Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited June 6 Posts: 14,674
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 154
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Simon, if bashing DAD is all it takes to keep you here, I'll happily oblige. 😉

    @DarthDimi If that's a euphemism, I emphatically decline. If it's genuine, don't worry, I'm not an overopinionated teenage keyboard troll any more, so you do you!
  • Posts: 4,295
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.
  • edited June 6 Posts: 1,085
    007HallY wrote: »
    I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws.

    I came out the cinema buzzing the first time I saw it. I can see the problems with the film now, but it was a great ride on the big screen.
    One thing that DAD has going for it, is it wasn't trying to be anything it wasn't. It was the kitchen sink Bond movie. They threw everything up there, in one great glorious mess, really.
    I'd take Die Another Day over a couple of Craig Bonds any day.
  • Posts: 4,295
    007HallY wrote: »
    I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws.

    I came out the cinema buzzing the first time I saw it. I can see the problems with the film now, but it was a great ride on the big screen.
    One thing that DAD has going for it, is it wasn't trying to be anything it wasn't. It was the kitchen sink Bond movie. They threw everything up there, in one great glorious mess, really.
    I'd take Die Another Day over a couple of Craig Bonds any day.

    Sort of. To be fair it begins with a quite cool premise that almost seems like something from the Craig era. Bond getting imprisoned in a torture camp, betrayed, having to go on his own etc. There's even some weighty stuff between Colonel Moon and his father in that film. It's not just a by the numbers Bond flick on paper.

    It almost feels as if they began by wanting to make a much darker film but slowly defaulted to trying to make it 'lighter' and eventually got a sort of DAF spin off. I have no idea if that's what happened in practice, but I agree, it feels like a bit of a mess. But then again a mess of a Bond film is still interesting (and entertaining).

    I think Brosnan's generally good in it (he certainly doesn't come across as a man who's spent a year in a torture prison, but he's quite confident in the role). Personally I'm not sure if I'd watch it over any of the Craig films myself, but I'm sure there are many who would.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    007HallY wrote: »
    I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws.

    I came out the cinema buzzing the first time I saw it. I can see the problems with the film now, but it was a great ride on the big screen.
    One thing that DAD has going for it, is it wasn't trying to be anything it wasn't. It was the kitchen sink Bond movie. They threw everything up there, in one great glorious mess, really.
    I'd take Die Another Day over a couple of Craig Bonds any day.

    Not the Craigs in my case, but certainly the likes of NSNA, TWINE and perhaps even TMWTGG and AVTAK.

    DAD is consistent in its over-the-top, spytechno rubbish. It maintains a nice videogame vibe which makes it a messenger from the past, a Bond film that you may have to explain to future generations of fans before they jump in. They will need to understand 2002 before they can understand DAD. Despite all that, it's a Bond film flirting with parody, but a Bond film nevertheless. Some of its scenes I have a great fondness for, like the meeting with Q/R in the abandoned tube station. And the Cuba scenes aren't half bad. I even chuckle at the Fidel Castrato joke.
  • edited June 6 Posts: 1,085
    007HallY wrote: »
    It almost feels as if they began by wanting to make a much darker film but slowly defaulted to trying to make it 'lighter' and eventually got a sort of DAF spin off. I have no idea if that's what happened in practice, but I agree, it feels like a bit of a mess. But then again a mess of a Bond film is still interesting (and entertaining).

    Yea!

    Tonally, DAD is almost as much as mess as NTTD is. But at least DAD is likable, despite all its faults.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 154
    Tonally, DAD is almost as much as mess as NTTD is. But at least DAD is likable, despite all its faults.

    I still feel if NTTD had all the character names changed, it would just have been a middling non-Bond movie that would be forgotten a couple of years after release.

    DAD just feels like it was so mismanaged, pulled in so many directions, with so many faults, that it will always be just a plain, old fashioned Bad Movie, Bond film or not.

    Although to be fair to DAD, this discussion is about the ending, and it might be the one thing it did better than NTTD, and I actually prefer it.


