Would you rather Bond return to his cultural knowledge OR Bond return to the one-liner?

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,972
    I'll go with Dr. No - he's stoic but polite enough, and I'd clearly get to enjoy my food and some lavish surroundings before he got rid of me.
  • Posts: 2,270
    peter wrote: »
    Dr No would be far too serious and he'd treat me as an inconvenience (and still expect a good tip)... Tee-Hee has humour, a great voice, and, although I may have some of my food spilled on me, I think I'd have a pretty good time with him (so long as he's not serving raw chicken)!


    I don’t know @peter, but Tee-Hee strikes me as the kind of guy who’d stick his claw in your food for pointing out an issue with his service.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    Dr No would be far too serious and he'd treat me as an inconvenience (and still expect a good tip)... Tee-Hee has humour, a great voice, and, although I may have some of my food spilled on me, I think I'd have a pretty good time with him (so long as he's not serving raw chicken)!


    I don’t know @peter, but Tee-Hee strikes me as the kind of guy who’d stick his claw in your food for pointing out an issue with his service.

    😂 😂 😂, very true. But if Mr. Tee-Hee does this in the kitchen, I can’t get upset (what I can’t see, I can’t see!)….

    But the doctor would not only treat me as an annoyance, he’d also likely say I’m nothing more than a stupid Torontonian. And I’d think he’d most definitely spit in my soup. In front of me. And, once he’s done that, he’d stand straight with his hand out, expecting a minimum 25% tip!
  • Posts: 2,270
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Dr No would be far too serious and he'd treat me as an inconvenience (and still expect a good tip)... Tee-Hee has humour, a great voice, and, although I may have some of my food spilled on me, I think I'd have a pretty good time with him (so long as he's not serving raw chicken)!


    I don’t know @peter, but Tee-Hee strikes me as the kind of guy who’d stick his claw in your food for pointing out an issue with his service.

    😂 😂 😂, very true. But if Mr. Tee-Hee does this in the kitchen, I can’t get upset (what I can’t see, I can’t see!)….

    But the doctor would not only treat me as an annoyance, he’d also likely say I’m nothing more than a stupid Torontonian. And I’d think he’d most definitely spit in my soup. In front of me. And, once he’s done that, he’d stand straight with his hand out, expecting a minimum 25% tip!

    Yes interesting points, I guess it’s a good thing none of these men decided to go into the Restaurant business. I’d say Nick Nack is probably the best option out of all the Bond villains to have serve as a waiter, plus he has experience! 😂😂
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,429
    We are blessed to have an occurrence where a film was remade. Thunderball which some find plodding and dull was remade into Never Say Never Again. You can see that McClory tried to do some different things and maybe course correct the mistakes of the first film.

    Which one would you rather watch?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,972
    Please don't take me out back and shoot me but purely from an entertainment standpoint, I'd go with NSNA.
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 61
    Thunderball all day long from the jet pack and aston to the excellent underwater battle ,for the bombastic theme song and for one of barry's best scores of the series.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,034
    I'm biased because I saw NSNA first, even in a movie theatre, when most film critics (at least in Germany) were united in their opinion that it was so much better than its almost-direct competitor, OP. And I saw NSNA several times again, which must have been on tape in the late 80s or early 90s, so I sort of internalized it as a movie of its own before ever coming across TB, which must have been in the 90s.

    I still think that NSNA is not just a better Bond movie than OP, but also at least more entertaining and enjoyable than TB. Neither is perfect (I could have done without Nigel Small-Fawcett, for instance), but yes, I'm among those that consider TB tedious in parts. Plus Brandauer makes a far better Largo than Adolfo Celi, while Barbara Carrera competes quite successfully with Luciana Paluzzi - I wouldn't know which one to prefer. The only aspect in which TB really stands out is John Barry's score, although I don't hate Michel Legrand's effort either. At least it's better than, say, Bill Conti's FYEO and some elements of Eric Serra's GE scores.

    All in all, I'd definitely rather watch NSNA if I want to have a good time.
  • For me, both are bottom of the barrel stuff and do much worse than the novel. While it was a day or so after a long flight, Thunderball put me to sleep, and in full condition, NSNA bored me to the point of stopping and finishing later.

