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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited April 2012 Posts: 2,629
    Let's look at the others.

    Kristatos-sell an ATAC to the Soviets
    Zorin-nuke Fort Knox flood Silicon Valley for profits
    Whitaker/Koskov-Arms for opium
    Sanchez-Expand drug empire to Asia

    Let's eliminate FYEO, TLD and LTK as none of these would have had the long-lasting damage that OP would have had. Flooding Silicon Valley would have had environmental damage and mass casualties, but the damage done would have been limited to America. After a nuclear disaster with mass casualties, Orlov was banking on nuclear disarmenent talks to open the doors for Soviet invasion of all of Europe and possibly beyond.

    I agree with the thesis.
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    Kerim wrote:
    Flooding Silicon Valley would have had environmental damage and mass casualties, but the damage done would have been limited to America

    With Zorin Though, he wanted the microchip market. Think of everything that has that in it and it's impact on the world since 1985. The world runs on microchip and related technology from Silicon Valley (or at least the general ideas). That's hindsight though I guess and not in the spirit of the thesis
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I don't think he's the best 80s villian but he definetly had the most dangerous plan. agree
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Right on! This one is correct and it gives more strength to an already great film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    OP has one of the best villainous plans in the franchise, and boy does Berkoff deliver the exposition. Agree.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    Kerim wrote:
    Flooding Silicon Valley would have had environmental damage and mass casualties, but the damage done would have been limited to America

    With Zorin Though, he wanted the microchip market. Think of everything that has that in it and it's impact on the world since 1985. The world runs on microchip and related technology from Silicon Valley (or at least the general ideas). That's hindsight though I guess and not in the spirit of the thesis

    I would consider Microsoft too for example. Here's a company that monopolized the software market but is that necessarily a global threat? ;-)
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited April 2012 Posts: 4,520
    086. Wish the movie be 10 minutes longer. The movie cinematime is 106 minutes, Pall time is 102 and without the 6 minutes of credits mean the movie is 96 minutes on tv without comercials and 130 minutes with. The Mgm logo, Sony logo and gunbarrel at the end are not seen on tv (Because it is part of the end credits) and that not happend before CR. With CR the Mgm logo whas already canceld. That be something what mabey be something to do with the own problems, but not show the end gunbarrel is unforgivable.

    Whyle i stil think that some edits be made by choose to call some feelings, i wish there show more of the Airport a litle and the car chase be a bit longer.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2012 Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Signed_By_RogerMoore wrote:
    Kerim wrote:
    Flooding Silicon Valley would have had environmental damage and mass casualties, but the damage done would have been limited to America

    With Zorin Though, he wanted the microchip market. Think of everything that has that in it and it's impact on the world since 1985. The world runs on microchip and related technology from Silicon Valley (or at least the general ideas). That's hindsight though I guess and not in the spirit of the thesis

    I would consider Microsoft too for example. Here's a company that monopolized the software market but is that necessarily a global threat? ;-)

    Yeah its not like Zorins plan was to destroy all microchips and send us back to the stone age. Had he wiped out all of Americas electronics then it might have been on a par with Orlov as the US/Soviet balance would have been dangerously disrupted but as he just wanted to have a monoply it wouldnt make him much more dangerous than Bill Gates.

    The top 5 Bond villain plots in terms of threat to the world would be:

    1. MR - the plan is to eliminate all human life which even the largest nuclear conlfagration would be unlikely to do.
    2. TSWLM - edges it over YOLT as more modern - hence more devastating - weapons.
    3. YOLT
    4. OP - I rank it below TSWLM and YOLT as in those films we are minutes from Armageddon, whereas even if Orlov succeeds, there is still quite a long train events required for all out nuclear war.

    I'm really struggling for the 5th though.

    TB - Even if SPECTRE detonate one bomb in Central Park and one in Hyde Park what sort of casualties are we talking with bombs from that era? 500k? Maybe a million tops. Compared to MR these figures are laughable.

    OHMSS - Assuming the UN doesnt back down (which it does rather easily) then this has the same potential as MR. However Blofelds plan to kill off various different species means that it would never be allowed to get to the point where virus omega is introduced to the populace at large.

    DAF - WW states that Blofelds scheme is to award nuclear supremacy to the highest bidder. Not quite sure how he plans to do this, especially with such a feeble weapon which only has the ability to blow things up in a very local area. I cant see why the Soviet or US government would give up their arsenals under the threat of Blofelds satellite but god forbid the plot should be carefully thought out this is DAF after all.

    GE - The effect on the world of destroying a major financial centre should not be underestimated. It would cause a global financial meltdown, which whilst it might not lead to war would certainly, in Britain at least, cause untold misery and a possible breakdown of society. Also not sure how Alec plans to spend his ill gotten bank transfers as every currency will be practically worthless the morning after the GE detonates.

    DAD - Once the North cross the border the US are comitted to retaliation. As long as they can keep China out of it then this should be a fairly local scuffle but it has the potential to go off properly if the yanks and China start going at it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    You agree then, @TheWizardOfIce, concerning Orlov's plot posing the biggest threat of the 80s Bonds? ;-)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote:
    You agree then, @TheWizardOfIce, concerning Orlov's plot posing the biggest threat of the 80s Bonds? ;-)

    Yeah thats basically a yes from me.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Nope. Orlov's plan depended on a rather huge assumption, the call in the West for one-sided abolishment of nukes. Zorin was not only planning to kill millions (as Orlov), but taking over a complete and very important industry. And don't forget, it's not only the making of those microchips, but also all prototypes and plans for the (near) future. I think the impact on society and the economy would be gigantuous.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I'd agree with this thesis. As much as Zorins plan in AVTAK is a massive one on a global scale, Orlovs plan to explode an atomic bomb in western europe is on an end of the world scale.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    CommanderRoss wrote:
    Nope. Orlov's plan depended on a rather huge assumption, the call in the West for one-sided abolishment of nukes. Zorin was not only planning to kill millions (as Orlov), but taking over a complete and very important industry. And don't forget, it's not only the making of those microchips, but also all prototypes and plans for the (near) future. I think the impact on society and the economy would be gigantuous.

