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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    As a woman, I respectfully disagree. Both Brosnan and Craig were and are very attractive and shown about the same way in the films I feel. Hmmm. I still remember fondly Brosnan taking a very quick shower in TND outside with Wai Lin. And Timothy Dalton kissing D'Abo on the ride at the carnival.

    The shot of Craig coming out of the water to me is interesting and fun ( a take on Dr. No obviously) but overall I say he is not strongly aimed towards a female audience more than other Bonds; not that I sense anyway.

    I just enjoy these films for many reasons, and the attractiveness of the Bond actor is a good one. ;) I don't want their portrayal to change, slanted more one way or the other in that regard.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    echo wrote:
    Ironically, DAD was directed by a gay man and CR by a straight man.

    Agree with the thesis.

    I did not know Tamahori was openly gay. Cross dressing incident, yes.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think Babs holds the reins over Dan's shirtless scenes, and I believe at the first press conference for Skyfall's reveal Dan looked towards her when someone mentioned a shirtless Bond in the film.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited June 2012 Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 114</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Craig Bonds aim at a more female audience than the Brosnans.</b></font>

    Yes and no. Craig's Bond comes off as more of an alpha male than Brosnan's Bond did but I can see that appealing to both men and women for different reasons. However, I think both the Craig and Brosnan films aim at a more female audience than the Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Dalton ones do.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I felt inclined to say Yes straight away, I was (trying not to) thinking of the scene where Craig comes out of the sea in Royale, all dripping wet and square faced, was that supposed to be in recognition of Honey Ryder again from Dr No ?, it was damn well bad enough with the awful Berry the time before, but they went again and did it, this time with Bond himself :-< , why can't they just leave the original scene alone and not try to replicate it time and again with embarrassing results

    There did seem to be quite a significant amount of 'physique focus' on Craig from what I can remember in his two releases, obviously Brosnan wasn't exactly Mr Olympia standards by the time he departed, but I think I remember seeing more shots of Craig's body than I did action, so any women watching may well have been thrilled enough, but it did little this end. Thesis seems accurate
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    I think that since Babs and Wilson are in charge, they have aimed more to female audience, or at least to open more the demographic target. Mr Cubby, rest in peace, was a sexist, misogynist dinosaur.
    So I disagree... certanly in CR they use more the body image of Craig, but I see Brosnan's Moneypenny and his Bond girls as examples of an open approach to the female public.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2012 Posts: 6,288
    0013 wrote:
    Mr Cubby, rest in peace, was a sexist, misogynist dinosaur.

    I'm not sure he was...he had powerful women in his own family.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    echo wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    Mr Cubby, rest in peace, was a sexist, misogynist dinosaur.

    I'm not sure he was...he had powerful women in his own family.
    Many misogynists have..

    Anyway, no, I don't think the Craig films are more aimed at a female audience. DC plays a more physical Bond. He's far more believable in his fighting then Brosnan was, but that also means that when he takes his shirt off, he's got a more muscular body. We did see Brosnan in similar circumstances (GE, swimming and then 'fighting' with Famke Jansen, showering with Wai Lin) but you don't see anyone talking about that.

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Debate 014: Disagree- I wouldn't say that one aimed more to the female audience than the other, so much as Brosnan's Bond and Craig's Bond are two sides of the same coin. What I mean is, they BOTH appeal to women, but for different reasons. Brosnan was a ladies man, and classically good looking, while Craig is more rugged and tough (which makes him handsome in a different way). I don't think one tried harder than the other. As for Craig's 'shorts', I think that convinced a million guys to hit the gym more than anything else!! (myself included)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2012 Posts: 6,288
    CommanderRoss wrote:
    echo wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    Mr Cubby, rest in peace, was a sexist, misogynist dinosaur.

    I'm not sure he was...he had powerful women in his own family.
    Many misogynists have..

    But if he were truly a misogynist, he would have put MGW solely in charge, not MGW and Babs.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 115</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Krest's exploding head was too OTT for a Bond film.</b></font>
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    I wouldn't say OTT, rather than too gory.

    Kananga's exploding head in LALD was too OTT because it looked so fake.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    I don't think it was OTT, as in real-life such situation would have the same effect on Krest's head. Kananga's exploding head, that was OTT.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Not over the top, but very bloody. It seems out of place, but it shows Sanchez's malevolent nature really well. I'm glad it was put in.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    It served a purpose with Krest blowing his top. O:-)
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    It showed how brutal and dangerous Sanchez was.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited June 2012 Posts: 3,494
    In comparison to OHMSS when the SPECTRE henchman landed in the snow blower, or even some of the harpoon shots in Thunderball, this scene was not OTT. LTK features lots of gory kills between Bond and Sanchez, which is just one of many things I love about the film.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Are we talking about the idea of a guy blowing up like that or the execution? Because the death was AWESOME, but the effects were a tad cheesy (nothing like LALD though.... ugh)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I have no problem with this scene of the idea of it. It's not we haven't seen Bond villains do this type of thing before.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    I don't think it was OTT? Call me twisted? But i thought it was pretty humerous! But obviously not for Krest! Disagree on this one. :))
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    @echo perhaps, but most of the times mysogenists do make an exception when it comes to their own blood. Mind you though, I'm not that familliar with Cubby to comment on him at all, perhaps he was, perhaps he wasn't.

    On the thesis 115, negative. It fits Sanches's brutality, and if there's one thing I like about the film, is the way Bond manages to win S' trust, and at the same time eliminating Krest.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Maybe, even though License to Kill was aimed at more mature teenagers and had a level of violence unheard of in the series before 1989. When I first got a copy on VHS many years ago, LTK was cut to ribbons, or heavily edited, as was the scene of Milton Krest in the decompression chamber, i.e. there was no head explosion, we didn't get to see it, just the face of Sanchez during the meantime, then the glass splattered with blood thereafter, but on the DVD version uncut a few years ago we got the scene as it was intended along with other little bits such as the savage attack on Leiter and Dario in the cocaine grinder and Sanchez being torched at the finale. Maybe thesis was right
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    T-115 Disagree. There are a lot of things more over the top than that in Bond films. Krest demise was more brutal than OTT.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 116</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Of all the Bond films, OHMSS built most fan enthusiasm after its release.</b></font>
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited June 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Agree. I wasn't around back then, but I think (judgin from what I've read) it had sort of a negative reception thanks to the lack of Connery, but now it's become sort of a fan favourite.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    Agree. I'd say it's also true for LTK.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    Agree. It's still the most underrated Bond film.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited June 2012 Posts: 12,837
    echo wrote:
    It's still the most underrated Bond film.

    http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee321/Spankyps3/licence-to-kill.jpg

    Remember the MGM copyright thingy, please.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 116</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Of all the Bond films, OHMSS built most fan enthusiasm after its release.</b></font>

    If I'm reading the thesis right, it means that OHMSS didn't have much enthusiasm upon release, but did later on from fans, and built the most post-release enthusiasm among all the titles.

    Yeah, I'd probably say so. I might even throw in Moonraker. It did very well at the box office at the time. But didn't get the reviews and was thought of as the blot of the series by many for years after--"Bond goes into space!". But it seems it's regaining appreciation again.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Again, this one is true, though with another actor as Bond it could have been thought more of at the time of release, I feel.
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