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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,334
    @Darth that is at least the funniest foreword to a thesis I've read in ages!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    CommanderRoss wrote:
    @Darth that is at least the funniest foreword to a thesis I've read in ages!
    I agree. One spunky lady must have written this, from what I can deduce from the rest of the text as well. She even applied statistics to the realm of Bond girls. ;-)
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Did Goodhead have a masculine side, the only side I saw, was that of a block of wood, totally devoid of character. At least Bach showed a bit more on screen and was the more masculine of the two, actually was plausible in her role, but not overly much. Solitaire was the epitome of femininity, all woman, and Ekland also did well, even though a bit too clumsy and scatter brained. Thesis accurate for sure
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 134</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Kamal Khan's interest in Octopussy was strictly professional, nothing romantic or sexual.</b></font>
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    Agree with the thesis. No sexual tension. Khan thinks himself superior and even though he's respectful on her turf, he doesn't like being told no by her and probably is the type who thinks the man should always be in charge. Just my take.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Agree with this thesis. In the end, all he wanted out of her anyway was his jewelry, nothing more, nothing less. He didn't care if she blew up at the airbase in Germany along with everyone else.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Agreed. Khan was a bit of a stiff and wasn't sure how to use it to his full advantage.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    That would of been some unsavory relationship though, read Moore and Roberts in the subsequent release. Khan was strictly observing Adams for his own purposes, there was no love interest apparent for sure. Thesis correct. I thought shooting out the train window as he thought he saw someone on the outside while Octopussy was enjoying a quiet massage was a bit extreme, maybe it's just me. I mean there's ways to do things, and ways not to
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Khan always seemed to treat her in a gentle way. I thought it might have added an extra layer of drama had Khan and 8Pussy been seriously involved, with Bond interfering and Khan, as a result, trapping 8Pussy in the circus explosion plan.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Agree. He was purely in it for the money and wealth. As soon as she became a potential problem to him? He looked to kill her off!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    Agree with the thesis. Khan seemed to stiff, always wanting to assure his superiority rather than engage with Octopussy.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 134</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Kamal Khan's interest in Octopussy was strictly professional, nothing romantic or sexual.</b></font>

    Agreed. My partner-in-crime Miss Smythe only had eyes for Mr. Bond. As for me, I always preferred her right-hand woman, my lovely assistant Magda . ;)

    Check out my profile pic.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    While he was perhaps interested in a monetary way in Octopussy and her interest in James Bond annyed him a lot and that was not due to monetary reasons. I always suspected that he saw her as his property while he allowed her actions which he could cut short when he wanted. There was no equality but certainly a possesive side to their relation from Khan's viewpoint.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    Agree, although he did like repeating the name "Octopussy."
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I wish we had seen more of Penelope Smallbone in that release, she would of made a good Moneypenny after Lois Maxwell's retirement in 1985 maybe
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    I wish we had seen more of Penelope Smallbone in that release, she would of made a good Moneypenny after Lois Maxwell's retirement in 1985 maybe

    I'm puzzled as to how this has anything to do with the topic of discussion...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 135</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Aki and Kissy should have been one and the same character.</b></font>
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    THESIS 135

    Yeah I'd pretty much agree with this one-- in fact I'd even take it a step further and suggest that Aki got a similar disguise as Bond (and keep both actresses!)
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Pretty much agree with this thesis. Not much more to say really? lol!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,387
    Disagree. Aki's death is one of the high dramatic points of the film.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Smallbone was in Octopussy, a movie in question during last thesis, there is the relevance. I don't really know I how I feel about the latest, I don't mind having two Bond girls in You Only Live Twice, the poisoning scene works well, and I would of liked to have seen her continue, pity they killed her off, but the Kissy replacement also did well. I'm going to disagree with this, having two girls that year did no harm at all

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    135: I agree, it may have made that one character more memorable, for starters.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,334
    I agree, if only becouse I liked Aki a lot more then Kissy. I found the latter boring, wereas Aki has her own personality.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2012 Posts: 6,387
    Aki was a much better/more engaging character than Kissy. She was a good and appealing agent, saving Bond's life several times. The actress (Akiko) was initially cast as Kissy.

    Apparently, the producers realized the other (eventual Kissy) actress' acting limitations and were going to fire her, but she was going to commit suicide because of the shame, so instead of firing her (and here you see Broccoli/Saltzman's kindness) they switched the roles so that she had the less demanding role.

