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I know what you mean. It’s such an interesting idea for a set piece with the helicopters and buzzsaw, and Bond is running around doing cool stuff with the Bond theme going. It feels like the point in the film where Bond should be back on his game after his injury/being thrown off with Elektra. I don’t know what it is though, it never quite feels like that (and for some reason they keep a shot of Bond falling on his face/shoulder with Brosnan giving the weirdest groan/expression, which sort of negates Bond being 100% again). It’s never been a memorable sequence for me. Then there’s the weird bit at the end with Zukovsky ‘drowning’ in what looks like a very small and not too deep pool of caviar, seemingly having temporarily lost the ability to move to the edge. The one liners as well from Bond and Jones… oof.
I do like the car getting sawed in half though. It’s a nice little subversion as we think it’s going to be a big part of the set piece. It’s also another way SF I think tries to redo some of TWINE - I always feel the attack with Silva’s helicopters, blowing up the Aston, and then the house is very similar to this sequence, but I find that one a lot more impactful (I think it’s because the film does a better job at showing us Bond is back on his game, and they use the Bond theme a bit more sparingly/save it for when he sees the Aston getting destroyed, which is a Bondian moment I find has been earned).
That scene bugged me from day 1. Zukowski and Christmas run around like in a Benny Hill sketch. Arnold struggles with keeping the rhythm in his music going, since most of these moments are slooooow. The buzzsaw gimmick overstayed its welcome. And the whole thing ended with Valentin about to drown (!) in a vat of caviar. Thank you but no thank you.
Two things I like about this: Bond has a little "obstacle course" to navigate where it's just him and the P99 doing all the talking. I like that moment. And the joke about the insurance company never going to believe it? Yeah, that one works for me (as one of the few jokes in this entire film.)
Yeah, I used to enjoy it, but returning to it when the Bond theme comes in really big it sort of feels like it's trying to persuade me that the scene is more exciting and Bondier than it actually is. Which I guess is the music's job, but it felt poorly judged to me this time. Oddly one of the times where I feel like the Bond theme isn't earned and perhaps shouldn't be there.
It actually makes me think the Craig films' approach of not leaning on it constantly was perhaps right.
Yes, some of those groans feel poorly edited: like the sequence stops for a bit for them and you become aware he's filming it on a different day to everything else. The pace isn't maintained.
Folks complain about QoS but I feel like TWINE is actually one of the worst-edited 007 films: there are lots of slightly jarring moments like that and the pace flags dangerously.
Yes, the car sawing is good fun, although I'm glad I wasn't a little kid when I saw it as it's up there with FYEO's Lotus in the disappointment stakes! :)
Agree about the SF comparison too, it is bizarre how these films can be connected sometimes. As you mention it, I'm afraid I just plain prefer the SF/SP scores too- they're classier and more stylish for my money. Everything about SF and SP, when put next to TWINE, just feels like a more sophisticated, luxury product, and that's what I think Bond films should be. They're total action hokum in a hand-stitched, leather-lined case.
It seems EON don't really push for certain directors those days like they do these days. They should have really lured Campbell or Spottiswoode back for TWINE.
I think Apted was a good actor's director, but action wasn't his forte. That shouldn't have been an issue either, since the Bond family has its second units and action crew and such. I prefer the action of TND and DAD to the action of TWINE.
I think you are right. Eon hired Apted because they wanted to bring more character drama to Bond, dive deeper in Bond's psychology, unfortunately the script stumbled in those areas, not quite finding the right balance between the plot, drama, action and humor. SF is far superior in that regard. TWINE is like a dry run for SF.
That was the problem, I guess. This movie has "two directors".
Maybe Cuaron declined or something, so Barbara had to go with Apted. Apted is a good director too, but as mentioned a few times above, action and Bond weren't his things. Although, TWINE does have some cool Bondian moments here and there. The action scenes were there, but the action didn't move like previous Bond films.
It usually isn't a problem, provided the director works well with the rest of the team. Apted is not a standalone case, I think.
For Bond it really shouldn’t be a problem. In fact it’s a necessity for the director to be able to work with various different creatives (as it is for all directors on pretty much any film).
I’m not that familiar with Apted’s work, but he was definitely an accomplished director. I think he gets a bit of flack here for a lot of his directorial decisions (and to be fair the blocking/tone/acting in some of the more dramatic scenes of TWINE feel a bit Soap Opera and hammy, and obviously he’d worked on them for a number of years in the UK when he started). I think it might just genuinely come down to not really getting Bond (I think if you’re not familiar with a lot of Bond lore or go into it trying to understand a lot of this stuff - in this case Bond’s past with Tracy - it’s a bit tricky really nailing Bond’s relationship with Elektra on a deeper level as you need to understand the character. Same for perhaps getting a lot of those more Fleming-esque aspects to work in the context of a movie, and that’s not even going into how to nail the right sense of Bondian movie style).
