The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Interesting, @RogueAgent. Why not in the Craig era? Just curious. ;-)

    Well? DC as we all know has now completed 3 films of his tenure. I just feel that DC's Bond should take care of the Quantum organisation as opposed to a resurgent SPECTRE!

    I think a new Bond in the future can deal with Blofeld should he return? However? You do not want to see him in the debut outing of the New Bond. But this is only my humble view, how about you? What do you think? And who would you have play him?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 24,169
    I agree about the debut film for a new Bond. We need that film to get the new actor firmly established in the part. A villain who drains too much attention from said actor, can only sabotage the debut I think. Blofeld would certainly be a big thing, even for casual fans, pretty much like the Joker in the Batman franchise. The impact may be slightly less but there would be some impact nonetheless.

    Who to play him? To be honest, I don't know. I'm gravitating towards the Fleming version (and MCClory's, lest I be threatened with a lawsuit by the man's ghost), which is quite unlike the bald dude with the scar. So, I suppose I don't quite know who could do it. I could see Jason Isaacs, the underrated Michael Wincott and Christoph Waltz in the role though. They have a commanding presence I think.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Blofeld shouldn't return with SPECTRE, especially if they want to continue with Quantum. But as a solo recurring villian, that I would love.
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 3,494
    I would be very happy not to see Blofeld return at all, he belongs in a different era. Let's see a new supervillain at the head of QUANTUM. They could do all the same things with a fresh approach to differentiate the two organizations.
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I agree about the debut film for a new Bond. We need that film to get the new actor firmly established in the part. A villain who drains too much attention from said actor, can only sabotage the debut I think. Blofeld would certainly be a big thing, even for casual fans, pretty much like the Joker in the Batman franchise. The impact may be slightly less but there would be some impact nonetheless.

    Who to play him? To be honest, I don't know. I'm gravitating towards the Fleming version (and MCClory's, lest I be threatened with a lawsuit by the man's ghost), which is quite unlike the bald dude with the scar. So, I suppose I don't quite know who could do it. I could see Jason Isaacs, the underrated Michael Wincott and Christoph Waltz in the role though. They have a commanding presence I think.

    Great call on Jason Isaacs! Though he was brilliant as the villain in "The Patriot". Have to say DD? We may have gone off topic?! ;) lol!
  • Is Isaacs the same guy who killed Gibson's sons that he killed in the end? He was a great villain in the movie, I agree with that.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ^SPOILERS!
  • Posts: 12,526
    Is Isaacs the same guy who killed Gibson's sons that he killed in the end? He was a great villain in the movie, I agree with that.

    That would be telling? ;) Just means you will have to watch a great movie again and then look at the credits. :D
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 3,494
    You suck ;)

    Yes, same guy. Too lazy to look it up.
  • Posts: 12,526
    You suck ;)

    Yes, same guy. Too lazy to look it up.

    :)) Thank you!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2012 Posts: 6,287
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 131</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Blofeld's fate was left ambiguous after DAF because they didn't know if they would still be allowed to use him for future films.</b></font>

    I've always wondered this. In 1971 they likely had two options: (1) kill Blofeld off definitively or (2) leave his death open-ended in case they determined that they had the rights to Blofeld.

    Did Eon think they had the rights to Blofeld in 1971? Clearly they thought they did in 1967 and 1969.

    Then we had standalone villains in 1973 and 1974, and eventually in 1977 (which is when a lot of Broccoli-McClory litigation was happening).

    Has it ever been discussed in the Broccoli or McClory autobiographies?

    We are in a different legal world these days. If McClory had an arguable claim to Blofeld in the '60s but we had an '00s litigation mindset (restraining orders), we probably wouldn't have gotten Blofeld in YOLT, OHMSS, and DAF! Frightening to contemplate.
  • Posts: 4,762
    I don't know, Blofeld's supposed death has always puzzled me. First of all, there's the whole debate about whether or not it is actually Blofeld in the PTS, especially when you consider the line of dialogue that was removed from the PTS that would have otherwise fully identified him as Blofeld. Given that, then if it is not ol' Ernst in FYEO, then that means we're left up to our own decision as to if he died in DAF or not. If it is Blofeld in FYEO, then yes, it is a safe bet to say that he died, considering that chimney is quite tall and he was already crippled to begin with. As for the legal matters at hand then, I've got no idea, I don't know really anything legally regarding the Bond movies because it bores me and I don't care, hahahaha.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    I wonder: would Wint and Kidd have executed that final attempt on Bond and Tiff without instructions from Blofeld? Were they merely on a personal revenge mission?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I wonder: would Wint and Kidd have executed that final attempt on Bond and Tiff without instructions from Blofeld? Were they merely on a personal revenge mission?
    Hmmm...very good point!
  • Posts: 4,762
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I wonder: would Wint and Kidd have executed that final attempt on Bond and Tiff without instructions from Blofeld? Were they merely on a personal revenge mission?

    Oh wow, that's an awesome question! Now I'm extremely curious to find any old DAF scripts and such, hahaha. It might be like Tee Hee in LALD or Nick Nack in TMWTGG- their bosses are clearly dead and finished, but they would like their revenge for 007 ruining their chances at more wealth from the drugs in Tee Hee's case, and for destroying the luxurious island in Nick Nack's case. Wint and Kidd might have attempted revenge for ruining their chances at hauling in lots of cash from the big laser satellite blackmail scheme. However, if they had already been paid their lot before everything went down, especially because they had killed off everyone involved in the pipeline, then it could be that Ernst survived and issued a final attack strategy. Still though, assuming that not a lot of time passed between when the oil rig blew up and Bond and Tiffany boarded Willard Whyte's cruise ship, then that was a speedy recovery!
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 131</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Blofeld's fate was left ambiguous after DAF because they didn't know if they would still be allowed to use him for future films.</b></font>

    Interestingly enough, Tom Mankiewicz says on the commentary for the Superman II: Donner cut DVD that they could never kill Blofeld like they could never kill Lex Luthor. I think EON had every intention of Blofeld and SPECTRE eventually returning and were blindsighted by McClory's lawsuit when TSWLM went into pre-production.

