The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Stromberg, yes I think so.

    Drax, no. Because he was created by Fleming and I don't think they'd use the novel title without using the villain's name, even if the film is vastly different to the book.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 141</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had it not been for those court restrictions, Stromberg and Drax could and would have been Blofeld.</b></font>

    Stromberg, yes. As for Drax, I'm not so sure. I read somewhere that Stromberg was initially going to be Blofeld and that Blofeld was going to escape alive at the end of TSWLM. Then, Bond would finally eliminate him in the PTS of the next film which, per TSWLM's end credits, was to have been FYEO(not too dissimilar to what actually happened with the FYEO PTS in reality).

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2012 Posts: 6,287
    An interesting question.

    Stromberg was Blofeld (weren't references to "Number One" cut from the script?) until lawsuit-related changes were made.

    Drax doesn't retain a lot of the characteristics that he had in the novel (notably, he isn't German--and in a way, Kurt Jurgens would have been a better choice for Drax.) In his national origin, Lonsdale is miscast.

    I would have preferred that the film MR be a Blofeld scheme, saving Drax for later when the series became serious again, perhaps as early as FYEO.

    On balance, I agree with the thesis.
  • Stromberg yes. Obviously they wanted to kill off Blofeld in, unlike DAF, a convincing fashion. Drax, no, I don't see that.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    The film version of Drax seems more like Blofeld than his novel counterpart to me.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Samuel001 wrote:
    The film version of Drax seems more like Blofeld than his novel counterpart to me.

    When I read Moonraker, I pictured Drax as in the film, but with red hair. Haha.

    I feel as though Drax was definitely Blofeld to be. In fact, I'd go as far to say that fans would find the space sequence more acceptable IF it had been Blofeld.

    More acceptable, not accepted. It's still a joke.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,249
    Stromberg yes, Drax no. Drax is the character from the book. I just wish they hadn't made him in a Blofeld look alike. The story was done a lot better in GE.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 142</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond should have run a real life obstacle course after being re-installed in DAD, instead of handling the VR adventure.</b></font>
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 142</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond should have run a real life obstacle course after being re-installed in DAD, instead of handling the VR adventure.</b></font>
    I actually like that scene, one of the few I feel that way for. It is cool to see Bond shoot out enemies and then slip up. Disagree.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 12,837
    I'll agree, sort of.

    How I would've done it is exactly the same as in the film, but it's a whole fake scenario, with people pretending, etc. That way it does seem real to the audience (which Bond running through an obstacle course wouldn't), but it doesn't have stupid sci fi stuff. Q can walk through a door instead of appearing out of thin air.

    So yeah, keep the VR scene, but make it a fake scenario with actors so it still seems real. A real obstacle course is just a bit boring.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    A real life obstacle course would have been far better but it would also make the rest of the film appear even more far fetched than it already is.
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 142</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond should have run a real life obstacle course after being re-installed in DAD, instead of handling the VR adventure.</b></font>

    Disagree. Although it would have been fun? With all the simulators around at the time........etc? It would most like ly seem old hat to alot of people? And they like to stay a little ahead of what's possible.
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 142</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond should have run a real life obstacle course after being re-installed in DAD, instead of handling the VR adventure.</b></font>

    I mostly agree. That VR could be a useful tool, but after 2 years of physical and mental torture, wouldn't it be logical to think he'd be very out of shape? Looks like they are taking a different approach with Craig in the new one. Perhaps they realized they could do the concept better?

    The VR should have stayed in that one scene for even more obvious reasons, and whoever wrote it back in should be arrested- for murdering and butchering the Moneypenny character beyond recognition. Maybe M should write her epitaph too.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 142</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond should have run a real life obstacle course after being re-installed in DAD, instead of handling the VR adventure.</b></font>

    Only if there was a giant squid at the end. ;)

    I never liked the VR obstacle course, so agree with the thesis.

