Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

12021222325

Comments

  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 142
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    My favourite song of the series, it perfectly fit Casino and Daniel's new harder edge interpretation of Bond.

    I don't know what it is but I still find the word "stupid" jarring in the NTTD song. I have no idea why it just doesn't feel right in a Bond song
    Similarly, Adele’s American pronunciation of ‘overdue’ in SF mildly ruins an otherwise great song for me. It always grates and takes me out of the song. TSWLM just about tops CR for me in terms of the overall series - both being perfect themes for those movies.
  • Posts: 4,139
    meshypushy wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    My favourite song of the series, it perfectly fit Casino and Daniel's new harder edge interpretation of Bond.

    I don't know what it is but I still find the word "stupid" jarring in the NTTD song. I have no idea why it just doesn't feel right in a Bond song
    Similarly, Adele’s American pronunciation of ‘overdue’ in SF mildly ruins an otherwise great song for me. It always grates and takes me out of the song. TSWLM just about tops CR for me in terms of the overall series - both being perfect themes for those movies.

    I love that song, but Adele’s pronunciation is very particular. I remember when it was released there being a few ‘is this a song about scaffolds’ jokes.
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 142
    007HallY wrote: »
    I love that song, but Adele’s pronunciation is very particular. I remember when it was released there being a few ‘is this a song about scaffolds’ jokes.
    There has been a trend in recent years of British singers adopting US accents (Adele and Ed Sheeran being two examples) - both are obviously successful in that market, so I guess it’s working for them. I just find it a little cynical and that word in SF always grates!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 18 Posts: 16,382
    meshypushy wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I love that song, but Adele’s pronunciation is very particular. I remember when it was released there being a few ‘is this a song about scaffolds’ jokes.
    There has been a trend in recent years of British singers adopting US accents

    That's not really recent: it goes all the way back to the start of pop music. Matt Monro and Tom Jones aren't exactly sounding hugely British in their Bond songs for instance.
    There's an argument that if you're doing, say, Blues music, then an American accent is part of the equipment as much as an American blues guitar is because they invented the sound. See Jagger.

    Not everyone did it of course, and there is quite a funny recording of a pre-fame Bowie doing a cover of the Beatles' Penny Lane where he affects a sort of cod Liverpudlian accent!
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 142
    mtm wrote: »
    meshypushy wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I love that song, but Adele’s pronunciation is very particular. I remember when it was released there being a few ‘is this a song about scaffolds’ jokes.
    There has been a trend in recent years of British singers adopting US accents

    That's not really recent: it goes all the way back to the start of pop music. Matt Monro and Tom Jones aren't exactly sounding hugely British in their Bond songs for instance.
    There's an argument that if you're doing, say, Blues music, then an American accent is part of the equipment as much as an American blues guitar is because they invented the sound. See Jagger.

    Not everyone did it of course, and there is quite a funny recording of a pre-fame Bowie doing a cover of the Beatles' Penny Lane where he affects a sort of cod Liverpudlian accent!
    Yep - that is true, of course. For me, with the likes of The Stones, it felt that they were being true to how they felt the music should sound at that time (as with other British bands of the era who were listening to Muddy Waters et al and had no precedent for what that music should sound like if performed in a non-US accent). It feels to me that some of the contemporary artists are adapting their voices to sell, as opposed to doing it to be authentic to their art. That’s why it bugs me and it’s the very obvious examples in certain songs that jump out.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 18 Posts: 16,382
    I think the Stones were trying to sell records! And UK pop music in every decade is like that- Elton John hasn't exactly been singing in a London accent for the last 50 years.
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 142
    mtm wrote: »
    I think the Stones were trying to sell records! And UK pop music in every decade is like that- Elton John hasn't exactly been singing in a London accent for the last 50 years.
    Very true - the lines between authenticity, cultural appropriation and commercialism are quite blurred! ‘Overdoo’ always grates with me though.
  • Posts: 4,139
    ‘Lift the scaffold,’
    ‘Apple crumble,
    We will stand taaawl
    and face it all together,
    A scaffold…


