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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SaintMark wrote:
    Disagree, Nobody did it better than Moore and this movie was an almost perfect mix of humour and serious action.

    I would go along with this. Although I'm fairly ambivalent about the India scenes, the whole Germany sequence is among my favourite parts of the series.

    However what cannot be denied is that Rog is on possibly his best form in OP - 'Fill her up please', 'Its all in the wrist', sliding down the bannister - absoultely sparkling stuff.

    Yeah maybe its not pure Fleming Bond but if you dont enjoy Sir Rog at full throttle like this you really must lead a miserable life indeed. And the fact that its Rog in the clown suit makes it even more tense for me - if even Rog himself is getting worried (and he really sells it in the scene with the General) then maybe theres a problem.

    Overall would have to disagree with the thesis - its just classic Rog and theres nothing wrong with that.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited August 2012 Posts: 2,629
    With the tense plot and especially the build up before defusing the bomb at the last second, comedy relief was needed. It even helped with the critical nature of Bond getting to the US Air Force base with the German kids driving off after teasing a pickup and the German couple offering him food. I never minded Roger dressed as a clown as he was eluding the German and USAF security forces at the time. The guy that was getting fired out of the cannonball was actually well timed after exhaling from a very tense scene.

    I disagree with the stated thesis.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited August 2012 Posts: 4,520
    There are times i rank the movie 10/22 and times it rank it 11/22. Octopussy have good balance of humor serious and original chacter/actors. The only thing what keep me a way for a higher rank the moost is Orlov, the ugly maintitle,also like some other movies more. It be movie with more elements of doubt like TLD, but no so much as CR. You not always accepted way of feeling of the movie. Octopussy be a litle bit on the edge i think Bond 24 wil be a bit like that and TMND. Iam worried a bit about that. But If Bond 24 mis the respect Octopussy, TLD, ''GE'' and TMND have and more closer like CR i wil possible go to rank those movies lower. Mabey i wil turn my back of the franchise.

    So i disagree. The humor is needed to relieve/be entertainment like TLD doing this too.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 143</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The comedy in OP doesn't mix well with the serious threat of a nuclear war.</b></font>

    Disagree with thesis. I'm not excusing the usual stupidity of the era foisted on the viewer in the Indian street and jungle chases, but in Germany where the threat is finally clear, the humor is set aside as it should be. Bond in clown suit is not part of the humor, he had to do it in order to shake the police and blend in in order to get to the bomb.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    The comedy in Octopussy in Octopussy doesn't go well with anything I feel. Yes humor in Bond is part and parcel of the series, but that year they went a bit too far for sure. I still don't think the clown 'fit was really necessary, there may have been quicker ways to have disguised himself, if there's a nuclear Bomb ticking down you don't go to all the time it takes to get dressed up and put on face paint. That must have taken a considerable amount of time, and in hindsight, just feels a bit ridiculous sometimes. I say thesis is correct, bottom line is, the ill advised humor that year didn't mix well with anything you could think of
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 144</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Brandauer played Largo as a less stable, more flamboyant character than Celi.</b></font>
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Agree. That is putting it lightly. NSNA's Largo is as ticking time bomb, while Largo was the classic gentleman villain of the 60s Bond villain.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Agree. That is putting it lightly. NSNA's Largo is as ticking time bomb, while Largo was the classic gentleman villain of the 60s Bond villain.

    Agree! Could not put it any better! I prefer the Celli version of the villain though as much as i enjoyed NSNA.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 144</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Brandauer played Largo as a less stable, more flamboyant character than Celi.</b></font>

    Agree with thesis. Completely different interpretations both in script and performance. Brandauer is only one of two bright spots (the other Carrera) in the film, but I still think Celi is better and carries more menace.

