Would you rather have red wine with fish OR drink a bottle of Phu-Yuck?

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  • Posts: 1,334
    No, It just looks cheap. Too many close-ups like a TV show.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I find it hilarious to compare GE to a TV movie when that's the biggest takeaway vibe I have with TND. Those fights scenes are horrendously poor.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I find it hilarious to compare GE to a TV movie when that's the biggest takeaway vibe I have with TND. Those fights scenes are horrendously poor.

    Cinematography wise, I don't see any problems regarding it in the Brosnan Era, sure not as beautiful as say OHMSS or Skyfall, but they're not as cheap looking as LTK or FYEO or even AVTAK.

    That's why I consider them a step up from the 80's Bond films, filmmaking wise and in terms of cinematography.

    The fight scenes in TND are not as badly shot as those in QoS.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    EDIT: PM me so we don't bung-up this thread
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,787
    peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    I prefer to explain it here, so everyone would have the chance to see my side 😊

    The QoS fight scenes are more visceral and brutal for sure, but what keeping those from being great are the editing, it's very frenetic, that's what I'm trying to say that the fight scenes in the Brosnan Era for all of the problems regarding the believability in the fight scenes, are better shot than QoS, and especially, they're not cheap looking, let alone horrendously poor, they're not.

    The fight scenes in QoS are actually a step down from CR regarding of the shots.

    So regarding the filmmaking in terms of technicality, I don't see any problem with the Brosnan Era Bond films, especially the cinematography, those may not be as beautiful directed as OHMSS, SF, MR or even TSWLM, but it's a step up from the cinematography of the films made in 80's like LTK, FYEO or AVTAK, not cheap looking.
  • Posts: 4,136
    I do prefer the fights in CR to be honest. I remember at the time it being a big thing that Bond could be seen taking hits/getting a bit bloodied. The stairwell fight especially is really good in this area. I think even in QOS the fight scenes feel a bit choreographed/staged, and some of the camerawork and editing makes them a bit tricky to follow.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    I prefer to explain it here, so everyone would have the chance to see my side 😊

    The QoS fight scenes are more visceral and brutal for sure, but what keeping those from being great are the editing, it's very frenetic, that's what I'm trying to say that the fight scenes in the Brosnan Era for all of the problems regarding the believability in the fight scenes, are better shot than QoS, and especially, they're not cheap looking, let alone horrendously poor, they're not.

    The fight scenes in QoS are actually a step down from CR regarding of the shots.

    So regarding the filmmaking in terms of technicality, I don't see any problem with the Brosnan Era Bond films, especially the cinematography, those may not be as beautiful directed as OHMSS, SF, MR or even TSWLM, but it's a step up from the cinematography of the films made in 80's like LTK, FYEO or AVTAK, not cheap looking.

    Well, not going to argue with your opinion.

    I personally want to feel Bond’s in actual danger when in an altercation, and I certainly feel that more in Quantum, whereas I never, ever, think Brosnan’s in trouble in TND.

    And I’m also one of the people that can’t stand the Kaufman scene. As written, it’s awesome, but to me, it was executed and played for laughs by an actor doing a cartoonish accent. Never once did I think he had a chance at blowing Bond away.

    And the struggle for the gun, the shaking of the weapon, and the grit-jaw line delivery (on Bond’s part), felt more pantomime than it did “acting in the moment”.

    QoS had a little chaos of what unarmed combat brings and I’d rather have that grounded approach vs a Saturday morning cartoon.
  • peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    No shaky cam!!!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,289
    peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    I love the axe fight and how unhinged Amalric plays it. His role is underwritten but his portrayal is great.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    echo wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    I love the axe fight and how unhinged Amalric plays it. His role is underwritten but his portrayal is great.

    I agree @echo , I thought he was fantastic in every scene. He was completely unhinged and raging in that climax. He was a greasy rat that was cornered by a bobcat (Bond), and he just went all out psycho.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 2,264
    echo wrote: »

    I love the axe fight and how unhinged Amalric plays it. His role is underwritten but his portrayal is great.


    peter wrote: »
    I agree @echo , I thought he was fantastic in every scene. He was completely unhinged and raging in that climax. He was a greasy rat that was cornered by a bobcat (Bond), and he just went all out psycho.


