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Yes, because it doesn’t involve an imagined version of a real person being blamed because of a perceived and equally imagined personality defect. If it were a less public figure you had come up with it, say, Andrew Noakes (we never talk about him, do we?), he’d never be accused of having the massive ego to want to kill Bond. It’s just all so simplistic: we know who Craig is and have heard him speak, therefore it’s all his fault. There are loads of people involved with these things, many of whom aren’t public facing, but they all get a say.
It’s more that I’m just yet to see anyone suggest one that they hadn’t already done. I agree that NTTD had to end that way because it was designed to, but I’m not sure there was much left for this Bond to do.
To be fair, most Bond films end in similar ways to others. I mean 5 of the 6 Connery Bonds ended with him at sea with a girl! I’d also argue that both CR and SF have similar endings too, so I personally don’t agree with the notion that they wanted to have a different ending than anything they’ve done before. In fact I’d argue that if they structured the film around Bond going off into the sunset as a family man, that would’ve been much different than anything that has come before as well, and that would’ve been a much bolder ending in my opinion because it challenges the core conventions of Bond as a character more than killing him off does. Plus after all the events Craig’s Bond has gone through, killing him off just seems even more nihilistic, and perhaps that’s why some fans take issue with the movie overall and it’s conception.
What I dislike about NTTD is the blatant callbacks to OHMSS. I’ll admit that on first viewing, I found them a tad bit charming, but it’s the exact same type of fan service that Die Another Day for criticized for; cheap nostalgia bait trying to evoke memories and emotions of the original, but fails to do so. By the time “We Have All The Time in The World” plays at the end, I find myself grinding my teeth.
Exactly! This is one of the worst aspects of NTTD for me.
At least DAD was played for fun, but here in NTTD, it felt like they're stealing the song, putting it to this so called "Bond And Madeleine relationship", yes, I get angry, and it's one of the reasons why I don't liked to watch the film again, it's an insult! It didn't makes sense, and for me, unnecessary.
I don't know what they're supposed to do, I would've accept it more if Bond and Madeleine had been given their own love song, to say that this is the biggest love life of James Bond, it felt cheap with reusing all of the OHMSS themes, if this relationship was really important, why not create their own theme? It's lazy.
Even the romances in the Dalton era and GE had been given more effort by giving them their own song:
Kara and Bond - If There Was A Man
Pam and Bond - If You Asked Me Too
Natalya and Bond - Experience of Love
But here, considering it's the biggest romance of all, as they say, they didn't put any effort?!
Or maybe I wished they've never given them any love song, look at Bond's romance with Vesper, it's not given any love song, but the majority of people brought the relationship more.
And not just that, even Dalton's V8 didn't makes sense, Bond used for a brief moment, and that's it? It's underused and underutilized, it's an obvious fan service nonsense like a product placement.
To me, those callbacks are one of the things that ruined NTTD for me!
If memory serves, I believe Cary Fukunaga is on record as saying he liked the V8, and wanted it in the film.
I think they found a simple little way of slipping it in (without the need for exposition): Bond had another car in storage. Instead of a Bentley, it was the V-8. There you go.
But it's cheap, mainly because that song belongs to a different film.
Maybe we have different feelings regarding it, but for me, it's not just a stolen piece from an original film, but it cheapens the relationship of Bond and Madeleine (whom I never bought in the first place because they have no chemistry), and now this made it more worse! Almost putting a salt to the injury!
And again, the V8 was just used for a nonsense brief of time, really? Bond just used it to drive from London to Norway (!) (See what a contrivance is that), then after that, he'd left the car for a more relevant chase scene with that Land Rover (because they're promoting the car, so they've realized that the V8 would be no longer in use).
To me, it's the same as if the 007 theme came back again.
In any series, I'm agnostic about the "rules" of what the creatives can and can't do, according to fans.
If they thought WHATTITW best represents the story, I'll either like it, or I won't. Little I can do about it. Happily, I loved this choice, and to me, it felt like a perfect melody, and a perfect song. And, until NTTD, OHMSS was my favourite Bond film!
As for the V8, I don't see the big deal. It wasn't set-up to be anything more than another car Bond had in storage.
Agreed. I had no issues with either. I loved that they had the OHMSS music during the M/Bond scene by the water. Maybe they should have had Melina's yellow car in his storage unit instead of the V8 😁
The Land Rover was used since it was a safer car to drive away in rather than having Mathilde bouncing around in the back seat of the V8.
Sure EON owned it, but then so If There Was A Man, If You Asked Me To, and Experience of Love, and We Have All The Time isn't that different from those.
And all of those songs represents the romances in Bond's life.
Why not make an original song for Bond and Madeleine? If they're making it to be the biggest romance in any Bond film? It felt cheap, lazy and an insult.
Why not recreate the other themes in the series?
I just don't liked these references, it made no sense, other than remind people of the past films.
And about the V8, again, it's underused and underutilized.
And PS: WHATTITW is a lot different from the songs you chose above... namely it's a great song, and the others, in my opinion, not so much.
I get it, it's subjective.
But for me, it just didn't worked for me, just wished they've made an original song for Bond and Madeleine, if they're making it the biggest love story ever told in franchise.
But for me, it felt cheap and lazy.
And I disagree a bit, I really liked If You Asked Me Too, I can listen to it anytime than We Have All The Time In The World (I'm still listening to WHATTIW, but not anytime, just in some occasions when I'm in the mood), but still, even then, it belongs to OHMSS for me, it defines Bond and Tracy's romance, now because of NTTD, that song defines a tragedy, that everytime that there's a tragedy in Bond's romance, that song would be played, so it's no longer representing the significance of Bond and Tracy relationship.