  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Cant say never seen NSNA.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Wholeheartedly agree. Celi's Largo did have an air of sophistication and calm reserve. Brandauer's Largo had the manic intensity.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Agree. Two different performances, two good Largos, in my opinon. Brandauer was even gross; Celi had sophisitcation and quieter menace.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    edited August 2012 Posts: 1,082
    I like both, but I think Brandauer seemed psychotic or something, almost like Zorin. Celi felt more like a typical menacing villain, cold but stable.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    Inspired by @007RogerMoore's comment:

    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 145</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Max Zorin was a rip-off of the NSNA Largo.</b></font>
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    I don't know. It's possible that they were inspired by the NSNA Largo, but it's also possible that the Zorin character was written the way it was because of Walken's speciality in playing psychotic villains.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Inspired by @007RogerMoore's comment:

    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 145</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Max Zorin was a rip-off of the NSNA Largo.</b></font>

    If he was, he was an improvement. Very tough to make a decision based on not knowing what Cubby thought of NSNA artistically, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt based on him sick and tired of McGlory's endless injunctions and say disagree with thesis.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    What a proper segue @Dimi! :)

    I think both made it their own, even though Chris wasn't really acting. ;)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I don't think so but if he was, this was very quick thinking and a good call on EON's part as I've never noticed it!
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,520
    Indirect you say Max Zorin is a rip-off of the villian of FYEO because i think NSNA largo for a part is rip-off that chacter. So i disagree.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    M_Balje wrote:
    Indirect you say Max Zorin is a rip-off of the villian of FYEO because i think NSNA largo for a part is rip-off that chacter. So i disagree.

    Hang on there, @M_Balje. You mean to imply that Largo is based on Kristatos? I fail to see any resemblance myself, except for the obvious fact that both are of the male gender.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I disagree. Max Zorin was a ripoff of Auric Goldfinger.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I haven't seen Never Say Never Again for so long but the Largo character (Brandauer) does seem to have similar characteristics to the Zorin idea, although I never really paid much attention to it, I watch NSNA once in a blue moon. I always thought Walken was wasted in AVTAK, how did an actor of such caliber end up in such a sorry mess. It seems maybe he was just his own person and no clone or intention of any given previous character. Thesis works both ways, but I'm going to disagree
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Inspired by @007RogerMoore's comment:

    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 145</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Max Zorin was a rip-off of the NSNA Largo.</b></font>

    As i have never ever saw this comparrison? I would have to disagree with this thesis.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Dissagree. Zorin was way more Psychotic than Brandauer's Largo. Zorin would kill people for the hell of it where Largo was subtle and somewhat goofy and never killed anyone.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Murdock wrote:
    Dissagree. Zorin was way more Psychotic than Brandauer's Largo. Zorin would kill people for the hell of it where Largo was subtle and somewhat goofy and never killed anyone.
    Indeed. Brandauer's Largo is also more unstable, whereas Zorin is very stable, just a psychopath. And to be honest I think Walken puts down one of the best Bond villains in history. Brandauer is good as well, but not that good, and a different type of lunatic imo.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 2012 Posts: 24,184
    Following a suggestion by @CommanderRoss:

    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 146</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>In QOS, Mathis says "the heroes and the villains get all mixed up" whereas in the novel CR, Bond drops that line. It should still have been Bond saying it in the film.</b></font>
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Disagree- Dans bond (the only one with something called charictor evolution.) is almost a renegade at this point. If you get what I'm trying to say. It wouldn't make scence for bond to say the line.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2012 Posts: 28,694
    I disagree. Mathis is more Bond's age in the CR novel, while in the film he is more of a mentor type, kind of like a man who has seen everything in his line of work, so it makes sense for him to give advice to a more rookie-level Bond. The line and the convoluted nature of good and evil is still present, no matter if Bond says it or not, and that section in the novel is some of the greatest writing I have ever read.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Following a suggestion by @CommanderRoss:

    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 146</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>In CR, Mathis says "the heroes and the villains get all mixed up" whereas in the novel, Bond drops that line. It should still have been Bond saying it in the film.</b></font>

    Having not read the novel, i would say disagree. I think Mathis delivers the line perfectly in a good scene between him and Bond. Also, there are i am sure other things lifted from the book that are put up on the big screen that are not a perfect transition from the novels?
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited August 2012 Posts: 3,494
    There's reasons for both to say it, so disagree with thesis.
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