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Hey, there are literally thousands of worse choices for a greatest movie ever made! :P
No they're not:
Racism is discrimination and prejudice against people based on their race or ethnicity.
Making a stereotype isn't racist unless you do it to show that the one you're making a stereotype off is inferior to you.
And curry isn't only associated with India in the West, Indians themselves find it part of their culture. Would I be 'discriminated' if somebody made a remark about me and cheese as a Dutchman? No, it's part of my culture. Try @DartDimi and beer. You won't upset him in the slightest.
Let's keep the word racism for what it really means.
Of course they are. In LALD the idea is basically presented at least the first half of the film that all black people are working together secretly against 'us'. Cab drivers, funeral processions, the entire clientele and staff of every bar you go in etc. ... it's a dodgy message the film portrays there. If you watch it with that in mind it's all a bit rum. Yes, there's Quarrel and Cutter, but they're in it so briefly as to not really balance it out.
And before kneejerking to the film's defence just because we're all 007 fans; just consider it for a moment. Can it be seen that way? There's a strange message which is basically against an entire race there.
Goodness me you're stretching here. Just admit it's a dodgy joke, it's fine to. And if you don't think it's dodgy, please don't try and use it in a similar situation for your own sake.
I'm English, and if someone from another country I'd not met before made jokes about me drinking tea all the time ho-ho-ho, then honestly I would initially suspect them of being a dick and eventually get pissed off with them. If I were from a minority background (which is where the racism comes in) then I suspect it would be another drop in the tank of feeling that other folk can't get over the colour of my skin.
I love Bond films, but if we can't accept where time has moved on for some bits of them then I think we're just being unrealistic. If someone was to say that these parts were all going to be removed in future releases of these films then what would folks say? Be honest: just like with the Fleming fuss it would be 'we need to keep these as a reminder of how we went wrong and that we can learn from them' etc. That's what they say every time. So we have to admit these are moments we have moved on from. And if folks can't then maybe they should be cut out.
Some people just like to create drama out of nothing.
Well, stereotypes can still be racist, and that inferiority element isn't always clear cut.
The curry line in OP does stick out to be fair. It's noticeably a bit weird/cringey especially when seen today, and has that racial/cultural bias as a line. I don't think a comment about cheese/a Dutchman has quite the same connotation given that it's directed at an Indian, and one who is in this case subservient to Bond in a relatively stereotypical way (for better or for worse). It's kind of similar to the moment in DN where Bond barks at Quarrel to fetch his shoes. I'm sure there's stuff in that nowadays we'd find slightly uncomfortable that weren't as apparent to many at the time. Honestly though, there's much worse you can find in films, and Bond as a series isn't bad for these sorts of things. It's a lame line as well.
If that's what were happening at all then you'd have a point, but it isn't is it. It's just people being able to still enjoy these things whilst being capable of simultaneously recognising the issues with doing anything like that today, because we have moved on a bit.
Yes, exactly. Trying to say 'this isn't racist because if you did it to a Dutchman..' isn't the same, because the experience of different races aren't reversible like that; if they were then we really would have no racism, but we do.
As you say though, I don't think 'racist' would ever be the first word that comes to mind when I think of Octopussy either.
I've always had the impression that they curry line was something Roger himself added. I don't know if it was, but it doesn't quite feel in line with the script and sticks out like you say, and I get the feeling he liked a cheesy gag like that. I'm not saying he would have meant anything bad by it, I just get that impression. Much like the 'it's a wonderful racket, this!' gag he does almost off-mike in the same location!
My issue is when certain reviews or ranking videos come with snide remarks about the past. Things like "that didn't age well" or "this scene makes me uncomfortable" implies that there's something inherently wrong with it. I didn't expect so many Bond fans to be progressives/leftists, since Bond is inherently a masculine, traditional figure who understands game (social dynamics and female nature).
The idea that we have 'moved on' is subjective and many people would disagree, but this is treading on political discussion which I won't get into.
Yep.
I find the section from when Bond arrives in San Francisco up until when Zorin shows up in Howe's office to be perhaps the most boring of any Bond film, although TWINE could provide some competition.
Yep!
For example, the second half of OP, once Bond meets Octopussy, it really picks up. Not a huge fan of stuff leading up to it.
TLD has probably the best first half of any Bond film. For me, the second half, once Bond arrives in Morroco, that I kinda lose interest
Even the Ferris wheel bit?
I love almost every scene in the film save for that damn Ferris wheel and, “are you calling me a horse’s arse”…. Oh man, do I ever dislike these two scenes, 😂!
Lol. I love those scenes. But I know what you mean, but I still love them. I think those scenes just add to the honesty in the relationship between Bond and Kara. Maybe top contender for the most romantic encounter in a Bond film. Like I really felt Bond and Kara really liked each other.
You’re a lucky man, then!!
In all seriousness, it’s no bother to me. TLD is such a great Bond adventure, two small scenes don’t take away from the massive enjoyment I get from the film.
Absolutely! Such a great Bond film.
Absolutely! Bond & Pam had a great (albeit different) chemistry as well IMO!
Yes. True.
Lets pit two revenge style stories together and see which one we prefer.
Would you rather watch LTK OR QOS?
Both films feature Bond going rogue. Both have Bond in a strange land without the help of Mi6. Both films feature a female character who is also looking to take down or at least gain some revenge on the villain and who knows about the villains operation. Both films down play laughs for a serious tone. Both feature water action, LTK underwater and QOS a boat chase. Both films feature a Theme song that doesn't rank highly on the best song lists.
Which one are you more likely to throw into your player?
The first half of LTK, especially is hard on the eyes. The tv actors didn’t help matters.
I do really enjoy both, though.
QoS is, well, QoS. Good enough for Statham.
The style, the action and the acting are all brilliant. If the script had been further developed and the editing was a bit more cohesive it'd be top 5 for me.
LTK has grown on me though, the action is excellent (best underwater sequences of the series in my opinion) but like Peter said, it does have a TV feel in places.
I was about to post, but you said precisely what I was going to....
QoS has a number of things over it: the locations, the technical aspects, the music...
But LTK has a prime Dalton, a top three Bond girl, and a top five Bond villain.
They're both regularly rewatched, though.