NTTD stripped off the significance of Bond and Tracy's relationship, NTTD stripped off its identity, these love songs are what make the romances in Bond's life different, unique and special (again, like If You Asked Me Too, If There Was A Man, Experience of Love, and this song), those songs that have special meanings, now the romance of Bond and Tracy are no longer special in that regard just because NTTD used it.
All of the callbacks in this film just didn't worked for me.
And that's because, there's the significance of Bond and Tracy, that song signifies their relationship.
But the way NTTD used this song was like: 'This song represents the tragic romances in Bond's life'.
It removed the real meaning of the song which was about the relationship of Bond and Tracy.
NTTD put a bad mark on the song, so instead of people hearing WHATTIW and reminds them of Bond and Tracy romance, everytime they would hear it, they would be having some thoughts of "oh, something's tragic is happening to Bond's life again".
They've made the song full of misery, depressing and dark, instead of sweet and tender like what it really represented before.
It's a part of OHMSS' romance identity.
It didn't feel jarring in the least. It flowed. It was ironic. I didn't give it a second thought, other than how beautiful that melody is and how it worked with the dream-like imagery in the film.
I remember before release of NTTD, speculating they might reuse YKMN over the credits, but given the nature of the ending, perhaps it would have been nice to use poignant Chris Cornell/Audioslave ballad, to round the era off were it begun.
A nice tribute to both Cornell and the Craig era
Yeah the YOLT ending could’ve worked, I remember a few of us suggesting it as Craig’s finale over the years, but it would’ve worked for the same reason NTTD’s ending did; it’s beautifully tragic.
I suppose it’s open ended enough to give fans who don’t like the idea the option to pretend that TMWTGG happened right after, or that he Rambo’d his way out of Russia. But the implication by leaving the story there, and not actually showing any of that, would be the same. Bond’s story ends in tragedy. He has a final chance of a normal life, with his kid, he’s even lost his memory of Tracy and the people he’s killed and all that emotional baggage. But he’s James Bond, and even without his memory, there’s part of him that just won’t quit. So, he heads straight into the heart of Russia, the enemy he spent most of the series fighting, unarmed and completely unprepared. Everything about it is geared towards making you think it won’t end well for him.
You could even argue it’s bleaker than NTTD in a way. Bond’s death in that film was an outright depiction of a heroic sacrifice. Sad, but he won. Saved the world and saved his family. The YOLT ending, without the context of a follow up, implies that he’s wandering straight into the gulag and to his own execution.
I think it could’ve been good, but yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think it’s definitely bleaker.
Even the rules according to Fleming are a pretty flimsy basis for making an exciting new film sixty years after he died, imo. Id he had never written OHMSS, then Bond getting married and the baddy winning by killing her would have seemed as radical a departure as NTTD does. But because he did write it, and that book came out before most of us on here were even born, that’s in the rules, while the NTTD ending isn’t.
But, who’s to say he wouldn’t have gone there himself one day, if he’d lived and kept writing them? Doesn’t OHMSS show that he was willing to break the “rules” of his own series?
And to be honest, I think the idea of “rules” based off what’s come before is counter productive to Bond being such a long running series. He’s a fairly static character and there is a formula there. And not all the ways that they deviate from and play with that formula are going to work for everyone, and some deviations are bigger than others.
But “they’re not allowed to do that because nobody did it before” is a flimsy argument when we’re talking about a series that’s been going for 60 years imo. They should be trying new things. If they’d had that attitude in the 70s we wouldn’t have got the best Bond theme (Connery slagged off the Beatles, therefore Paul Mccartney doing a theme is against the rules).
This! Agreed! But not even cover.
An original, new theme to represent the Bond and Madeleine relationship, to give their relationship an identity.
It really felt lazy to me considering that they've been trying to make this Bond and Madeleine relationship the biggest one, the most important one.
Yes indeed, and I think YOLT is pretty crazy stuff, so much so that the film series hasn't really gone near it as it's too much of a deviation, even though Fleming wrote it.
Plus I'd say that FRWL shows he may well have killed him off at some point. It's not hard to imagine. If Robin Hood and Sherlock Holmes could die, why not Bond.
Absolutely. I remember years ago when CR was being made there were lots of fans complaining that it was deviating from 'The Formula' too much- I remember asking one if they'd accept a new Bond film with a new fair-haired Bond, where he never visited MI6 HQ to get his briefing, no Q, he never wears a dinner suit/tuxedo, no martini shaken-not-stirred, a big rock song over the titles instead of a power ballad, no Bond in the PTS, a baddie who is supernatural etc. and they said no, they wouldn't accept that. And as I'm sure you've figured out, I was describing LALD, a film which had long been accepted as a Bond movie for nearly 35 years.
Doing new things is what they should do, and what's more I think that in 10-15 years NTTD will accepted as 'the one where he dies' with no controversy just as much as we embrace CR now, even though that was very controversial for many at the time.
Hell, TWINE was controversial at the time: Bond getting injured? A female villain? M kidnapped? MI6 attacked? These were massive deviations from the norm at the time, and that seems quite quaint now.
An imagined version of a real person? Imagined personality defect? Did someone write that, or are those your words and your interpretation? Did Craig say it? Did he get the end he wanted? Anyone say it's all Craig's fault?
I absolutely loved it and love it every time.
Let's see.....
Yes, lots of people have been saying that. You yourself said it was about ego just a few hours ago.
My first thought is OHMSS, because I switched off NTTD as soon as I started hearing WHATTITW, and will likely never see it again. My first thought is Bond telling it to Tracy...
Easy for me, I have that focus.
Same. Having the melody and the song in both films just doesn't confuse me.
When I'm watching OHMSS , I'm not think about NTTD,; when I'm watching NTTD,I'm not thinking about OHMSS.
When I listen to the song without watching one of the two, I'm likely not thinking of either of the movies.
Simple as that.