    The Petacchi nonsense is quite crazy: he doesn't need to be drugged up, or a clone or have the fingerprint of the president. He can just be a greedy SPECTRE agent/sub-operator, the film doesn't need to be spending time on all this.

    The nature of Count Lippe is botched in both adaptations: he becomes quite useless and unthreatening. NSNA gets a point for an intelligent adaptation of the "Rack".

    NSNA trying to do the globe-hopping element turns me off immediately. Why does the story need to move all over the place? There is no time to globe-hop, nuclear missiles at risk here.

    I suppose if I have to give it to one it would be Thunderball, only on the case of Domino
  • Posts: 4,153
    Not a big fan of either, but I think TB is the better of the two. NSNA is a bit of a slog to get through for me.
  • Posts: 15,122
    Thunderball, without hesitation.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,182
    I choose TB, which in 1965 looked and sounded like it was made 5 minutes into the future. NSNA, by comparison, looked and sounded in 1983 like it was made 5 years before, for television.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited May 11 Posts: 13,797
    TB over NSNA.

    But I love 'em both of course.

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  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,209
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I choose TB, which in 1965 looked and sounded like it was made 5 minutes into the future. NSNA, by comparison, looked and sounded in 1983 like it was made 5 years before, for television.

    I really wish this had been made 5 years earlier. Look at Sean in The Great Train Robbery ; he really was looking great and at the top of his game. They could have gotten Michael Crichton to direct; he did a great job with Train Robbery . It was stylish, sexy and exciting.
  • Posts: 1,990
    "He always runs while others walk" over "You walk in a room, a woman can feel the heat."
  • Posts: 1,860
    THUNDERBALL! Every time.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,579
    Both are great but I can't get enough of all that panther stalking and snooping around Shrublands and Palmyra at night. I miss all of that danger in the shadows stuff.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,124
    TB 100% it is in my top 3 Bond films.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,126
    I must admit that I really like both.

    NSNA is always somewhere between 15 and 20 in my ranking, I especially enjoy the French Riviera segment, I just love that atmosphere. Brandauer and Carrera are also excellent villains and Casey is my very favourite Felix.

    TB, though, is one of my very favourites atm. Talking about atmosphere, this one is just classy 60's travel elegance from Bond's arrival in the Bahamas onwards, and before that we get some 007 sneakiness at Shrublands. All great fun. Not to mention Luciana Paluzzi, one of the best Bond foes ever.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,579
    Both have excellent dialogue too. First conversation that came to mind:

    "You know if they found me here they'd fire me on the spot."
    "I won't let anyone find you. Don't worry. I have my reputation to think of."
    "I don't think you got your reputation by living on a diet of wild rice."
  • edited May 11 Posts: 1,360
    I like them both. It's the same story after all. I love them for the same reasons.

    They can make another version if they want.


    TB is more epic and NSNA is more Goldfinger-esque.

    TB is better movie overall, but the pacing in NSNA is better.

    For me it is a difficult decision. Maybe NSNA, it flows better.
  • Posts: 7,426
    I like both films, though admit I hated NSNA when I first saw it on release, and I used to think TB was a bit of a slog to get through. Had a great viewing of TB recently, and both have gone up in my estimations! At a push, I will probably go with young Connery than old!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Thunderball. It's lush.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Thunderball easily for me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 11 Posts: 16,401
    TB's got more style and the texture is just more pleasing, but I think as a film NSNA probably works a little better as the plot makes a little more sense and the pace doesn't flag as much (all just IMHO of course). I think, excluding Paluzzi, NSNA has a better cast too (although as JW says above, Carrera is fantastic as well and I'd be hard pressed to say which I prefer).

    To be honest I think they should have pushed the adaptation a bit further: NSNA sticks quite closely to the original plot and where it does diverge I think shows they could have diverged a little more in places. I don't think the original source material is the strongest in the canon and needs a pep up which neither film really gives it enough of.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I'd go with Thunderball, day and night.