    But would the effects be as destructive as with Orlov's scheme? I presume that if Orlov had been successful, the results would have directly led to WWIII. I doubt Zorin's one-time catastrophe would have resulted in a global war.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Actually, I don't think Orlov's plan to start WWIII would have worked. It would have lead to chaos, but allthough many people in the streets would have cried out for disarmament, I don't think politicians would have done such. Remember, in those days, everyone in the west was scared shitless of the Soviets. The call would have been for safer weapons, yes, but not for one-sided disarmament.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Ofcourse he was a major threat! Russian General with a finger on the button! Agree
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2012 Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 088</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>All Bond films reflect on the socio-political affairs of their days.</b></font>
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2012 Posts: 15,718
    Disagree... not true for all the films, but for most.... but I once read that EON chose the films' plot on what preoccupied people the most.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    They are up to date on release for the times, but do not necessarily reflect the times they were set in with every movie. So disagree.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Agreed. I can't think of a single one that doesn't. The first 6 deal with either terror, the fear of world warfare, and foreshadow the communist threat to some degree. DAF reflects the moon-landing and Howard Hughes. LALD reflects blaxploitation. TMWTGG: the energy crisis. Spy: Russian-Western relations and disco. MR: Space Craze. FYEO, OP and TLD all deal with the Cold War. AVATK: the advent of Silicon Valley. LTK: War on Drugs. GE: The fallout of the end of the Soviet Union. TND: The age of big Media. TWINE: Oil. DAD: North Korean threat. CR: terrorism/post 9-11. QOS: Latin American Dictators/water issues.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    @JBFan626 sums it up well. I agree. :)
  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Agreed. I can't think of a single one that doesn't. The first 6 deal with either terror, the fear of world warfare, and foreshadow the communist threat to some degree. DAF reflects the moon-landing and Howard Hughes. LALD reflects blaxploitation. TMWTGG: the energy crisis. Spy: Russian-Western relations and disco. MR: Space Craze. FYEO, OP and TLD all deal with the Cold War. AVATK: the advent of Silicon Valley. LTK: War on Drugs. GE: The fallout of the end of the Soviet Union. TND: The age of big Media. TWINE: Oil. DAD: North Korean threat. CR: terrorism/post 9-11. QOS: Latin American Dictators/water issues.

    Yes, couldn't put it better. Bond's a geiger counter of our headlines.

  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    088- Not sure about all, but lot of them definetly.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited May 2012 Posts: 4,520
    At the time TMND predict the future. I think it whas very intresting story, in specialy because there is nothing changed in positive way.

    In my review about QOS i wrote that QOS is not about revenge on Vesper but about Bond & M. The last scene between M and Tanner
    (about Dominic Greene his death )
    settle movie. QOS be the start of new TMND style of movies.

    I think the biggest streng til Die Another Day always be ''not think about it to much and have fun''.




  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited May 2012 Posts: 2,629
    Most, if not all.

    DN- Launching rockets into space.
    FRWL - Cold War
    GF - Nuclear threat on Fort Knox
    TB - Nuclear threat in Caribean
    YOLT - Instigating war between USA and USSR.
    OHMSS - Psychadelic brainwashing
    DAF - Nuclear threat
    LALD - Drugs
    TMWTGG - Energy crisis
    TSWLM - Cold War opponents coming together for a greater cause
    MR- Space race
    FYEO, OP, AVTAK and TLD - Cold War
    LTK - Drugs
    GE - Post Cold War
    TND - Media Exploitation
    TWINE - Oil
    DAD - Seperation of the Koreas, genetics
    CR - Post 9/11 financing of terrorism
    QOS - Natural resources (oil and water)

    I agree with the thesis.

    Note: posted prior to reading JBFan's post.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Incidentally, I wonder how SF will do in this respect. Putting it differently, which problem of today will markedly shape out the story of our next film?
  • Signed_By_RogerMooreSigned_By_RogerMoore
    Posts: 643
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Incidentally, I wonder how SF will do in this respect. Putting it differently, which problem of today will markedly shape out the story of our next film?

    Don't about SF as such but possible problems in coming films could be:

    Arab Spring
    Banking Crisis
    Global Warming

    Just an idea
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited May 2012 Posts: 12,837
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Incidentally, I wonder how SF will do in this respect. Putting it differently, which problem of today will markedly shape out the story of our next film?

    M's past coming back to haunt her and everything, and with alot of politicians and goverment agents cast, maybe it will include something with corrupt politicians?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 089</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Without NSNA, OP would have made more money.</b></font>
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    THESIS 089

    I don't know... I wasn't around to see it but I was sort of under the impression that more people saw Bond movies that year than ever. I can't think of a single reason anybody would have seen just one of the two, unless they really hated Roger Moore. Not sure about this one- I wish I was around to see it!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Well NSNA was originally meant to go up against OP in the "Battle of the Bond's" but this never actually happened and the films were released at different times (although the name remained).

    Thinking about it I disagree with this thesis. OP made a fair amount of dosh as it was and is fondly regarded by many people (especially in the States - even The Simpsons have made not one but two references to it).

    Those who really couldn't stand RM as Bond would have stayed away from the film regardless.
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