  • DarthDimi wrote:
    I wonder: would Wint and Kidd have executed that final attempt on Bond and Tiff without instructions from Blofeld? Were they merely on a personal revenge mission?

    That's exactly what makes me think Blofeld didn't die in that lame attempt on the oil rig, maybe crippled like we see in FYEO (probably happened if say he leaped from the baffle sub), but not dead. Wint and Kidd were professional hit men, they weren't going to do anything without orders and payment. Sure, their professional pride may have been wounded by Bond's numerous escapes from their planned demise for him, but there really wasn't anything else in it for them. Why take a chance next time Bond gets them (obviously he did) instead? They knew by then how tough he was. I say Blofeld gave them orders to kill him and Tiffany and paid for it, the bigger question is did he give the orders before the oil rig attack, or afterwards? We may never know the answer and given Mankiewicz's script, he may not have either.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,249
    For me it's very clear Blofeld survived the rig-death-attempt and indeed orderend Wint and Kidd to kill Tiffany and Bond. As clear as it is Blofeld himself in the wheelchair commanding Bond's helicopter. They purposfully didn't use his name because of the lawsuits (I think) but found reason enough in those to kill him off.

    I don't think any old bold, scarred pussy toting cripple would attempt to kill of a secret agent just because he felt the urge to do so.
  • Posts: 5,634
    But would it be so ambiguous to the casual viewer?. Few would expect Blofeld to survive that attack on the Oil Rig at the end of diamonds, and trapped in his escape boat suspended above all the mayhem, as it crashes into the burning building, few would expect him to survive such an ordeal. More ambiguous for me, would be the start of For Your Eyes Only, as it is never stated that the guy was indeed Blofeld, and as stated before, I wouldn't have expected to him to survive after '71, although we never actually saw any death, just an expected demise. - Poor way for such an iconic figure of the James Bond series (if indeed it was him) to go, being dropped down an incinerator stack while Moore has a poor moment of humor,- on an otherwise straight faced adventure for him, I never liked that sequence, just spoiled an otherwise serious film that year. Thesis seems correct though
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 132</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Fields' offscreen death reduced its dramatic impact.</b></font>
  • Posts: 5,634
    They should never have duplicated the event from Goldfinger to begin with, instead of death by paint, it was oil this time. Eaton received Iconic status for that, and they go and ruin it with a silly remake of it with Arterton - not pleased!

    I didn't care what happened to the character either, she was on screen far too briefly as it was. But, Yes, if the killing had been witnessed, it would of had greater impact on the viewer, there's almost an apathy of her predicament, when we only see the aftermath. It would of fared better if we had seen the dastardly deed carried out, so Thesis seems accurate. Never liked the scene in question though, it should never have been re-attempted
  • Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 132</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Fields' offscreen death reduced its dramatic impact.</b></font>

    Fields whole role in QoS was bever too clear for me, as an agent she was badly trained and her death was reduced to nothing due to the absurd demise of Mathis which had a too large WTF level to be really bothered with the Field character.

    As I said before QoS would have been better served with a decent script to begin with. The deaths of allies in this fragmented story leave not the required impression behind, but one of frustration.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2012 Posts: 6,287
    Agree.

    Not a fan of this particular homage. Some things in the franchise shouldn't be tinkered with--same thing as with the attempts to recreate Andress coming out of the ocean.

    It's also executed (pardon the pun) poorly. Compare if we had seen a final frightening shot of Fields alive a la Della in LTK.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    I agree. I didn't care for the homage, either, and she was nothing more than someone Bond could bed. She makes threats that Bond laughs off, he has sex with her, and takes her to a party where she trips Elvis and dies shortly thereafter. She was incredibly pointless, thus giving her death the same reaction from me.
  • Posts: 5,634
    I hope Bardem's Villain (in Skyfall) isn't some evil boss of a candy manufacturer, and we find Harris or Marlohe on a bed covered in Cake sprinkles or Dessert toppings..
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    I hope Bardem's Villain (in Skyfall) isn't some evil boss of a candy manufacturer, and we find Harris or Marlohe on a bed covered in Cake sprinkles or Dessert toppings..

    Harris or Marlohe, nude, covered in sprinkles and toppings? One can only HOPE that he is involved in the candy business.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited July 2012 Posts: 4,514
    Re: 132 Fields' offscreen death reduced its dramatic impact.

    I disagree. It have more impact that we don't see who murder Fields. It it also part of the naief M and there whant give us the same feeling as Bond. Bond say he never left, but he did a couple of times in QOS and atleast twice in CR.
  • Posts: 165
    Huh? What's the alternative? Watching her get drown alive in oil? Secondary character or not, that's a guesome way to go and a scene like that would be more befitting of a slasher flick than a Bond film.

    I don't remember seeing Masterson being drown in gold either. Since her death is offscreen as well, I suppose we can say that same thing about Goldfinger?
  • Posts: 5,634
    Masterson died of skin suffocation, she wasn't drowned so to speak

    Yes, we can apply this equally to the Goldfinger death also, same as with Della Churchill in LTK, and any other scenario with Bond girls you may think of along these lines
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2012 Posts: 8,216
    I don't think it was the fact that it was offscreen that reduced its impact, it was more because it shoehorned in an homage in such an awkward fashion. If Bond had found her hanging from her ceiling via a rope, it would have been much more effective, but it probably would have been too gruesome.

    So disagree.
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