    Ok, maybe she doesn’t sound quite like that!
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 142
    007HallY wrote: »
    ‘Lift the scaffold,’
    ‘Apple crumble,
    We will stand taaawl
    and face it all together,
    A scaffold…


    Ok, maybe she doesn’t sound quite like that!
    I hadn’t heard it in that way before but it’s going to be difficult to unhear it after that! This really deserves a separate thread….
    I am reminded of that demo of Bono performing Goldeneye in his best Quentin Crisp accent


  • Posts: 4,139
    meshypushy wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    ‘Lift the scaffold,’
    ‘Apple crumble,
    We will stand taaawl
    and face it all together,
    A scaffold…


    Ok, maybe she doesn’t sound quite like that!
    I hadn’t heard it in that way before but it’s going to be difficult to unhear it after that! This really deserves a separate thread….
    I am reminded of that demo of Bono performing Goldeneye in his best Quentin Crisp accent


    Never heard of that before listening to it now! Very weird...
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 142
    007HallY wrote: »
    Never heard of that before listening to it now! Very weird...
    That was the original demo that Bono and The Edge knocked up to send to Tina Turner. Thankfully, she accepted the job and nailed it!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    Quite interesting he sings 'with a goldeneye' in the chorus(?), whereas Tina just sings 'goldeneye' at the start of every line.
  • meshypushymeshypushy Ireland
    Posts: 142
    mtm wrote: »
    Quite interesting he sings 'with a goldeneye' in the chorus(?), whereas Tina just sings 'goldeneye' at the start of every line.
    I had always assumed that U2 had no visibility on the script and assumed that the villain was named ‘Goldeneye’ (that being, a dude with an actual golden eye). To tie this back to the thread - clearly unlike Billie Eilish with NTTD.
    If Bono had kept that style of voice and was striving for something more in line with the actual Goldeneye script, he could have knocked up something like ‘Boris’ Exploding Pen’, in the style of ‘Maxwell’s Silver Hammer’.
    Credit to ChatGPT for the following:

    **(Verse 1)**
    Boris had a pen, a funny little pen,
    Kept it in his pocket, never knew when
    Click one, click two, just for fun
    But three’s the charm and the trouble's begun

    **(Chorus)**
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Made a mess, time and again
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Nobody knew quite when

    **(Verse 2)**
    Boris in the office, trying to impress
    Clicked his pen twice, no one could guess
    Colleagues all around, chatting so free
    Clicking once more, then calamity!

    **(Chorus)**
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Made a mess, time and again
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Nobody knew quite when

    **(Bridge)**
    Pen parts flying everywhere,
    Paper scattered, ink in hair
    Boris grins, he’s got a flair
    For the unexpected scare

    **(Verse 3)**
    Boris at a meeting, with a big-time client
    Clicked his pen twice, hoping to be silent
    Third time's a blast, ink sprays the wall
    Client’s wide-eyed, in the conference hall

    **(Chorus)**
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Made a mess, time and again
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Nobody knew quite when

    **(Outro)**
    Boris laughs and gives a wink,
    “Just a pen with a little kink”
    But when you see him click two times,
    Better cover up, you don’t want to find...

    **(Final Chorus)**
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Made a mess, time and again
    Bang, bang, Boris's exploding pen
    Nobody knew quite when

    **(Ending)**
    So if you see Boris with that pen,
    Remember the tale, my friend
    Don’t let him click it, time number three,
    Or you'll be part of the hilarity!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 18 Posts: 6,296
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    My favourite song of the series, it perfectly fit Casino and Daniel's new harder edge interpretation of Bond.

    I don't know what it is but I still find the word "stupid" jarring in the NTTD song. I have no idea why it just doesn't feel right in a Bond song

    Of the Craig era, I prefer YKMN and NTTD. SF I find slightly overrated, or maybe just overplayed (not unlike GF).

