Would you rather run into Fields at the airport OR Paloma at a bar?

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  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I like(d) both, but seeing as how we had 16 from Gardner and 9 from Benson, I will go with another from Benson.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 9 Posts: 18,258
    As much as I like Raymond Benson too it would have to be John Gardner, naturally - those in the know check out my username. ;)

    As for a novel from him I'd pick Icebreaker (1983) as I need to re-read it for an article I want to write on the novel and I consider it to be the best of his first three contracted Bond novels. It was also Gardner's favourite of his Bond novels up until TMFB.
    QBranch wrote: »
    Gardner, simply because he has slightly more adventures to choose from. I've only read Licence Renewed, and thought it was a good first entry.

    You need to read Never Send Flowers some time. I'm in that one. I think you'd probably like Icebreaker too. :)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2023 Posts: 6,272
    Gardner. As bad/phoned in as some of his Bond novels are, he is a proper writer.

    With a few exceptions (Nobody Lives Forever), Gardner's novels get (much) worse as he goes on. I think the first three are strongest. When he gets into Eurodisney and the royal family, you really have to wonder what he was thinking.

    I appreciate Benson's Bond scholarship at a time when there wasn't much, but there's something fanboyish about his books.

    Since those two (and of course Amis), I haven't bothered with continuation writers. I'd rather just go back and reread Fleming.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 4,089
    I don't think I've read enough of either. Maybe Gardner just for his earlier ones. They don't do much for me and I know the later ones get a bit daft.

    Must admit though, I've never been a fan of many of the continuation Bond novels, and I much prefer to revisit Fleming as well. CS is was enjoyable though, and I'm liking my first read of Forever and A Day so far. I find both better than Gardner and Benson.
  • Posts: 1,073
    Benson for me. I just enjoyed the whole Brosnan/Benson era, when we had a film every two years, and novelisations of those films, (I know Gardner did GE), and we also had new novels too. There was plenty of Bond going round in those days and most of it was cool to my eyes.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    I'll pass on this one, not having read enough of the "continuation novels".
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,394
    As a young boy growing up in a world without internet, I can't tell you the thrill I had when I stumbled into my W.H. Smith's in Scarborough Ontario Canada and came across Gardner's books in the early 80's. I would always stop by to see what new release had come out. Sometimes I was disappointed to see the same books on the shelf, then other times I would be elated to find yet another new adventure. Sadly all my Gardner books are soft copies except for 2. One being the book that brought Disney to Bond!

    Benson came in my later years and while I enjoyed those books something was "lacking" not sure what. I remember enjoying "High Time to Kill" though the details are now lost in the cobwebs of my mind.

    So purely for sentimental reasons I am picking Gardner and I would most likely settle upon one of his novelizations of the films (LTK or GE)
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,534
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    As much as I like Raymond Benson too it would have to be John Gardner, naturally - those in the know check out my username. ;)

    As for a novel from him I'd pick Icebreaker (1983) as I need to re-read it for an article I want to writer on the novel and I consider it to be the best of his first three contracted Bond novels. It was also Gardner's favourite of his Bond novels up until TMFB.
    QBranch wrote: »
    Gardner, simply because he has slightly more adventures to choose from. I've only read Licence Renewed, and thought it was a good first entry.

    You need to read Never Send Flowers some time. I'm in that one. I think you'd probably like Icebreaker too. :)
    I've heard good things about Icebreaker. Not so much about NSF - the villian being the worst in the franchise or something to that effect. What was his name again?

    With Licence Renewed, I envisioned a generic Bond, not Roger. With Benson I would naturally imagine Brosnan, since the author's novels run parallel. Back in 1997 I had a chapter of Zero Minus Ten taken from a magazine, it featured an image of Brosnan in suit with maybe a briefcase or glasses, standing against a Shanghai backdrop, looked very cool. That image is burned into my memory.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,258
    QBranch wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    As much as I like Raymond Benson too it would have to be John Gardner, naturally - those in the know check out my username. ;)

    As for a novel from him I'd pick Icebreaker (1983) as I need to re-read it for an article I want to writer on the novel and I consider it to be the best of his first three contracted Bond novels. It was also Gardner's favourite of his Bond novels up until TMFB.
    QBranch wrote: »
    Gardner, simply because he has slightly more adventures to choose from. I've only read Licence Renewed, and thought it was a good first entry.

