Would you rather go up into the hills with Miss Taro OR get tied up with Helga on the Ning Po?

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  • edited November 2023 Posts: 1,858
    Going with LTK because it echos Fleming much more than LALD. I like Tim as Bond much more than Roger. LALD's humor rubs me the wrong way and the lack luster finale' fight and final demise of Mr. Big was a BIG letdown. The whole film, to me feels, a bit low budget with the car crash in Harlem, the wingless plane chase, bus chase and rather uninspired cave lair. And that is after the fact that I saw it at it's red carpet premiere at the Chinese theatre and even got Roger to sign a copy of the script for me.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    LTK and it's not even close to me.

    I found LALD to be really slow and overlong, it's a matter that showcased different types of chases (in boat, in runway, and in bus), those chases were too overlong and could be cut, and what's worse was the majority of the film's timeline was all about Bond escaping from the villains, nothing in the film really happens until the climax which was a fresh change of pace but ruined by a stupid villain's death, it's like TB, but at least, TB at least had plot progression, with LALD, it's just repetitive throughout.

    LTK is really great, with real story in it, while it may be devoid of filmmaking quality (like cinematography), there's more meat in the plot and the characters, it's quick paced, and the action never hindered the plot progression, it's not just there as a design (like what TB does with the underwater scenes or what LALD does with the chase scenes), those action were crucial to the stories and more exciting to watch, not repetitive and have more tension.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,015
    LALD all the way...if only for purely nostalgic reasons. It was the only James Bond movie that I watched three or four times in cinemas (in different places) when I was 17. While I'm still not thrilled about the "occult" stuff, the surfeit of 1973 Chevrolets, the "007" playing cards and the balloon Kananga, I still think it's a lot more fun than all the other Moore films except maybe Moonraker. LTK is the lesser of the two Dalton films for me, with very limited amounts of humor that goes beyond the Miami Vice level. So for enjoyment (even for the 20th time or so) it must be LALD.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,139
    I recently watched LTK after a very, very long time and I have to say that although there are many things I still like about it, some of the acting and corny humor do lend it a tv movie vibe, further reinforced by the quality (or lack thereof) of the cinematography and certain set pieces.
    The slow-motion scene in particular is unbelievably corny. Leiter and his cohorts running like they're about to invade Normandy, only to find two hapless pilots standing by an empty plane.

    LALD remains firmly at #7 in my ranking of the Bond films and is a movie I always enjoy revisiting.
  • Posts: 1,490
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    I recently watched LTK after a very, very long time and I have to say that although there are many things I still like about it, some of the acting and corny humor do lend it a tv movie vibe, further reinforced by the quality (or lack thereof) of the cinematography and certain set pieces.
    The slow-motion scene in particular is unbelievably corny. Leiter and his cohorts running like they're about to invade Normandy, only to find two hapless pilots standing by an empty plane.

    LALD remains firmly at #7 in my ranking of the Bond films and is a movie I always enjoy revisiting.

    That slow motion shot of Felix and his men running was originally planned have the theme from Chariots of Fire playing over it. The music was laid into the rough cut for a screening for Cubby and the team, plus Dalton was there, and I remember Dalton laughing loudly at the gag, but the general feeling was it was clunky and the music was dropped and replaced by Kamen's score when the time came.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,139
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    I recently watched LTK after a very, very long time and I have to say that although there are many things I still like about it, some of the acting and corny humor do lend it a tv movie vibe, further reinforced by the quality (or lack thereof) of the cinematography and certain set pieces.
    The slow-motion scene in particular is unbelievably corny. Leiter and his cohorts running like they're about to invade Normandy, only to find two hapless pilots standing by an empty plane.

    LALD remains firmly at #7 in my ranking of the Bond films and is a movie I always enjoy revisiting.

    That slow motion shot of Felix and his men running was originally planned have the theme from Chariots of Fire playing over it. The music was laid into the rough cut for a screening for Cubby and the team, plus Dalton was there, and I remember Dalton laughing loudly at the gag, but the general feeling was it was clunky and the music was dropped and replaced by Kamen's score when the time came.
    That’s a cool piece of trivia. The cue is terribly reminiscent of Kamen’s score for Die Hard… which is another area where this movie suffers in comparison to LALD.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,105
    No dilemma here, LTK is a set-in-stone top 3 for me, LALD always ends up near the bottom.