    Usually I don’t like it whenever Bond easily one ups the villain without any trouble/difficulty in some of these movies because it takes away from the threat/danger of the bad guy if Bond can easily dispatch him, but I do like the fight between Bond and Greene as an exception to that rule. Greene was such a twerp for a Bond villain that seeing Craig run circles around him to the point of having Greene hit his own foot with an axe is great. Then dangling him over a ledge holding him by only his hair is another brutal but great touch.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Ok, I know what I’m watching tonight!!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    peter wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    I love the axe fight and how unhinged Amalric plays it. His role is underwritten but his portrayal is great.

    I agree @echo , I thought he was fantastic in every scene. He was completely unhinged and raging in that climax. He was a greasy rat that was cornered by a bobcat (Bond), and he just went all out psycho.

    I often think that Amalric could have been a great Le Chiffre. Not that there's anything wrong with Mikkelsen of course, I just think Amalric could have been great too.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 2,264
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ ... There are a lot of very, late, middle-aged, out of shape men, having terribly choreographed punch-ups with Brosnan, vs the Mitchell/Bond scrap on a dangling rope, the Slate/Bond match-up, the Dominic Greene Axe/Bond battle...

    Please explain to me how TND has better fight sequences than Quantum?

    I love the axe fight and how unhinged Amalric plays it. His role is underwritten but his portrayal is great.

    I agree @echo , I thought he was fantastic in every scene. He was completely unhinged and raging in that climax. He was a greasy rat that was cornered by a bobcat (Bond), and he just went all out psycho.

    I often think that Amalric could have been a great Le Chiffre. Not that there's anything wrong with Mikkelsen of course, I just think Amalric could have been great too.

    I think Amalric could’ve made a great Blofeld myself. He’s got a quirkiness that reminds me a lot of Donald Pleasence. Plus something about his eyes and how wicked they can look sometimes makes him engaging to watch.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I’m not sure if I see Amalric as a Pleasance’esque Blofeld, but I can see a sadistic and creepy Le Chiffre @mtm and @007ClassicBondFan … good call mtm.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    Well that took some interesting turns and diversions!

    Lets move off our double bills, though we may come back to that one with some different combos.

    How about we focus on chases. Bond is always getting chased or being chased. In some cases our hero grabs a random vehicle, in other cases he has a Q vehicle at his disposal. I want to focus on those rare occasions where Bond is strictly on foot. No vehicle to help, merely a man running or a man being chased.

    In a few rare times Bond has been in a rather tight spot during a chase. I think of the TB chase though the junkanoo, shot with glow in the dark blood. Or in OHMSS when he ends up in the small town holding the festival. I kind of liked those foot chases and the tension that they bring as Bond is usually in close quarters. You aren't sure how he will make it out alive or free. Even YOLT with the roof top chase on the docks might qualify here.

    In more recent films Bond has engaged in a foot chase and done the chasing. In CR when he chases the bomber, he's like a bull in a china shop. He bashes through things and he's focused on one thing. In QOS when he chases the turned agent. These are frenetic, they are big and bold. Bond is doing the chasing and usually gets his man.

    This brings us to our would you rather!

    Would you rather a foot chase where Bond is being chased OR a foot chase where Bond is chasing his enemy?

    Which one works better for you? What type of chase brings more tension or allows for more suspense?
  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    Posts: 557
    In the films, Bond doing the chasing. It shows he's a man on a mission, he's a prime physical specimen and he's literally driving towards an objective, 'gives the impression the story's moving forward', classic West Wing.