    You need to read Never Send Flowers some time. I'm in that one. I think you'd probably like Icebreaker too. :)
    I've heard good things about Icebreaker. Not so much about NSF - the villian being the worst in the franchise or something to that effect. What was his name again?

    With Licence Renewed, I envisioned a generic Bond, not Roger. With Benson I would naturally imagine Brosnan, since the author's novels run parallel. Back in 1997 I had a chapter of Zero Minus Ten taken from a magazine, it featured an image of Brosnan in suit with maybe a briefcase or glasses, standing against a Shanghai backdrop, looked very cool. That image is burned into my memory.

    Yes, Icebreaker is the best of Gardner's first three Bond novels in my opinion and one of his best Bonds overall. It's well worth a read. I obviously can't agree about NSF being awful - I've rather staked my reputation upon it being good. The villain is actually one of Gardner's best and most memorable in my opinion. It was all part of the more experimental approach Gardner took in his 1990s Bond novels.

    Yes, the Benson novels were conceived as being closer to the films and as a sort of companion piece to the then contemporary Pierce Brosnan Bond films. I think that association worked quite well and it hopefully drew in some new fans to the literary Bond who then went on to read the original Fleming Bond novels too.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 2023 Posts: 3,787
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    As much as I like Raymond Benson too it would have to be John Gardner, naturally - those in the know check out my username. ;)

    As for a novel from him I'd pick Icebreaker (1983) as I need to re-read it for an article I want to writer on the novel and I consider it to be the best of his first three contracted Bond novels. It was also Gardner's favourite of his Bond novels up until TMFB.
    QBranch wrote: »
    Gardner, simply because he has slightly more adventures to choose from. I've only read Licence Renewed, and thought it was a good first entry.

    You need to read Never Send Flowers some time. I'm in that one. I think you'd probably like Icebreaker too. :)
    I've heard good things about Icebreaker. Not so much about NSF - the villian being the worst in the franchise or something to that effect. What was his name again?

    With Licence Renewed, I envisioned a generic Bond, not Roger. With Benson I would naturally imagine Brosnan, since the author's novels run parallel. Back in 1997 I had a chapter of Zero Minus Ten taken from a magazine, it featured an image of Brosnan in suit with maybe a briefcase or glasses, standing against a Shanghai backdrop, looked very cool. That image is burned into my memory.

    Yes, Icebreaker is the best of Gardner's first three Bond novels in my opinion and one of his best Bonds overall. It's well worth a read. I obviously can't agree about NSF being awful - I've rather staked my reputation upon it being good. The villain is actually one of Gardner's best and most memorable in my opinion. It was all part of the more experimental approach Gardner took in his 1990s Bond novels.

    Yes, the Benson novels were conceived as being closer to the films and as a sort of companion piece to the then contemporary Pierce Brosnan Bond films. I think that association worked quite well and it hopefully drew in some new fans to the literary Bond who then went on to read the original Fleming Bond novels too.

    I agree about NSF too, for me the best part of it was Flick Von Grusse, she's one of the Best Literary Bond Girls.

    I also agree about Benson, I also felt that his novels were a bit underrated that it can be some sort of introduction to the new Bond fans who were only familiar with movies, to engage themselves into the literary Bond before diving in more deeper to the Fleming books.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,592
    I think we should be thankful for both of them. They kept the literary Bond alive. I wish some of their books would be adapted for films. I’d narrowly go Benson though, as he came and left at the right time. I wish he could have adapted Everything or Nothing into a novelization though. It seems like his kind of story idea. I also wish he could have written more short stories. Above all, I’m happy that he has liked my Tweets related to Bond. It proves that he was grateful for his time with it.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    Benson. Much more fun, kept the core of Fleming, updated it, and removed elements that just didn’t work anymore. They should *still* be like that.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,534
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I obviously can't agree about NSF being awful - I've rather staked my reputation upon it being good. The villain is actually one of Gardner's best and most memorable in my opinion.
    Just stirring, mate. I'm sure I will enjoy NSF when I get to it. I intend to read them in order.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2023 Posts: 18,258
    QBranch wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I obviously can't agree about NSF being awful - I've rather staked my reputation upon it being good. The villain is actually one of Gardner's best and most memorable in my opinion.
    Just stirring, mate. I'm sure I will enjoy NSF when I get to it. I intend to read them in order.