    However, I like that they set up Moneypenny to finally "get" her passionate kiss, and that it was at the end of that timeline (even if it was VR). It probably would have worked better as the actual end of the movie, somehow--Bond ending up with Moneypenny, not Jinx.
  • Posts: 5,634
    I don't mind (any) Bond flirting with Moneypenny and vice versa but I never felt the need for an actual relationship. And how could Brosnan have run an obstacle course in Die Another Day ?, the last I saw of him, the only run he could make, was for nachos..

    I like the virtual reality experience in the film, was a neat little bit that took some by surprise the first time you see it, you don't realize at first it's only a game and not a real attack. Thesis is incorrect..

    Heh, Brosnan (as James Bond) in 2002, run an obstacle course... that would of been worth the price of admittance on it's own
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 142</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond should have run a real life obstacle course after being re-installed in DAD, instead of handling the VR adventure.</b></font>

    I think both should've been done personally. VR to test his gun shooting skills (never waste a bullet!) and the obstacle course to test his physicality.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 142</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond should have run a real life obstacle course after being re-installed in DAD, instead of handling the VR adventure.</b></font>

    Nah. That was actually a rather well done scene I think.
  • I don't have a problem with the first VR scene, just the second one.
  • Posts: 5,634
    I think maybe they were just trying to go one better than the previous ending in The World Is Not Enough as in silly adolescent humor. This was not really evident in Brosnan's other two releases, I don't know what they would of come up with if Brosnan had managed a fifth Bond adventure. At least with Craig we had decent endings as both times he didn't end up with the girl (made a nice change), but will revert back to type for Bond in Skyfall, you knew they couldn't stray too far from the normal route for too long

    Goodnight I-)
  • Posts: 1,310
    I remember first seeing that scene and thinking, "THEY KILLED MONEYPENNY?!?!??!"

    I think the scene stands fine on its own and works as a nice little 'twist'. One of the better parts in an otherwise dreadful DAD.
    I don't have a problem with the first VR scene, just the second one.
    Agree on this 100%.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 143</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The comedy in OP doesn't mix well with the serious threat of a nuclear war.</b></font>
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 143</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The comedy in OP doesn't mix well with the serious threat of a nuclear war.</b></font>

    Disagree: Purely because the humour is part of Bond! Especially during Moore's tenure in the role.
  • Disagree. That's what I like about OP, it's a nice mix of fun and serious. Ok there are some OTT moments that could've been taken out (tarzan), but overall the comedy is nicely done and mixes in well with the film I think.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2012 Posts: 28,694
    It doesn't mix well with the world of James Bond, period.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 143</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The comedy in OP doesn't mix well with the serious threat of a nuclear war.</b></font>

    Agree. Basically sums up my issues with the majority of the Moore era. Great themes diluted by comedy that could have worked nicely together if handled better.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2012 Posts: 12,480
    I have mixed feelings. I enjoy OP because of the mixture of drama and fun, light hearted humor. So I disagree. I think. Bond would save the world - we knew that by that time in the series - and people expected some of Roger's suave off the cuff remarks and charm. There was not an overall seriousness or realism to the films. It was a formula by then that worked for that time. I don't think it was OTT here for the most part. I preferred FYEO, though, to OP.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    The India scenes go for comedy, the German scenes don't. Why couldn't the whole film be like the later half? A film at war with itself I think.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Disagree, Nobody did it better than Moore and this movie was an almost perfect mix of humour and serious action.
  • Posts: 1,082
    Disagree. OP and its mix of humour and seriousness are not perfect but not far from it either IMO. I think the serious story worked really well with some jokes thrown in along the way.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    RogueAgent wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 143</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The comedy in OP doesn't mix well with the serious threat of a nuclear war.</b></font>

    Disagree: Purely because the humour is part of Bond! Especially during Moore's tenure in the role.

    Agree(with Rogue Agent's post that is. Disagree with the main thesis). Humor and Moore's Bond just go together. The first hour of OP plays like the typical 1970s Moore era comedy Bond. But that sends up the very suspenseful and exciting 2nd 1/2 which plays like a precursor of the Dalton era.

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