    LTK without a shred of doubt.
  • Posts: 1,316
    LTK has plot. A real story.
  • Posts: 1,490
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    I recently watched LTK after a very, very long time and I have to say that although there are many things I still like about it, some of the acting and corny humor do lend it a tv movie vibe, further reinforced by the quality (or lack thereof) of the cinematography and certain set pieces.
    The slow-motion scene in particular is unbelievably corny. Leiter and his cohorts running like they're about to invade Normandy, only to find two hapless pilots standing by an empty plane.

    LALD remains firmly at #7 in my ranking of the Bond films and is a movie I always enjoy revisiting.

    That slow motion shot of Felix and his men running was originally planned have the theme from Chariots of Fire playing over it. The music was laid into the rough cut for a screening for Cubby and the team, plus Dalton was there, and I remember Dalton laughing loudly at the gag, but the general feeling was it was clunky and the music was dropped and replaced by Kamen's score when the time came.
    That’s a cool piece of trivia. The cue is terribly reminiscent of Kamen’s score for Die Hard… which is another area where this movie suffers in comparison to LALD.

    Yes, the editing team, I was one of them, felt Kamen's score was, as you say, too Die Hard in places and he was encouraged to make greater use of the Bond theme. They also recorded a new version of the Bond theme with Eric Clapton, but it was all over the place and never used. I think this Mi6 site had a link to it once.
  • Posts: 4,094
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    I recently watched LTK after a very, very long time and I have to say that although there are many things I still like about it, some of the acting and corny humor do lend it a tv movie vibe, further reinforced by the quality (or lack thereof) of the cinematography and certain set pieces.
    The slow-motion scene in particular is unbelievably corny. Leiter and his cohorts running like they're about to invade Normandy, only to find two hapless pilots standing by an empty plane.

    LALD remains firmly at #7 in my ranking of the Bond films and is a movie I always enjoy revisiting.

    That slow motion shot of Felix and his men running was originally planned have the theme from Chariots of Fire playing over it. The music was laid into the rough cut for a screening for Cubby and the team, plus Dalton was there, and I remember Dalton laughing loudly at the gag, but the general feeling was it was clunky and the music was dropped and replaced by Kamen's score when the time came.

    That explains an awful lot to me. It’s one of those moments I feel I’ve never quite ‘got’. And there were a few ‘music’ gags in the 70s/80s Bond films (ie. the Beach Boys cropping up during the AVTAK PTS). It’s similar to the bit where Dario seems to see Pam as an Angel - it’s there but I’ve always felt it was trimmed down slightly in the edit.

    I really like LTK. It does have those few leftovers of absurdist, self referential humour of the later Moore films, but it also feels like a stepping stone to the more mature style that GE gave us.

    As for whether I’d go for LTK or LALD… I’d say 6.5 times out of 10 it’d be LTK, but 3.5 times out of 10 it would be LALD. Just depends on my mood, but LTK is my preferred film of the two.
  • Posts: 12,461
    Right now I’ll go with LTK, but it’s tough. These two are usually right next to each other in my ranking, #10 and #11 at the moment. They each have great Bond performances and villains and leading ladies. LALD wins on music and atmosphere, but LTK wins on action and story for me. Very much a tossup where I’m just giving it to LTK today based on mood.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,593
    peter wrote: »
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?

    Ironically, Richard Maibaum said that LALD having villains process drugs in the jungle was not a Bond caper. Ironically, he did almost the exact same thing in LTK. Hypocritical as usual.
  • Posts: 4,094
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?

    Ironically, Richard Maibaum said that LALD having villains process drugs in the jungle was not a Bond caper. Ironically, he did almost the exact same thing in LTK. Hypocritical as usual.

    To be fair isn’t there some nonsense about stinger missiles and an American airplane that only gets mentioned in dialogue towards the third act?

    It’s incredibly tacked on and utterly pointless (even wiki glosses over it in the plot synopsis) but I suppose it’s there.
  • Posts: 1,316
    peter wrote: »
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?