    Admittedly, that's like saying I would rather be in a car crash than a plane crash, but little victories...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Simon wrote: »
    Tonally, DAD is almost as much as mess as NTTD is. But at least DAD is likable, despite all its faults.

    I still feel if NTTD had all the character names changed, it would just have been a middling non-Bond movie that would be forgotten a couple of years after release.

    DAD just feels like it was so mismanaged, pulled in so many directions, with so many faults, that it will always be just a plain, old fashioned Bad Movie, Bond film or not.

    Although to be fair to DAD, this discussion is about the ending, and it might be the one thing it did better than NTTD, and I actually prefer it.


    Admittedly, that's like saying I would rather be in a car crash than a plane crash, but little victories...

    Eh, the DAD ending IS a plane crash, quite literally, no? Twice. First the big CGI Antonov that ust keeps on going for the script even though it's been ripped apart already, and then the helicopter which' blades refuse to start rotating when it's dropped from a great hight. And then the cringe- keep it in. tbh, blowing Bond up doesn't seem like a bad idea after that. DAD has some things going for it, but the end is not one of them.

    DAD is the best quotable film in the franchise though.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 698
    I'll take Bond speeding around an ice palace in an invisible Aston Martin over the maudlin melodrama of the last three Craig movies any day of the week. Though DAD is still in my bottom 5.
  • Posts: 2,292
    Die Another Day’s biggest sin is just being stupid at times. But other than that I find the film quite entertaining; still wish we could’ve gotten one more film from Pierce though.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,674
    I just see DAD at one end of the spectrum with maybe FRWL? at the other end. Two extremes, which all other Bond films and future films will sit between, but never likely reach.

    On topic, LALD has one of my favourite endings, with the train fight and Samedi returning for a laugh and a tip of the hat.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,592
    Simon wrote: »
    Tonally, DAD is almost as much as mess as NTTD is. But at least DAD is likable, despite all its faults.

    I still feel if NTTD had all the character names changed, it would just have been a middling non-Bond movie that would be forgotten a couple of years after release.

    DAD just feels like it was so mismanaged, pulled in so many directions, with so many faults, that it will always be just a plain, old fashioned Bad Movie, Bond film or not.

    Although to be fair to DAD, this discussion is about the ending, and it might be the one thing it did better than NTTD, and I actually prefer it.


    Admittedly, that's like saying I would rather be in a car crash than a plane crash, but little victories...

    Eh, the DAD ending IS a plane crash, quite literally, no? Twice. First the big CGI Antonov that ust keeps on going for the script even though it's been ripped apart already, and then the helicopter which' blades refuse to start rotating when it's dropped from a great hight.

    Oh yeah, I’d not thought about that. Bond is so worried about getting the engine started but he doesn’t need to: you can glide a helicopter in.
  • edited June 7 Posts: 1,446
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.

    Yeah, Brosnan shines brighter when he makes Moore-style movies than when he tries to be more serious.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 154

    Eh, the DAD ending IS a plane crash, quite literally, no? Twice. First the big CGI Antonov that ust keeps on going for the script even though it's been ripped apart already, and then the helicopter which' blades refuse to start rotating when it's dropped from a great hight. And then the cringe- keep it in. tbh, blowing Bond up doesn't seem like a bad idea after that. DAD has some things going for it, but the end is not one of them.

    I have watched the Brosnan's recently, but my DAD viewing was the Icarus cut, so I had culled some of this from memory :D

    They are still the bottom two films overall in the series for me though, so splitting hairs in my case over which was better!
    DAD is the best quotable film in the franchise though.

    Yo momma!

    ;)
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited June 7 Posts: 14,674
    007HallY wrote: »
    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?
    Heh, liver not too good. Especially when it's bad!

    Brosnan is very good and holds it all together. He doesn't revel in the puns too much. I find it more entertaining than TWINE. The gadget redesigns like the breather and laser watch are very cool.

    Not about best endings, but I love the endings that show footage throughout the credits, like FRWL's Venice, TSWLM's naval destroyer, MR's shuttle in orbit etc. It adds extra value to the film, like an encore or victory lap.
    I want that to return.

