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I'd blame that more on Armstrong. I thought by TWINE his talents as a second unit were lazy and uninteresting.
@DarthDimi , no doubt about it: Nolan always looks for unique ways to tell a story, to represent character and to shoot action.
EDIT: Excuse double post!
Yes that's why we have bad Marvel movies too, they hire inexperienced directors.
Those Marvel films hardly do any action, they do CGI. The practical stuff that we see in Bond or in Nolan's films is an entirely different thing. "Bad Marvel movies" has more to do with writing, greed and too many films and tv series crammed in one year.
Yes but these directors don't even know what CGI means ;)
I think the low point is the ski chase: shot in big wide shots from half a mile away with not very fast-moving skiers, it's one of the most deathly Bond action scenes, especially as it's really unimportant to the plot, and you really feel it.
Directing for CGI can be a skill in itself to be fair. When it goes disastrously wrong you can really tell (ie. look at the bizarre decisions Tom Hooper made when directing Cats/how badly he screwed over the VFX artists).
Agree with 007HallY re. Boyle's departure from NTTD being a good thing. Still remember my heart sinking a bit when he was announced and the relief when he walked. Did we really want Bond to spend most of a movie held captive in Russia by the villain? Beyond the initial intrigue of seeing Craig sustaining that kind of claustrophobic intensity, I have to say I wasn't keen on that idea when this site reported it back in in 2019. Happy and Glorious is enough Boyle-Bond for me, tbh.
I'll pick SP, even though the story and script is far from perfect, I love the PTS and the train fight
Yes, I couldn't stand that sequence. And the caviar factory was really messy. As you guys were saying today: this set piece should have had our hearts pumping. Instead it was loud and visually flat, with too much happening. The best action sequences, to me, build from one obstacle to another. It may look like "chaos" as viewers, but behind the scenes the second unit director, under the supervision of the director, builds step by step. It's a sweet science, and I admire these talented teams. Through their spectacle we also get more sense of our characters.
If one wants to ever learn about story, talk to stunt people. These guys have story running through their veins. Many of them are great story tellers, with fantastic re-call and are highly imaginative. My friend, Mic Rodgers (stunt legend, second unit director, Academy Award winner for The Mic Rig), told me an awesome story about the scene in Lethal Weapon 4, and when Jet Li is first introduced to Riggs and Murtaugh up close. The scene takes place at Murtaugh's house, and Li is absolutely having his way with Riggs.
Our two cops join forces, and in the middle of this fight, all three pull out their guns and get them aimed at the same time.
Now what? We've seen these stand offs before, so how was the Lethal team going to make this interesting?
First step was Li resigning, giving up, lowering his weapon, and then he strikes:
While he kicks Glover, he actually strips Gibson' s gun, at the same time.
The stunt crew came up with this idea. Didn't even know if it could actually be done IRL, researched it, found out it was possible. Then--
They rehearsed the scene, and pulled it off (yes, Li, stripped the prop gun in the way it would, and could, be done, in real life (with a few tweaks to the prop gun, but, "movie magic")!)!!
This wasn't just a cool scene, but also a character scene (about the teamwork of R&M, but also about Jet Li: The crew wanted to show how deadly, fast, and highly intelligent he was (and how our heroes will be in deep-you-know-what, every time they face off against this monster).
Stunt crews elevate projects. They elevate story through action. They elevate character. And they don't get the credit they deserve, IMO.
Is that the direction though or the script and transitions from action to quiet moments. I loved the pay-off of the action moment in the caviar factory. Valentin with the Insurance comment. Got a big laugh in the theatre!
That's a really fun and interesting story, thanks for sharing.
TWINE peaks at the precredits and just falls apart from there. It feels like something of a dry run for the Craig era, with the creative team wanting to try new ideas and a more dramatic direction but weren't fully committed to it, thus adding the tropes like having the sexy girl with the outrageous name for Bond to have a bad quip with in the end; having a villain who can't feel pain and not doing anything with it; Zukovsky being turned from a respected gangster into a bumbling comedy figure, kind of like they did to the Marcus character in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Somebody mentioned TWINE had better gadgets, but that avalanche shelter thing was among the worst. Bond didn't go on this mission expecting to go to a snowy environment, but there he is with the perfect gadget.
The action is among the worst of the modern era with nothing that stands out in the film proper. During the ski chase I can almost hear an assistant yelling to set the explosion as Bond's stunt double goes from side to side, and the parahawks come off as clunky instead of intimidating. The saw thing at the caviar factory is like something rejected in the Moore era and the ending is just flat.
They make a big deal of Bond being injured and then it's conveniently forgotten by mid film. Then there's Bond being played for the fool the whole time. I couldn't imagine the Connery or Moore versions being taken in by all this. It's also a very drab-looking film, mostly overcast and dull and the locations are among the least engaging, nowhere near as mysterious or romantic as in FRWL.
SP is a masterpiece compared to this.
No problem @mtm … a little love to these ladies and gents. They’re not only great athletes, not only fearless, but genuinely play a huge role in productions!
The bit I always laugh at is where it's inexplicably edited so that Pierce appears to be watching his own stunt double.
Seriously: have a look at this bit at 4:07
Funnily enough that's exactly what I thought on my recent rewatch of TWINE. I was surprised how dull and drab it all looked compared to the older Bond films which were generally much more cheery and colourful looking. Perhaps it was the fact that so many scenes were set at night but I did notice all the darkness in this one and it doesn't help the optics of the film much.
Tomorrow Never Dies is all steel and red and neon blues, TWINE is overbearingly brown. Even Bond's ski suit is brown.
Ha! Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, there you go.
I think TND looks really good. Perhaps not colourful like the older ones, but skillfully done nonetheless. It suits the film.
TWINE's cinematography also suits the film though imo. It just happens to be set in a post-industrial ex-USSR landscape, which isn't very colourful to begin with...
Cool story, he knows his stuff. Not seen Mic since LW 4.
I saw the original cut of the ski chase - a good mate was one of the editing team on the film - and it was far superior to the final version. It had a much faster pace, sharper editing, more rugged feel, but for some reason they smoothed it all out and, in doing so, lost the urgency and pace.
That's fascinating; that matches my earlier comment that this film is one scuppered by the editing, amongst other things! Do you remember if that cut had music on it? I do wonder if Arnold's dull, plodding music doesn't help to kill the sequence.
He and I have a couple of projects going. I didn't know you knew Mic! If you want to DM me I can pass on any message.
He's a cool guy, isn't he?
It had temp music, I think from TND. Composers don't normally fully score until the film is fine cut, or very close to final cut. Obviously they prepare and write themes and cues as soon as they are shown an early cut of the film. Often, working with the Music Editor, they suggest good pieces of already produced music to add to the early cuts of the film as a guide to the final score and where the cues will begin and end.