The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Those who really couldn't stand RM

    I wasn't aware such people existed @-)
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Those who really couldn't stand RM

    I wasn't aware such people existed @-)

    Believe it or not there are. In fact a few months back I was watching OP last year on TV with a friend who'd also read some of Fleming's books - he really didn't like him. We got into an arguement :))
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Those who really couldn't stand RM

    I wasn't aware such people existed @-)

    They live in sin!

    accusing-preacher.jpg

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    @Dimi you never cease to amaze me with all the pics you post ! ;)
  • Posts: 12,526
    Disagree with the thesis. I went as a kid and i was aware NSNA was coming, but it was OP i wanted to see and enjoyed. Also went to see NSNA which was fun! But OP came out on top for me. Also as i recall? OP took more money at the BO too?
  • In the early 1980's, times were tough financially wwhat with the recession in the UK and USA. I don't think there was much disposable income to go to see two movies in the same period and I think the lure of seeing connery again was too much for people. I know it's impossible but what if Skyfall was released at the same time as a new unofficial Bond film with roger moore? People would be severely tempted (me included)

    It's a shame about Octopussy, one of the best films in the entire series and it's box office takings don't reflect this sadly

    Therefore, I agree with the thesis
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I doubt it as both films opened at separate times of the year. Maybe one could argue with the interest in both films that Octopussy and Never Say Never Again made more money as the public wanted to see which one was the better offering.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 089</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Without NSNA, OP would have made more money.</b></font>

    Disagree. OP was released in June and NSNA wasn't released until October, after OP had pretty much completed its theatrical run and both films were box-office hits although OP grossed more(deservedly so since it was the better of the 2 films).
  • Posts: 11,189
    When I watched NSNA I was actually quite suprised at how cheap it looked.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 501
    Thesis 88 totally agree as Kerim explains better than I would ever do:
    Kerim wrote:
    Most, if not all.

    DN- Launching rockets into space.
    FRWL - Cold War
    GF - Nuclear threat on Fort Knox
    TB - Nuclear threat in Caribean
    YOLT - Instigating war between USA and USSR.
    OHMSS - Psychadelic brainwashing
    DAF - Nuclear threat
    LALD - Drugs
    TMWTGG - Energy crisis
    TSWLM - Cold War opponents coming together for a greater cause
    MR- Space race
    FYEO, OP, AVTAK and TLD - Cold War
    LTK - Drugs
    GE - Post Cold War
    TND - Media Exploitation
    TWINE - Oil
    DAD - Seperation of the Koreas, genetics
    CR - Post 9/11 financing of terrorism
    QOS - Natural resources (oil and water)

    I agree with the thesis.

    Note: posted prior to reading JBFan's post.

    Thesis 89, not sure about that...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2012 Posts: 15,718
    BAIN123 wrote:
    When I watched NSNA I was actually quite suprised at how cheap it looked.

    They did have to pay Sean Connery's salary . :))
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    When I watched NSNA I was actually quite suprised at how cheap it looked.

    They did have to pay Sean Connery's salary . :))

    Touche :p
  • Posts: 7,653
    As a Bondfan I was always going to see both.

    I think for most people it was a matter of watching two James Bond movies in one year with Roger Moore & Sean Connery. That was a good year.

    I disagree.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Disagree. With the big Connery-Moore face off I'm sure the fans were equalized between the two Bond actors, and the whole box office fight brought attention to both individually and probably led to both Connery and Moore fans seeing both.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Those who really couldn't stand RM

    I wasn't aware such people existed @-)

    Like Mathis I'm gone such a short time and already forgotten... :|
  • Posts: 5,634
    James Bond fans had the best of both worlds in 1983 with the release of two Bond movies, even though one was actually an unofficial spoof, I suppose the same could be said for audiences back in 1967 if they went to see them