    Sdmlfearless9.jpg
  • Posts: 6,710
    I love Brosnan, but if DAD was the only Bond film, I wouldn’t be a Bond fan. I disliked it then, and I dislike it now. I still call it DUD.
  • Posts: 4,295
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.

    Yeah, Brosnan shines brighter when he makes Moore-style movies than when he tries to be more serious.

    Well, sort of. I think his performance in GE is actually pretty great, and that’s effectively a ‘serious’ Bond movie. I think it’s just about what his comfort zone was as an actor and what they got him to do. I think in GE, TND and a lot of DAD there’s an understated ‘less is more’ quality to him even during certain scenes (ie. the hotel scene with Paris or the beach scene in GE. He’s not actually doing much as an actor in those scenes and it works). In TWINE for some reason his performance is dialled up and can be hammy (he looks as if he’s trying to burst into tears when watching Elektra’s video which even in context is silly, then there’s his OTT soap opera-style reaction to Renard’s ‘if you can’t feel alive’ line… and of course his ‘shouldaaar’). It happens in DAD too but much less (‘someone betrayed me and I’m going afftaar them’)
    QBranch wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?
    Heh, liver not too good. Especially when it's bad!

    Brosnan is very good and holds it all together. He doesn't revel in the puns too much. I find it more entertaining than TWINE. The gadget redesigns like the breather and laser watch are very cool

    I think once he gets to Cuba he actually looks pretty confident and he hits his stride. Again, I suppose a nitpicky criticism is he really doesn’t seem like a Bond who’s been tortured for a year and is hell bent on figuring out what’s happened! It feels like he’s giving a performance that should be in another film, but that’s not his fault really considering the direction the film takes.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,157
    Last time I watched DAD, I actually managed to get through the first half without biting my fist. First time for everything.
  • Posts: 7,537
    Venutius wrote: »
    Last time I watched DAD, I actually managed to get through the first half without biting my fist. First time for everything.

    Last time I watched DAD, I........ eh...oh sorry, it's one Bond movie I never watch!! 🤪
  • edited June 8 Posts: 1,446
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.

    Yeah, Brosnan shines brighter when he makes Moore-style movies than when he tries to be more serious.

    Well, sort of. I think his performance in GE is actually pretty great, and that’s effectively a ‘serious’ Bond movie.
    I think it’s just about what his comfort zone was as an actor and what they got him to do. I think in GE, TND and a lot of DAD there’s an understated ‘less is more’ quality to him even during certain scenes (ie. the hotel scene with Paris or the beach scene in GE. He’s not actually doing much as an actor in those scenes and it works). In TWINE for some reason his performance is dialled up and can be hammy (he looks as if he’s trying to burst into tears when watching Elektra’s video which even in context is silly, then there’s his OTT soap opera-style reaction to Renard’s ‘if you can’t feel alive’ line… and of course his ‘shouldaaar’). It happens in DAD too but much less (‘someone betrayed me and I’m going afftaar them’)
    QBranch wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?
    Heh, liver not too good. Especially when it's bad!

    Brosnan is very good and holds it all together. He doesn't revel in the puns too much. I find it more entertaining than TWINE. The gadget redesigns like the breather and laser watch are very cool

    I think once he gets to Cuba he actually looks pretty confident and he hits his stride. Again, I suppose a nitpicky criticism is he really doesn’t seem like a Bond who’s been tortured for a year and is hell bent on figuring out what’s happened! It feels like he’s giving a performance that should be in another film, but that’s not his fault really considering the direction the film takes.

    Well, I don't like GE that much. I don't think Dalton could save the movie either. It's a boring and bland movie IMO.

    TND is the type of movie that suits Brosnan best, IMO.


    DAD is quite silly but it has the fun factor. It's not ashamed of itself like other Bond movies.

    TWINE needed a better director, someone with more punch.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,600
    NTTD would be a top 5 Bond film if Bond doesn't die.

    There i said it. The ending drops it to the lower teens.
  • Posts: 4,295
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.

    Yeah, Brosnan shines brighter when he makes Moore-style movies than when he tries to be more serious.