    None of these, except for GF, however, can touch NDIB, LALD, DAF, YOLT, or AVTAK, though.
  • Posts: 1,985
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    I second that. YKMN is a fantastic rock tune. I'm hoping the next Bond film gives us something like this again, or at least along the lines of LALD, AVTAK, or TLD.

    I like the tune, but it never quite goes anywhere. Skyfall has the best Craig song and score.

    On this we disagree. I like Adele as a personality far more than I like her music. For me the lyrics of SF feel as if the writer watched the opening credits with a dictionary at her side. SF, WOTW, and NTTD all award winners, but feel quite sophomoric.

    The lyrics of YKMN are explosive.

    Arm yourself because no-one else here will save you
    The odds will betray you
    And I will replace you
    You can't deny the prize it may never fulfill you
    It longs to kill you
    Are you willing to die?

    as compared to

    This is the end
    Hold your breath and count to ten (seriously?)
    Feel the earth move and then
    Hear my heart burst again

    or

    I've been here before
    But always hit the floor (what does this mean?)
    I've spent a lifetime running
    And I always get away
    But with you I'm feeling something
    That makes me want to stay

    or

    We were a pair
    But I saw you there
    Too much to bear (childlike rhyming)

    One of the best lyricists was George Michael. I would have loved his take on a Bond song.




  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    @CrabKey yeah absolutely George Michael would have made an excellent Bond song
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 18 Posts: 16,382
    CrabKey wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Of the Craig films, CR is the best music and the best lyrics.

    I second that. YKMN is a fantastic rock tune. I'm hoping the next Bond film gives us something like this again, or at least along the lines of LALD, AVTAK, or TLD.

    I like the tune, but it never quite goes anywhere. Skyfall has the best Craig song and score.

    On this we disagree. I like Adele as a personality far more than I like her music. For me the lyrics of SF feel as if the writer watched the opening credits with a dictionary at her side. SF, WOTW, and NTTD all award winners, but feel quite sophomoric.

    The lyrics of YKMN are explosive.

    Arm yourself because no-one else here will save you
    The odds will betray you
    And I will replace you
    You can't deny the prize it may never fulfill you
    It longs to kill you
    Are you willing to die?

    as compared to

    This is the end
    Hold your breath and count to ten (seriously?)
    Feel the earth move and then
    Hear my heart burst again

    or

    I've been here before
    But always hit the floor (what does this mean?)
    I've spent a lifetime running
    And I always get away
    But with you I'm feeling something
    That makes me want to stay

    or

    We were a pair
    But I saw you there
    Too much to bear (childlike rhyming)

    One of the best lyricists was George Michael. I would have loved his take on a Bond song.




    I know the lyrics: Skyfall is the better song. Top ten both sides of the Atlantic, won an Oscar etc. I could write 'what does this mean' after 'the odds will betray you', or 'terrible grammar' after 'You can't deny the prize it may never fulfil you' but it would be nitpicking. Songs don’t have to make literal sense or adhere to grammar to be good; they’re poetic works; and I’d hardly claim that A View To A Kill isn’t a great song just because its lyrics are a total nonsense word salad, which they are.
    SF has more soul, more depth, and stunning production. YKMN is a fun tune but never quite takes off; feels like an idea which never quite develops fully and Cornell's voice carries little emotion. I enjoy it, it works in the film but I don't love it, it's quite dad rock.
  • Posts: 7,417
    SF is drab and dreary
    YKMN is way better
  • Posts: 2,266
    I also find Adele’s “Skyfall” a bit boring, and I’m not a fan of the next two titles songs either. YKMN just gets my adrenaline rushing every time I hear the song, and when playing over CR’s titles; gets me excited for what follows. SF in comparison has been so overplayed by Pop radio to the point of redundancy. I actively go out of my way to skip the song whenever I listen to any of the main titles in a playlist, and try to “tune out” the song when it plays over the titles of the film.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Yeah, I'd have to go with the YKMN love on this one - it's still one of the best Bond songs. Skyfall is no slouch either and Adele really nails it, but of the two I find Cornell's to be the one I revisit more often.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Yeah, I'd have to go with the YKMN love on this one - it's still one of the best Bond songs. Skyfall is no slouch either and Adele really nails it, but of the two I find Cornell's to be the one I revisit more often.