    Yes. LALD is a looong chase.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    peter wrote: »
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?

    Yes. LALD is a looong chase.

    A rare time I agree with you.
  • Posts: 1,858
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    LALD all the way...if only for purely nostalgic reasons. It was the only James Bond movie that I watched three or four times in cinemas (in different places) when I was 17. While I'm still not thrilled about the "occult" stuff, the surfeit of 1973 Chevrolets, the "007" playing cards and the balloon Kananga, I still think it's a lot more fun than all the other Moore films except maybe Moonraker. LTK is the lesser of the two Dalton films for me, with very limited amounts of humor that goes beyond the Miami Vice level. So for enjoyment (even for the 20th time or so) it must be LALD.

    It's almost inevitable that we all have a soft spot for the Bond films we saw as teenagers, especially in a theater. Mine is GF.
  • Posts: 1,858
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    I recently watched LTK after a very, very long time and I have to say that although there are many things I still like about it, some of the acting and corny humor do lend it a tv movie vibe, further reinforced by the quality (or lack thereof) of the cinematography and certain set pieces.
    The slow-motion scene in particular is unbelievably corny. Leiter and his cohorts running like they're about to invade Normandy, only to find two hapless pilots standing by an empty plane.

    LALD remains firmly at #7 in my ranking of the Bond films and is a movie I always enjoy revisiting.

    That slow motion shot of Felix and his men running was originally planned have the theme from Chariots of Fire playing over it. The music was laid into the rough cut for a screening for Cubby and the team, plus Dalton was there, and I remember Dalton laughing loudly at the gag, but the general feeling was it was clunky and the music was dropped and replaced by Kamen's score when the time came.
    That’s a cool piece of trivia. The cue is terribly reminiscent of Kamen’s score for Die Hard… which is another area where this movie suffers in comparison to LALD.

    Yes, the editing team, I was one of them, felt Kamen's score was, as you say, too Die Hard in places and he was encouraged to make greater use of the Bond theme. They also recorded a new version of the Bond theme with Eric Clapton, but it was all over the place and never used. I think this Mi6 site had a link to it once.

    Part of the editing team?!?!?!? My hat is off to you. Personally. I'm glad they did not do the "Chariots" nod.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    My fanboy says Dalton but my head says Brosnan.
    Benny wrote: »
    I love LTK and Timothy Dalton is one of my favourite Bonds.
    But, I have to go with LALD
    Roger Moore, like many actors in their debut Bond movie, is effortlessly cool. He takes on the role, and is a different Bond than Connery, whilst still playing the same character.
    I love the 70's look of LALD, and the soundtrack alone would help it take the win for me.

    All of the above…
    And, it was the first Bond that I saw in a theater; I was 10 and it was a life changing experience.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?

    Yes. LALD is a looong chase.

    So Kananga doesn't have a plan? Bond doesn't have an assignment? It's just a chase film?

    Okay.
  • Posts: 1,316
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?

    Yes. LALD is a looong chase.

    So Kananga doesn't have a plan? Bond doesn't have an assignment? It's just a chase film?

    Okay.

    What plan? We don't see anything about his plan. He only cares about Solitaire's virginity. ;)

    It's a fun movie but a Matt Helm picture has more plot.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Sure, ok
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,593
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    LTK has plot. A real story.

    As opposed to LALD's fake story?

    Yes. LALD is a looong chase.

    A rare time I agree with you.

    Me three. Sheriff JW Pepper does NOT help at all.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,395
    Both films have drugs as the central plot point. Both are fantastical in their nature.

    Kananga creates a plan to give away heroin and we are supposed to believe that it will create a monopoly? He's a Prime Minister but he had time to create a crime syndicate in NYC.

    Sanchez creates cocaine that can be dissolved into gasoline and smuggled across the borders. The cocaine then can be created back to powder once it gets to a facility.

    Both villains have outlandish plans. Sanchez is a more believed plot but to me both have a fantastical element.

    The John Gardner LTK novelization has more about the stinger missiles with the American government. Not sure if the script had this or it was excised from the finished product.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    The battle of the two David Hedison as Ian Fleming's Leiter, Felix Leiter films.