    Don't really agree with thesis, Octopussy did well on it's own, would the omission of Never Say Never Again have seen better takings?, I don't think so necessarily. I did have to think about this one for a moment but it's been summed up well enough in a previous answer, thesis seems incorrect again, wasn't the best year for Bond fare but Octopussy has the edge on it's rival in terms of entertainment if nothing else
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 090</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>A Guy Hamilton directed MR would have been inferior to Gilbert's film.</b></font>
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    It's very hard to tell without it having happened, though that isn't even an answer to the question.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Would Hamilton have been able to dial back the Jaws excesses? I'm unsure.
  • Posts: 4,762
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 090</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>A Guy Hamilton directed MR would have been inferior to Gilbert's film.</b></font>

    Probably so, because Moonraker has enough issues with plot line and goofy gags as it is, and knowing what Hamilton's style was, I doubt it would have been better. Besides, Gilbert's large-scale finale battles (YOLT and TSWLM) were his trademark best, and he helps the movie tremendously by putting in a big finale finish.
  • Posts: 1,497
    This question seems out of left field. Was Hamilton even considered? What about a Hamilton directed TSWLM?

    ...But to answer the question. As much as I love Hamilton, I think he would have lost his touch a bit by then. I think it shows by the time of LALD and Golden Gun. GF seems to be his high point. Though I will say this, the characters in MR aren't quite as memorable as others. Even Drax--he's a decent villain, but doesn't quite leave an impression. I think Guy Hamilton's emphasis on quirky characters would have improved MR. So what's my answer...hmmm, for me strong characters always trump impressive set-pieces. So I will <b>disagree</b> with said thesis.

    But can you imagine J.W. Pepper in space up there with Jaws?
  • Posts: 1,778
    A Guy Hamilton anything would've been inferior to whatever that came before or after him. Agree.
  • Posts: 12,526
    not too sure as too hard to tell?
  • Posts: 1,497
    How about this...would a Terrence Young directed GF be superior?
  • Posts: 1,082
    JBFan626 wrote:
    How about this...would a Terrence Young directed GF be superior?

    No way. And about the thesis, it's hard to tell. Gilbert and Hamilton are my two favorite Bond directors...But I'll say no, because Gilbert was the master of the epic OTT movies.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited May 2012 Posts: 4,520
    Yes/dificult.

    TMWTGG look like more on Lewis Gilbert his directed Yolt but with TSWLM til Octopussy the style look in general the same. Another direction/another way who whas started by the people who Gilbert be suport with and Saltzman no longer be credit as producer.

    Dificult because MR worse part are looking from Hamilton's GF (Music/endless discussions) and worse parts of his DAF (The music) and Lewis Gilbert Yolt (Th music/moon scene's). The Good things be taken from TSWLM (none moon scene's) and LALD/TMWTGG (Boat chase) and mabey a litle bit FRWL. The place with the snake scene it look like it have some DAF style and also because of Drax look be inspyred by Blofeld his costume's. Same you can say about GF inspyred the Drax scene's with the dog's (Goldfinger Golf scene) and those very art/old looking luxery houses we also known from TB and later also see in AVTAK. Last thing of course be that there take Shirley Bassey from GF and DAF.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 090</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>A Guy Hamilton directed MR would have been inferior to Gilbert's film.</b></font>

    Absolutely agree with this.
    Hamilton is the worst director of the Bond movies in my book. Actually, there is one other that just beats him. ;) Lee!
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 090</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>A Guy Hamilton directed MR would have been inferior to Gilbert's film.</b></font>

    Inferior might be too strong a word for me but I think it wouldn't have been as good. As stated above, Gilbert was the master of the epic Panavision big budget Bond film so he was the right directoral pick for MR just as Hamilton was the right directoral pick for GF.

  • Posts: 5,634
    Seeing as Hamilton's last Bond directorial job was Golden Gun, we simply don't know how Moonraker might have been, but LALD and Golden Gun under Hamilton's direction were standout films of the franchise, so who's to say Moonraker would of been 'inferior' if he had of managed a fourth release. Gilbert did do a good job of it though, but have to say no, as we simply wouldn't know without seeing, what could of been
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 091</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Renard's bullet-in-the-head issue was too reality defying for the Bond series.</b></font>
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