    The original film is richer in exotic sexiness of the Bahamas, Connery looking his best, and his performance was executed with intoxicating charisma and coolness; the women were drop dead, and Domino was certainly a bird with a broken wing, and Fiona has never been bettered (although Fatima Blush is incredible, Carrera stepped over the line into (a fun, but) OTT performance; Paluzzi was always in control, and that not only made her sexy, but more dangerous). The Barry soundtrack was exciting in some places, and as dream-like as the exotic settings in others.

    Where NSNA takes the win is Brandauer, and his top-notch performance as Largo. He was tightly coiled, a barely in control psychotic that certainly scared me as a kid when I watched this film, and still does now.

    By no means is NSNA at the bottom of the Bond films, and it has some nice things going for it, but I'll take Thunderball....
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 11 Posts: 16,401
    peter wrote: »

    Where NSNA takes the win is Brandauer, and his top-notch performance as Largo. He was tightly coiled, a barely in control psychotic that certainly scared me as a kid when I watched this film, and still does now.

    I know I always say it, but I almost think Connery could have sued Cubby for making the villain in his next film a young psychotic guy with blond hair called Max :D

    Mind you, he didn't really have a leg to stand on with Blofeld's white cat and a character called Q :))


  • edited May 11 Posts: 1,360
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    Where NSNA takes the win is Brandauer, and his top-notch performance as Largo. He was tightly coiled, a barely in control psychotic that certainly scared me as a kid when I watched this film, and still does now.

    I know I always say it, but I almost think Connery could have sued Cubby for making the villain in his next film a young psychotic guy with blond hair called Max :D

    Mind you, he didn't really have a leg to stand on with Blofeld's white cat and a character called Q :))

    Cats are cats. No one invented them except God ;)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    Where NSNA takes the win is Brandauer, and his top-notch performance as Largo. He was tightly coiled, a barely in control psychotic that certainly scared me as a kid when I watched this film, and still does now.

    I know I always say it, but I almost think Connery could have sued Cubby for making the villain in his next film a young psychotic guy with blond hair called Max :D

    Mind you, he didn't really have a leg to stand on with Blofeld's white cat and a character called Q :))

    😂, very true.

    How did they get away with Blofeld's white cat and Q (these were EoN's inventions, not Fleming, nor the novel of Thunderball)?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 11 Posts: 16,401
    peter wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »

    Where NSNA takes the win is Brandauer, and his top-notch performance as Largo. He was tightly coiled, a barely in control psychotic that certainly scared me as a kid when I watched this film, and still does now.

    I know I always say it, but I almost think Connery could have sued Cubby for making the villain in his next film a young psychotic guy with blond hair called Max :D

    Mind you, he didn't really have a leg to stand on with Blofeld's white cat and a character called Q :))

    😂, very true.

    How did they get away with Blofeld's white cat and Q (these were EoN's inventions, not Fleming, nor the novel of Thunderball)?

    Beats me! I guess maybe they banked on Eon not thinking it was worth the trouble. I suppose Casino Royale had done a version of Q too so the waters had been tested.
    peter wrote: »
    Paluzzi was always in control, and that not only made her sexy, but more dangerous

    My issue is that the film isn't big enough: it doesn't feel like a sequel to Goldfinger like YOLT does- it feels like what it is: a script written before the Bond films got successful. So they should have made it crazier, and I think NSNA should have done that too.

    I think they should have done something like landed the Vulcan on a runway which rises out of the sea or something- stored it in a base under Palmerya. And make the plan less dull: maybe say they're ransoming the UK but in fact they're going to let the bomb off right where they are and create a tidal wave which destroys Florida and Cuba (then make loads of money by swooping in and rebuilding them) - and frame 007 for the explosion as revenge for Dr No and Red Grant (and Bouvar I guess)!
    Largo doesn't know this though- he thinks it's in Washington, but Blofeld kept him in the dark: when Fiona reveals this to him she kills him! Then, she tries to make her getaway in the Vulcan, but Bond (or Domino) stops it taking off and destroys it and the base. Maybe with his jetpack :D

    I dunno, maybe that's all very silly, but I wish it were sillier. Having the bombs thousands of miles away just makes it duller and reduces the personal stakes, and the ransom plot is no way as interesting or clever as Goldfinger's plan- and I want more Fiona!
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