    Well, sort of. I think his performance in GE is actually pretty great, and that’s effectively a ‘serious’ Bond movie.
    I think it’s just about what his comfort zone was as an actor and what they got him to do. I think in GE, TND and a lot of DAD there’s an understated ‘less is more’ quality to him even during certain scenes (ie. the hotel scene with Paris or the beach scene in GE. He’s not actually doing much as an actor in those scenes and it works). In TWINE for some reason his performance is dialled up and can be hammy (he looks as if he’s trying to burst into tears when watching Elektra’s video which even in context is silly, then there’s his OTT soap opera-style reaction to Renard’s ‘if you can’t feel alive’ line… and of course his ‘shouldaaar’). It happens in DAD too but much less (‘someone betrayed me and I’m going afftaar them’)
    QBranch wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?
    Heh, liver not too good. Especially when it's bad!

    Brosnan is very good and holds it all together. He doesn't revel in the puns too much. I find it more entertaining than TWINE. The gadget redesigns like the breather and laser watch are very cool

    I think once he gets to Cuba he actually looks pretty confident and he hits his stride. Again, I suppose a nitpicky criticism is he really doesn’t seem like a Bond who’s been tortured for a year and is hell bent on figuring out what’s happened! It feels like he’s giving a performance that should be in another film, but that’s not his fault really considering the direction the film takes.

    Well, I don't like GE that much. I don't think Dalton could save the movie either. It's a boring and bland movie IMO.

    TND is the type of movie that suits Brosnan best, IMO.


    DAD is quite silly but it has the fun factor. It's not ashamed of itself like other Bond movies.

    TWINE needed a better director, someone with more punch.

    To each their own. GE is one of my favourite Bond films. I’m a big fan of TND too.

    DAD isn’t ashamed of itself, I agree. Confused as to what kind of Bond film it actually is, yes. But not ashamed.

    I personally think there’s a great Bond film in TWINE, and I agree a different director would have helped a lot. Same for some of the casting (I like Robert Carlyle but he’s all wrong for the part of Renard).
  • Posts: 2,292
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.

    Yeah, Brosnan shines brighter when he makes Moore-style movies than when he tries to be more serious.

    Well, sort of. I think his performance in GE is actually pretty great, and that’s effectively a ‘serious’ Bond movie.
    I think it’s just about what his comfort zone was as an actor and what they got him to do. I think in GE, TND and a lot of DAD there’s an understated ‘less is more’ quality to him even during certain scenes (ie. the hotel scene with Paris or the beach scene in GE. He’s not actually doing much as an actor in those scenes and it works). In TWINE for some reason his performance is dialled up and can be hammy (he looks as if he’s trying to burst into tears when watching Elektra’s video which even in context is silly, then there’s his OTT soap opera-style reaction to Renard’s ‘if you can’t feel alive’ line… and of course his ‘shouldaaar’). It happens in DAD too but much less (‘someone betrayed me and I’m going afftaar them’)
    QBranch wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?
    Heh, liver not too good. Especially when it's bad!

    Brosnan is very good and holds it all together. He doesn't revel in the puns too much. I find it more entertaining than TWINE. The gadget redesigns like the breather and laser watch are very cool

    I think once he gets to Cuba he actually looks pretty confident and he hits his stride. Again, I suppose a nitpicky criticism is he really doesn’t seem like a Bond who’s been tortured for a year and is hell bent on figuring out what’s happened! It feels like he’s giving a performance that should be in another film, but that’s not his fault really considering the direction the film takes.

    Well, I don't like GE that much. I don't think Dalton could save the movie either. It's a boring and bland movie IMO.

    TND is the type of movie that suits Brosnan best, IMO.


    DAD is quite silly but it has the fun factor. It's not ashamed of itself like other Bond movies.

    TWINE needed a better director, someone with more punch.

    I personally think there’s a great Bond film in TWINE, and I agree a different director would have helped a lot. Same for some of the casting (I like Robert Carlyle but he’s all wrong for the part of Renard).

    Great point. I’d also argue that Denise Richards was another miscast, which is a shame considering the hassle she received from critics/audiences.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.