    Two different tones, but I love them both equally.
  • Posts: 1,985
    @mtm - Dad rock. You make me laugh.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited June 19 Posts: 7,118
    Personally I quite like NTTD, perhaps because I also quite like Eilish's style in general.

    Kudos though to the person who mentioned George Michael, I was and still am a big fan of his music.

    I'd also have to admit though, I can appreciate a song with good lyrics for sure, but I wouldn't say a superb tune can be ruined by the lyrics. At least not for me. I can listen to music in Serbian, which I don't understand, and love it.

    As far as the actual music score is concerned, I think QOS has the best score of the Craig era.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    I rather like the Craig era theme songs, though AWTD is a bit of a challenge still. YKMN is the Red Bull of the bunch, SF the sweet, powerful ballad, SP a delicate, slightly bitter tune, and NTTD a unexpected gem.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 19 Posts: 2,016
    For me, YKMN is the best. I'll never forget the electric feeling the song and CR's gunbarrel sequence gave me, the very first time I watched the film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    For me, YKMN is the best. I'll never forget the electric feeling the song and CR's gunbarrel sequence gave me, the very first time I watched the film.

    I agree. YKMN and the amazing Kleinman titles go hand-in-hand. One elevates the other.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    For me, YKMN is the best. I'll never forget the electric feeling the song and CR's gunbarrel sequence gave me, the very first time I watched the film.

    I agree. YKMN and the amazing Kleinman titles go hand-in-hand. One elevates the other.

    Exactly. The two are so much in sync!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    For me, YKMN is the best. I'll never forget the electric feeling the song and CR's gunbarrel sequence gave me, the very first time I watched the film.

    I agree. YKMN and the amazing Kleinman titles go hand-in-hand. One elevates the other.

    Exactly. The two are so much in sync!

    To be frank, I usually get that impression. AWTD is not a particularly good song in my opinion ("bang bang bang bang") but along with the not-so-good-either opening titles, it creates an inviting effect that makes me want to stay nevertheless. I was never fond of Madonna's DAD ("analyse this this this this..."), but somehow Kleinman found the proper visuals to "vibe" with the song.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 19 Posts: 16,382
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @mtm - Dad rock. You make me laugh.

    Sure. Regardless, it isn't really a proper rock song; it's all a bit cheesy and the unenthusiastic vocal (Cornell reminds me of his contemporary Dave Grohl: they both shout at the top of their voice but somehow without any passion at all) makes it all very MOR. It's fun, I enjoy it, I'm certainly not going to be silly enough to proclaim either of these songs are terrible or anything when they're clearly both very good but it's not the best (probably the best since GoldenEye though). I agree that Kleinman's superb title sequence elevates it.
    AWTD is far more of a proper rock song; the guitars and drumming are superb (probably the best drums on any Bond song), the memphis-ish horns really blare out, and I love the stabs under the chorus. It's got a proper rock drive to it. Doesn't make it a better song, I think it has its problems, but in terms which is MOR and which is closer to proper rock it's clear. If there were some way of combining the best bits from the two I think you'd have a cracker.
    The only song I would say I actively dislike in the entire series would probably be WOTW, and even then that has some nice strings. All Time High probably makes a better love theme in the score than song perhaps.

    EDIT: I just found this article about AWTD and I think it's a good read. It's quite fair-minded, certainly not praising it as a total success or anything:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/another-way-to-die-bond-theme-b1924787.html
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Yeah, I'd have to go with the YKMN love on this one - it's still one of the best Bond songs. Skyfall is no slouch either and Adele really nails it, but of the two I find Cornell's to be the one I revisit more often.

    Two different tones, but I love them both equally.

    That's fair. I'm similar to yourself.
Sign In or Register to comment.