    I pick LTK. Dalton vs. Davi over Moore vs. Kotto.(However I'll always prefer Seymour over Lowell).
    delfloria wrote: »
    MR and YOLT were my 2 favorite Bond films as a child( I've never had a problem with outer spaced themed 007 films) and they remain my favorite two of the sci-fi themed and GF formula Bond films. They both feature hauntingly memorable John Barry scores, gorgeous travelogue scenery and impressive sets by Ken Adam. A double feature of both would work for me and while Connery is my favorite Bond lead actor I think Moore gives the better performance of these two so MR gets my vote.

    Both films are relatively daft but my vote goes to YOLT for it's audacious volcano lair.

    It is quite impressive. The final battle of Tanaka's ninjas vs SPECTRE ninjas in it remains my favorite final battle to this day.
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I disagree about Moonraker, it's not his worst, it's either A View To A Kill, The Man With The Golden Gun, or Octopussy.

    Definitely AVTAK IMHO.
    thedove wrote: »
    MR is a good film right up till we head to space. Then I find myself being taken out of the movie with lasers, a Space Station that somehow no one noticed was up in space. There are too many plot holes for me.

    I remember seeing this poster a few months before MR's release:

    moonraker-poster-original.jpg

    I had not read any of Fleming's novels or short stories at that point but in the wake of Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope, the first Christopher Reeve Superman film and even the John Barry scored, Caroline Munro stared StarCrash I found this idea completely irresistible. I'm sure I was part of the target audience EON was aiming for at that time.

    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    So, maybe I both prefer MR and YOLT to TSWLM.

    +1.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,147
    Despite it's flaws, all of which have been accurately identified here, I have go with LTK. Dalton was a classic Bond and LTK's one of only two times you can see him in the role. There's just not enough DaltonBond, man. Tim never got the chance to fully demonstrate his greatness, so I have to take what there is. LTK, for me.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,368
    Both LALD and LTK have been in my top 5 at one point. Currently LALD is still in the 2-4 range, while LTK has settled into 6-8, so LALD for me at the moment.

    Two wildly different plots, styles, and tone but I adore them both greatly.
  • Posts: 7,401
    Venutius wrote: »
    Despite it's flaws, all of which have been accurately identified here, I have go with LTK. Dalton was a classic Bond and LTK's one of only two times you can see him in the role. There's just not enough DaltonBond, man. Tim never got the chance to fully demonstrate his greatness, so I have to take what there is. LTK, for me.

    I think Dalton is perfect in both movies, so I would say it's a shame we didn't get see MORE of his greatness 😉
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 95
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    LTK and it's not even close to me.

    I found LALD to be really slow and overlong, it's a matter that showcased different types of chases (in boat, in runway, and in bus), those chases were too overlong and could be cut, and what's worse was the majority of the film's timeline was all about Bond escaping from the villains, nothing in the film really happens until the climax which was a fresh change of pace but ruined by a stupid villain's death, it's like TB, but at least, TB at least had plot progression, with LALD, it's just repetitive throughout.

    LTK is really great, with real story in it, while it may be devoid of filmmaking quality (like cinematography), there's more meat in the plot and the characters, it's quick paced, and the action never hindered the plot progression, it's not just there as a design (like what TB does with the underwater scenes or what LALD does with the chase scenes), those action were crucial to the stories and more exciting to watch, not repetitive and have more tension.

    Couldn't say it better.
    I can't think of a single thing that LALD did better than LTK, except weaving the theme song into the score, and even then I actually like Kamen's score better. I'm not a fan of either theme songs, to be honest, they're very cheesy to me.
    As for everything else, I prefer LTK by a long mile.
    Timothy > Roger; LTK action sequences > LALD action sequences; Sanchez > Kananga; Pam > Solitaire.
    Plus LALD has too many instances of sexism (Bond tricking Solitaire to bed her) and racism. I know it was different times so I accept that the movie for what it is, but I can't bear myself to watch it.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,837
    Both films are flawed to some degree and as much as I love Dalton's Bond, I find LALD to be more rewatchable than LTK.
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