I think Broccoli wasn’t a fan of one of Jackson’s movies which came out before TWINE, so went off him (I don’t know why/which movie exactly though). Shame about Cuaron. I can imagine him doing something interesting.
And Apted, is not an exception in the list.
I don't know if Safin and Nomi were butchered in the editing room. The movie is very long but it seems incomplete.
The James Bond Film Guide lists NTTD at 174 minutes. Either that’s a typo or there was further editing to get it down to the 163 minutes it is.
Better theme song by a more humble artist/group; better Q-Boat (at least the TWINE boat wasn't just a background prop); better boat ride out of MI6 headquarters; better watch gadgets (best of the Brosnan era for me), more memorable and wider range of minor characters (even if most of them didn't do a whole lot - the video game would make up for some of that e.g. Gabor gets more involved); more unique action and ideas like the Parahawks, pipeline rig; buzzsaw helicopters.
Yes, the ski scene and caviar factory action felt staged, like a stunt show at Movie World, but the general location in the Caspian Sea looked beautiful around night time.
This was actually a tough round at first, but I'm thinking back to which film I enjoyed more in the cinema and it's TWINE. Happy 25th this year!
I actually think it’s for the best Boyle didn’t direct NTTD. The script wasn’t seemingly in its best shape and he walked because he didn’t want other writers involved (which is a mind blowing and arguably incredibly stupid thing for a director on a Bond film - or indeed any multi million pound budget film - to do, especially considering how much creative input him and Hodge had been given). Anyway, on paper I don’t think his film would have been radically different to NTTD (ie. A retired Bond being called back on a rogue mission/him dying at the end by sacrificing himself, the megalomaniac Villian with a big set piece/world domination plot for the finale).
Apparently it was The Frighteners which I’ve never seen. I know it was a bit of a bomb though and it was the first time Jackson handled a multi million pound budget.
I didn't know that, @Mallory. Interesting bit of trivia. I wonder what was cut, if it isn't a typo.
Every big action film you’ve watched, minus Nolan, has a second unit director in place to shoot the action.
(Hence why some ppl think Nolan’s action sequences were a little lacking).
I really don't know. Again, it's not a film I've ever watched. My only suspicion is perhaps it was in part due to how unsuccessful it was compared to its budget, but most likely her not thinking he made the best use of the story/budget which put her off. Obviously Jackson would direct Lord of The Rings a bit later but you never truly know what could have been when it comes to Bond. It really seems a very difficult job. And it's worth noting that Jackson has had his failures which I can understand people being put off by (The Lovely Bones and The Hobbit being the major examples - it's actually a shame we never got Lynn Ramsay's version of the former, and I suppose Del Torro's version of the latter).
Going off-topic here, but I'm not one of those people. I've never had any complaints about the action in his films. If what we got in, say, Inception or The Dark Knight were the level of action we'd get in the next Bond, I'd be most pleased.
Same here @DarthDimi
I am somewhat agnostic. I didn't love his action sequences, although plenty had amazing concepts and were unique. But I didn't dislike them.
I do believe these action sequences could have been masterful with a seasoned second unit director running the team.
To be fair I've always had issues with the truck chase in TDK in particular. It's actually very difficult to watch for me because it's so weirdly put together. The fight scenes in TDKR are pretty bad too unfortunately (I don't know why but he seems to favour relatively wide shots in that film which gives away how stylised the choreography looks and creates this weird, unnatural look to the fights).
He's ok with set pieces though.
True, but in TWINE it’s quite noticeable.
Apted was good at character stuff, and Vic Armstrong the second unit.
But meshing it all together didn’t seem to work.
Glad I'm not alone, @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷. ;-)
@peter I suppose there is room for improvement. Falling in love with Nolan's concepts is what my love for the man's work is mostly based on anyway. He finds ways to be original in an era when people complain about lack of originality, though he's not always rewarded for his efforts. Even in his action scenes, he tries out new things, like the elevator fights in Inception, the amazing - AMAZING! - truck flip in The Dark Knight ("Not good. Okay, that is NOT good!"), the heavily criticised yet technically cool mirror action effects in Tenet, and so on. Those ideas "wow" the hell out of me. I love the truck stuff in LTK and will not take anything away from it, but if the truck flip from The Dark Knight had been in a Bond film instead, I would have soiled my undies. :-D