dollar film in the longest running film franchise in the history of cinema I'd imagine schedules are pretty important to keep.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    I think QoS was too short indeed. Its pacing is fine, given a certain mood I'm in occasionally, but it feels like there's a lot of unrealised potential in the film. Some scenes feel like there was more at one point but the essence was cut and we got the leftovers. Fortunately, I don't think of QoS as logic defying. In the end, the film makes sense. But I'm confident it would have been more enjoyable had we been given more. I would have liked to see the Fields scenes, for example, expanded. Also, the camera could have lingered more on various shots throughout the film, shots which are now reduced to mere flashes of under a second each. I think the film would still have worked well had we added a substantial amount of seconds to some shots. So, overall, I agree with the thesis.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    I feel like QOS didn't explore the issues is set out to do. The heart of the story is of two people consoling in one another the loss of a loved one. Bond for Vesper and Camille for her family. The film could have delve deeper into Bond's inner turmoil, but nearly brushed the surface. I thought with a director like Forster, they could have really dug into the psychology of Bond and his transformation, but surprisingly they didn't. Instead we get the whole eco-water/drought plot that feels forced into the story.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    It is, yet I shudder to think what they could have come up with for filler.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 087</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Orlov posed the biggest global threat of all the 80s villains.</b></font>
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    Orlov is a character in a great film. Definetly dangerous and a global threat to world peace. Wanted to conquer the world, not just wipe it out.

    Having said that, knowing what we do now and seeing how the world has played out in terms of technology, I'd say Zorin was a bigger threat in the long run.

    Therefore, imo, THESIS INCORRECT
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 087</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Orlov posed the biggest global threat of all the 80s villains.</b></font>

    Agree. That's why I consider OP not necessarily the best(I give that title to TLD) but certainly the most general audience pleasing of the 1980s Bond films. Orlov's WWIII plot sits solidly in the tradition of Goldfinger's Fort Knox plot, SPECTRE's TB nuclear weapons hijacking scheme, and the larger-than-life threats in the Lewis Gilbert Bond films of "the world is in trouble and only Bond can save us!" variety.

  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Never thought of it but yeah I agree.
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