    Yeah, Brosnan shines brighter when he makes Moore-style movies than when he tries to be more serious.

    Well, sort of. I think his performance in GE is actually pretty great, and that’s effectively a ‘serious’ Bond movie.
    I think it’s just about what his comfort zone was as an actor and what they got him to do. I think in GE, TND and a lot of DAD there’s an understated ‘less is more’ quality to him even during certain scenes (ie. the hotel scene with Paris or the beach scene in GE. He’s not actually doing much as an actor in those scenes and it works). In TWINE for some reason his performance is dialled up and can be hammy (he looks as if he’s trying to burst into tears when watching Elektra’s video which even in context is silly, then there’s his OTT soap opera-style reaction to Renard’s ‘if you can’t feel alive’ line… and of course his ‘shouldaaar’). It happens in DAD too but much less (‘someone betrayed me and I’m going afftaar them’)
    QBranch wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?
    Heh, liver not too good. Especially when it's bad!

    Brosnan is very good and holds it all together. He doesn't revel in the puns too much. I find it more entertaining than TWINE. The gadget redesigns like the breather and laser watch are very cool

    I think once he gets to Cuba he actually looks pretty confident and he hits his stride. Again, I suppose a nitpicky criticism is he really doesn’t seem like a Bond who’s been tortured for a year and is hell bent on figuring out what’s happened! It feels like he’s giving a performance that should be in another film, but that’s not his fault really considering the direction the film takes.

    Well, I don't like GE that much. I don't think Dalton could save the movie either. It's a boring and bland movie IMO.

    TND is the type of movie that suits Brosnan best, IMO.


    DAD is quite silly but it has the fun factor. It's not ashamed of itself like other Bond movies.

    TWINE needed a better director, someone with more punch.

    I personally think there’s a great Bond film in TWINE, and I agree a different director would have helped a lot. Same for some of the casting (I like Robert Carlyle but he’s all wrong for the part of Renard).

    Great point. I’d also argue that Denise Richards was another miscast, which is a shame considering the hassle she received from critics/audiences.

    I disagree on Denise. Most of the critics say she's too pretty to be a scientist, which is obviously utter nonsense. The problem lies within the script. With a few tweaks she'd come over as beeing far more intelligent. Take the ride on the inspection vehicle with the bomb. Bond says' look at this', she reacts 'someone tampered with the bomb'. No shit sherlock! If Bond had said 'look at this, someone tampered with the bomb', all she'd have to say is something on the lines of s***t, and it would seem she'd be quite smart.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,592
    I think Richards is fine to be honest. I don't think she does anything wrong.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,251
    Denise is my favourite part of TWINE, one of my least favourite Bond films. She gets the comedy in her role and delivers her line with lightness and a spark of energy pretty much every other character is lacking (with, perhaps, the exception of Robbie.) I especially hate it when people say that "she doesn't look like a nuclear physicist." Tell me, what does a nuclear physicist look like? Because I happen to know several physicists, chemists, geologists, ... and I can honestly say that some of them really do look "fresh". We're not all dusty, old, or crazy Doc Brown types. Accepting Denise in her role was, in fact, one of the easier tasks for me regarding TWINE.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,592
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I tend to go easy on DAD - it's like everyone just let their hair down to celebrate 40 years and 20 films. TLD was EON's black tie event anniversary film, and DAD was the anniversary after party.

    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?

    I'm kidding. DAD isn't my favourite Bond film by any means but it has its moments for me. I enjoyed it when I first watched it and I can enjoy it now despite its flaws. I don't even think it's the worst of the Brosnan era.

    Yeah, Brosnan shines brighter when he makes Moore-style movies than when he tries to be more serious.