    I do wonder, if Aki and Kissy were one, whether the actress Akiko would have given the second half more spark, as she did the first. And maybe the movie as a whole would have been stronger.

    So upon further reflection, I change my vote and agree.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    The only time I ever liked Connery going Japanese was in 'Rising Sun' a few years ago, much more fun than You Only Live Twice. I was wondering, albeit briefly, if Chinese girls give you 'very best duck', then what is the Japanese equivalent ?

    In any event, lots to do today. Play nice..
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,334
    Very best sushi, of course.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 24,257
    @Baltimore_007, I love Rising Sun! Great film with Connery's character oozing authority. When he puts the condescending bodyguard to shame, I geek out. Fascinating view into the Japanese culture as well.

    I myself agree with the thesis. I think Aki could have been given more to do, whereas Kissy was fiercely underused, which couldn't have been resolved anyway. She was, after all, introduced right before the third act and in that third act, our focus shifts to Blofeld anyway. Kissy takes third or fourth place in every scene she's in. She's never in first or even second place, rendering her character, unfortunately, to screen filler. Also, the deciding part her novel equivalent plays in Bond's future, is obviously absent from this film.

    As to Aki being given a dramatic moment, i.e. her death, I only slightly agree. Its dramatic effect, while powerful the minute it happens, carries little weight into the remainder of the film. The very next scene, she's gone, forgotten, out of our minds and out of our hearts. The character has vaporized, and so has her sad demise. No quest for vengeance, not even a tiny bit of sadness, not even a bit of respect as Bond quickly tries to bed his new score.

    We know that Bond has never been about perpetual grief over a girl's death, a few notable exceptions not withstanding, but in YOLT a single cut between two scenes suffices to coldly trade one bird for another, whose only advantage over the first one is that she's still alive - basically. And so here's why I'd rather have one girl who lives than one girl who dies and one who lives: the death of the first hardly pays off and the one who lives is squeezed in some empty frame space whilst having nothing if not a painfully minor contribution to the film.

    Just my two cents. Debate is welcome. ;-)
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 135</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Aki and Kissy should have been one and the same character.</b></font>

    Totally disagree. For one, they look very different and besides, Wakabayashi can't touch Mie Hama in the looks department. Hama was known as the "Brigitte Bardot" of Japan. If ever a perfect woman lived, it is Mie Hama. Two, Kissy was chosen because Aki would have been a stranger on her island and Bond needed that extra special cover. Besides, two girls for Bond are better than one ;)
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 135</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Aki and Kissy should have been one and the same character.</b></font>

    Disagree. It's never really bothered me. In fact, it helps add to YOLT's uniqueness in the series in the fact that the "sacrificial lamb" Bond girl of the film actually has a bigger role than the girl who ends the film with Bond the traditional way.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    DarthDimi wrote:
    @Baltimore_007, I love Rising Sun! Great film with Connery's character oozing authority. When he puts the condescending bodyguard to shame, I geek out. Fascinating view into the Japanese culture as well.

    I myself agree with the thesis. I think Aki could have been given more to do, whereas Kissy was fiercely underused, which couldn't have been resolved anyway. She was, after all, introduced right before the third act and in that third act, our focus shifts to Blofeld anyway. Kissy takes third or fourth place in every scene she's in. She's never in first or even second place, rendering her character, unfortunately, to screen filler. Also, the deciding part her novel equivalent plays in Bond's future, is obviously absent from this film.

    As to Aki being given a dramatic moment, i.e. her death, I only slightly agree. Its dramatic effect, while powerful the minute it happens, carries little weight into the remainder of the film. The very next scene, she's gone, forgotten, out of our minds and out of our hearts. The character has vaporized, and so has her sad demise. No quest for vengeance, not even a tiny bit of sadness, not even a bit of respect as Bond quickly tries to bed his new score.

    We know that Bond has never been about perpetual grief over a girl's death, a few notable exceptions not withstanding, but in YOLT a single cut between two scenes suffices to coldly trade one bird for another, whose only advantage over the first one is that she's still alive - basically. And so here's why I'd rather have one girl who lives than one girl who dies and one who lives: the death of the first hardly pays off and the one who lives is squeezed in some empty frame space whilst having nothing if not a painfully minor contribution to the film.

    Just my two cents. Debate is welcome. ;-)

    Well said Dimi! It leaves an uneasy feeling for me. Either Aki dies, thus Bond mourns* or Aki lives, and they get to sail off in their lifeboat, happy ever after.

    (I like the way Bond reacts to Aki’s poising. Subtle.)

    Agreed


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