    Yes, I do get a good bit of stick for liking NSF, particularly from the much missed @TheWizardOfIce. He does still slag me about it on Twitter on occasion though, so it's not all bad news. ;)

    Anyway, I hope you get the chance to read all of the Gardner novels - there are some good plots, characters and situations in them.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,394
    Love how we can help others find hidden gems or books to pick up and read! I recall Icebreaker being a good yarn and a good read.

    This was a hot button for a bit with the age of continuity and universes! So what would you rather for the new Bond?

    Would you rather Craig's Mi6 staff return for the new Bond OR recast them all?



  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Recast all.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,272
    Clear the decks.
  • Recast them all. Ralph Fiennes' M has been rendered thoroughly unsympathetic after the past 2 films. I suspect Ben Whishaw would be happy to be done with his role in the Bond cast of recurring characters as well. And are we supposed to welcome Jeffrey Wright back as Felix after "he" was killed in the prior film? No, re-cast the whole lot and let's hope that we don't go all Scooby-gang with them this time around.
  • Posts: 1,969
    Clean break. Recast all. Avoid the confusion of an actor playing the same character in the Craigs series as in the new, but who is really not the same character because of all the timeline mumbo jumbo. Example: Moneypenny was younger than Bond in the Craig series but older than Bond in the new.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    Recast from the top down and start it all as fresh as possible.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited July 2023 Posts: 13,757
    ... the villian being the worst in the franchise or something to that effect. What was his name again?
    I took that as high praise actually.

    MI6: bring in a new Bond and keep the rest.

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,534
    There was a time when I wanted this MI6 crew to return, but after some contemplation and distance from the Craig era, it really doesn't feel right to have any of them back for a new phase of Bond. On top of this, there were issues I had with pretty much each character: Mallory turned out to be unprofessional; MP was great in SF, then got blander dialogue with each episode; Tanner was just present; Whishaw's Q was great and the MVP here perhaps but in the end my main issue was with the actor himself - after apparently wanting more screentime with NTTD, got a lot more screentime, just to complain that he wasn't satisfied with what they did or didn't do with the character. That is what I read - maybe I misinterpreted that but it didn't sit well.

    All of this is beside the likelihood that any returning actor would play a different person just as Dench seemed to be in CR. No, I prefer to start afresh, but I'm also all for the long tradition of one returning actor to link it all together - how about the old woman who drops her fruit basket off the stairs?
  • Posts: 4,089
    Recast. As much as Wishaw will be missed it's better to start afresh.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    RE-CAST! RE-CAST! RE-CAST! (continuous chanting, slow fade-out)
  • Posts: 15,097
    Keep them, or at least some of them. One less thing to worry about, keeps a certain sort of continuity.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,154
    I wouldn't mind them all back. Same faces, different people? That kind of thing, like what they did with Judy Dench in 2006 and possibly with Robert Brown as well in 1983. My point is that I like Wishaw, Harris, Fiennes and Kinnear in their respective roles. Of course, other actors can no doubt be found who'll do just as well or even better. But I have built up such a fondness for this staff that I'd hate to see them go.

    Then again, I can almost hear the complaints from some fans already, about how it makes no sense and is part of some kind of Marvel parallel universe thing and whatnot. I wouldn't go there myself, but I agree that it's probably a lot cleaner to simply recast.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,534
    Maybe MGW can play M, providing us both a returning actor and the inevitable fan theory on how previous Ms had a man in the field the whole time, overseeing all of Bond's missions.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,194
    Clean slate …
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,592
    Keep Ralph Fiennes as M as Sir Miles. And don’t have Purvis and Wade write him. Enough with him (or her) past coming back to haunt them. If keeping Naomie Harris, make Moneypenny a mentor than a office romance. Q I could go either way. Bill Tanner should be brand new.
  • SeanoSeano Minnesota. No, it's not always cold.
    Posts: 44
    I would say clean slate. I would also say if they bring back Tanner, give him something to do. If they're going youngish Bond, then how about Tanner as a slightly older trainer/mentor/friend. (And for that matter reimagine Leiter as a modern day Pinkerton man -- working for some military and intelligence contractor)
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