    Well, sort of. I think his performance in GE is actually pretty great, and that’s effectively a ‘serious’ Bond movie.
    I think it’s just about what his comfort zone was as an actor and what they got him to do. I think in GE, TND and a lot of DAD there’s an understated ‘less is more’ quality to him even during certain scenes (ie. the hotel scene with Paris or the beach scene in GE. He’s not actually doing much as an actor in those scenes and it works). In TWINE for some reason his performance is dialled up and can be hammy (he looks as if he’s trying to burst into tears when watching Elektra’s video which even in context is silly, then there’s his OTT soap opera-style reaction to Renard’s ‘if you can’t feel alive’ line… and of course his ‘shouldaaar’). It happens in DAD too but much less (‘someone betrayed me and I’m going afftaar them’)
    QBranch wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    The one where everyone drank too much and regretted everything they'd done the next day?
    Heh, liver not too good. Especially when it's bad!

    Brosnan is very good and holds it all together. He doesn't revel in the puns too much. I find it more entertaining than TWINE. The gadget redesigns like the breather and laser watch are very cool

    I think once he gets to Cuba he actually looks pretty confident and he hits his stride. Again, I suppose a nitpicky criticism is he really doesn’t seem like a Bond who’s been tortured for a year and is hell bent on figuring out what’s happened! It feels like he’s giving a performance that should be in another film, but that’s not his fault really considering the direction the film takes.

    Well, I don't like GE that much. I don't think Dalton could save the movie either. It's a boring and bland movie IMO.

    TND is the type of movie that suits Brosnan best, IMO.


    DAD is quite silly but it has the fun factor. It's not ashamed of itself like other Bond movies.

    TWINE needed a better director, someone with more punch.

    I personally think there’s a great Bond film in TWINE, and I agree a different director would have helped a lot. Same for some of the casting (I like Robert Carlyle but he’s all wrong for the part of Renard).

    Great point. I’d also argue that Denise Richards was another miscast, which is a shame considering the hassle she received from critics/audiences.

    I disagree on Denise. Most of the critics say she's too pretty to be a scientist, which is obviously utter nonsense. The problem lies within the script. With a few tweaks she'd come over as beeing far more intelligent. Take the ride on the inspection vehicle with the bomb. Bond says' look at this', she reacts 'someone tampered with the bomb'. No shit sherlock! If Bond had said 'look at this, someone tampered with the bomb', all she'd have to say is something on the lines of s***t, and it would seem she'd be quite smart.

    I don’t quite get the issue there. She looks smarter understanding it herself than if she had had to have been explicitly told by Bond, surely.
  • edited June 9 Posts: 4,295
    My only major issue with Richards is her delivery is a bit forced, including in that instance. It’s not that she doesn’t look like a nuclear physicist (a nuclear physicist can indeed be a stunningly beautiful woman, especially in a Bond film) but that she doesn’t always come across as a nuclear physicist if that makes sense. Basically her performance isn’t that strong.

    It’s a bit of a miscast, but not necessarily a major one. Jones has the benefit of being placed against Elektra in this film, the latter being a sort of rogue version of Tracy/someone Bond genuinely falls for. Jones on the other hand is her opposite - where Elektra is seductive and mysterious, Jones is more brash and to the point, and while she’s not a love of Bond’s life character she’s capable. So with that in mind she works as a character for me. Again, I think it’s Carlyle’s miscasting that sometimes ruins that film. Just completely the wrong character for him to play. I have an easier time believing Richards is a nuclear physicist than Carlyle is some charismatic anarchist terrorist like Renard.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 154
    I never really thought of Carlyle as miscast. The main villain tends to have some mystery, charisma, etc. And TWINE has this, but thats because Elektra is the villain - Renard is just a brainwashed lackey who got scooped up by Elektra into doing her dirty work. He didn't need to tick the Bad Guy boxes, he was supposed to divert the attention and make you think he was the bad guy - and for 12 year old me at the cinema, it worked! Not saying its a good reason, but the impact as a 12 year can stay with you, which is why TWINE (just) scrapes into my Top 10 Bonds. Perhaps he should've worked on/dropped the accent though, or gone full Begbie :D

    The biggest issue I had with Denise Richards/Christmas Jones was just that the character fell a bit flat. If she was written out completely, the film wouldn't really miss her, and could have provided a bit more depth to Elektra being killed by Bond. Instead, he still got The Girl, because that was part of the formula. In fact, given the script she had to work with, I always kinda figured this was the case and she was hastily written in as an afterthought.
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