    Whereas with the books it's the other way around, because you get to read Bond's inner monologue the tension of whether he's going to escape and how is much more palpable when he's the one being chased.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I'd go with Bond doing the chasing. The CR parkour chase instantly comes to mind as a thing of beautiful perfection. I love the juxtaposition between Bond's blunt force approach and Mollaka's pure skill and fluidity.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Both great for different reasons. Bond being the dangerous predator after a target is cool in its own right, but I also love Bond in serious peril having to run for his life. If I can only pick one I’ll go with the second I suppose.
  • I’d like a scene where Bond is being chased by the enemy. After the Parkour chase, it’d be silly to try and too that!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    SPECTRE also has a good opening Chase, in a lovely reversal of TB's Junkanoo. TBH I love both. Whatever suits the storyline. Mind you, Craig did it so well, I wonder if a new Bond can match that.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    SPECTRE also has a good opening Chase, in a lovely reversal of TB's Junkanoo. TBH I love both. Whatever suits the storyline. Mind you, Craig did it so well, I wonder if a new Bond can match that.

    And he had a broken leg at the time! :)
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    I liked that Bond is the one that gets chased by the enemies, it brings out the vulnerability in him, my favorite example of this is in OHMSS where Bond gets chased by Irma Bunt and the SPECTRE henchmen in the Swiss Market/Skating Rink.

    Bond chasing the enemy, makes Bond too confident and cemented his status as the most fearsome agent.

    So, for this, I'd liked to see Bond being chased by the enemies.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,420
    Yes the way George sits and looks at the ice. He is a defeated man in some respects and it is played nicely. You feel that this is Bond in danger. TB has a little of that and still is one of the only wounds Bond receives that has consequences. I love how he's adding things up at the Kiss Kiss club trying to figure out how to get out of this one.

    I think I would like to see a Bond being chased sequence in a future film.

    Okay lets move off that and talk about the Bond universe, or at least some things that have been bandied about in these forums.

    We are told it's all about content! We have Marvel and Star Wars being mined for material with movies and series about some minor characters. We have limited TV series and in some cases films that don't feature any of the "main' characters.

    Some on here have espoused that Amazon may ask EON to produce some similar content for Amazon Prime. Think a series starring Felix, or a series about other double-o agents. Heck you could even have a series about the Mi6 gang!

    On the other hand there is a youth market. EON did something for the younger fans back in the 90's. It was a cartoon series called James Bond Jr. A cartoon of some cheesiness, hey it was a different time. James Bond Jr. was the nephew of Bond and seemed to have some similarities with his famous uncle. While it has gained a cult status among certain fans it represents the last time EON really did anything substantial with a different media. Since then we had a book series of Young Bond. The books were successful and have their fans.

    This leads to our would you rather question:

    Would you rather EON produce a Bond universe for Amazon Prime OR they develop a Young Bond series for Amazon?

    Choose one and tell us why! A series for the younger fans? Or a whole universe of characters from the Bond movies? Which would you rather see brought to life.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 4,136
    Oh God I hope we don’t get any young Bond beyond the books. Honestly they’re already quite revisionist and referential. We don’t want another James Bond Jr.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2023 Posts: 5,970
    Ok, so realistically I'd personally advise EON against any sort of expansion of the James Bond universe for Amazon Prime because, for now, I see it as too big of a risk because I think if it goes wrong, it could have lasting effects on the films themselves...

    But, if I had to choose, I'd say expanding the Bond movies into a universe is the bigger risk so I'd go for a Young Bond series, but make sure it has no connection to the continuity of the current era or any of the past ones. The best way to do this in my eyes would be to adapt Charlie Higson's novels and keeping them as period pieces to cement that this is a separate world and not the origins of whoever the current Bond will be.
  • 007HallY wrote: »
    We don’t want another James Bond Jr.

    You say that but deep down in the list of members on this website sits two massive James Bond Jr. fans awaiting a complete series release on Blu-Ray…
  • Posts: 4,136
    007HallY wrote: »
    We don’t want another James Bond Jr.

    You say that but deep down in the list of members on this website sits two massive James Bond Jr. fans awaiting a complete series release on Blu-Ray…

    Christ 😦
  • 007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    We don’t want another James Bond Jr.

    You say that but deep down in the list of members on this website sits two massive James Bond Jr. fans awaiting a complete series release on Blu-Ray…

    Christ 😦

    I still find it incredibly weird that EON sanctioned off on that show actually. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if EON feels quite ashamed of it these days.
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