Would you rather run into Fields at the airport OR Paloma at a bar?

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  • edited September 6 Posts: 4,089
    I think it's fair to say when it comes to pay negotiations at that level, no one looks good. It's an absurd amount of money all round. And even with the lead actor/producer on good terms, as has been the case with Bond from the 1970s onwards, these things often come down to the actor and their agent constantly upping how much they can get, and the producers trying to weigh up if this is in their financial/creative interests.

    It's not nice (although if anyone's had to work freelance for certain jobs you do sometimes have to negotiate for certain sums based on your worth). But as the great Roger Moore himself said:

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9TPXQW28PfE

    And he's right. Why would an actor - particularly the lead of a large franchise and thus a major part of its success even in the short term - settle for less than they can get? The bulk of those profits are just going to go into someone else's pockets anyway. Sir Sean using his DAF money to set up a charity, or Sir Roger using a bit of money and high profile to do humanitarian work isn't the worst thing in the grand scheme of things, at least if we're going to have such a system for making big budget movies.
  • edited September 6 Posts: 1,314
    Connery was underpaid, that's for sure.

    I guess he would have made tons of money if he had continued after DAF but it was too late.
  • edited September 6 Posts: 4,089
    Yes, I suspect he could have made a lot of money if he'd continued. But I think it was a 'between the lines' thing that he likely wasn't going to do it again (hence one of the things used to lure him back was having a two picture contract to make something he wanted to). Until NSNA anyway. Anyway it's for the best. Bond survived.

    Incidentally, I do think Lazenby was also ripped off a bit in terms of pay too, albeit in a much more low key way. Again, he didn't even make as much as Connery did for FRWL (not even half as much!) That's crazy. Even with how underwhelming OHMSS was it made enough to justify more.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 6 Posts: 16,309
    I guess it's a sign of the times that actors and producers don't talk about money nowadays, but CB did seem to be not great when it came to actors. Roger described the producers as being 'ill-mannered' by testing other actors before he'd said if he wouldn't do FYEO, and so initially refused to do it; he was actually one of the better negotiators and held firm on rejecting the £3m offered for Octopussy. Maybe it's because he came as a fully-fledged star that gave him the standing to be sure he could play the game as well as Cubby.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 6 Posts: 3,787
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess it's a sign of the times that actors and producers don't talk about money nowadays, but CB did seem to be not great when it came to actors. Roger described the producers as being 'ill-mannered' by testing other actors before he'd said if he wouldn't do FYEO, and so initially refused to do it; he was actually one of the better negotiators and held firm on rejecting the £3m offered for Octopussy. Maybe it's because he came as a fully-fledged star that gave him the standing to be sure he could play the game as well as Cubby.

    Probably a possible reason why he had turned down Deneuve even she'd decided to reduce her salary of large percentage, but still hired Bach because she's more cheaper, as she's not a big star like Deneuve is (despite of just auditioning for a minor role).
  • edited September 6 Posts: 1,314
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess it's a sign of the times that actors and producers don't talk about money nowadays, but CB did seem to be not great when it came to actors. Roger described the producers as being 'ill-mannered' by testing other actors before he'd said if he wouldn't do FYEO, and so initially refused to do it; he was actually one of the better negotiators and held firm on rejecting the £3m offered for Octopussy. Maybe it's because he came as a fully-fledged star that gave him the standing to be sure he could play the game as well as Cubby.

    The battle of the Bonds was good business for the actors.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,309
    Yes I'm sure that did help Roger's bargaining.

    Apparently, according to Roger, CB said his agent could "shit in his hat" :))
  • edited September 6 Posts: 4,089
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess it's a sign of the times that actors and producers don't talk about money nowadays, but CB did seem to be not great when it came to actors. Roger described the producers as being 'ill-mannered' by testing other actors before he'd said if he wouldn't do FYEO, and so initially refused to do it; he was actually one of the better negotiators and held firm on rejecting the £3m offered for Octopussy. Maybe it's because he came as a fully-fledged star that gave him the standing to be sure he could play the game as well as Cubby.

    Probably a possible reason why he had turned down Deneuve even she'd decided to reduce her salary of large percentage, but still hired Bach because she's more cheaper, as she's not a big star like Deneuve is (despite of just auditioning for a minor role).

    To some extent (Cubby didn’t want to pay more than $80,000 while Deneuve was willing to put her pay down to $250,000). But to be honest, I suspect there’s also an element that maybe she wasn’t of all that much interest for the role anyway (I think she herself simply wanted to play the part, but I don’t think Cubby ever seriously considered her. Not sure if I can see her in the role honestly, but I’ve probably not seen her in enough).
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess it's a sign of the times that actors and producers don't talk about money nowadays, but CB did seem to be not great when it came to actors. Roger described the producers as being 'ill-mannered' by testing other actors before he'd said if he wouldn't do FYEO, and so initially refused to do it; he was actually one of the better negotiators and held firm on rejecting the £3m offered for Octopussy. Maybe it's because he came as a fully-fledged star that gave him the standing to be sure he could play the game as well as Cubby.

    Yeah, I don’t think Cubby could have gotten away with underpaying Moore (don’t know who Moore’s agent was but I imagine his fame meant he had effective ones).

    But yeah, I think with those sorts of things there’s always an element of hard lines and tactics. I certainly can’t see EON going to the extent now of screen testing other actors while the old one is renegotiating (it’s not always an effective move anyway and is quite costly, so it’s not a bad thing they don’t do this). But as we’ve discussed on these forums with Brosnan’s ‘dismissal’ from Bond producers have to make tough choices that’s in their interests. It’s not a straightforward case of villains and good guys in that sense, despite questionable decisions and a relative bit of greed inherent to all this.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 6 Posts: 16,309
    Yep, there’s a bit of a wishful way of fan thinking to put everyone in ‘hero’ and ‘villain’ boxes, that Cubby was the lovely guy who made spaghetti for everyone whereas Barbara is the evil one who sacked poor defenceless Pierce, but there’s a bit more to it than that.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 6 Posts: 3,787
    mtm wrote: »
    Yep, there’s a bit of a wishful way of fan thinking to put everyone in ‘hero’ and ‘villain’ boxes, that Cubby was the lovely guy who made spaghetti for everyone whereas Barbara is the evil one who sacked poor defenceless Pierce, but there’s a bit more to it than that.

    Yes, and they've done those decisions for a reason, Barbara ended Pierce's Bond tenure because, story wise, she's going to reboot the series, for sure, she have felt that things already gone too far by DAD, and reboot means, a younger Bond.

    The same for some of Cubby's decisions, he's after the quality of the film after all, he'd rather give half of the money to the film production than to risk for the cast, although if aligned with his principles, he would give them a chance, he had mostly opted for actors that were not that much big, Roger Moore's fame was fading by the time in 70s, no longer as big as he was in 50s and 60s, much the same as Tony Curtis, his co star in The Persuaders who, by the late 60s was spending more time doing drugs because he's struggling to find an offer or a break, and I think that had something to do with Moore's age too, hence, he's much more affordable by the time Bond went to his calling, he had never hired big time actors, let alone in their peak of fame, he's mostly after Shakespearean, TV and small time Actors.

    Although this could be a contrary, as I'd bet, he would be willing to pay a big price to hire Bardot to play Tracy (that's if Connery would be doing Bond and would not play in Shalako), as Bardot was still big at that time and an icon, and if my memory serves, it's Cubby who wanted Bardot for the role, as is it Maibaum or Hunt who had stated that Cubby was a Francophile, I could possibly see of Bardot having a bigger paycheck than Connery if she's really cast.

    Yes, those perceptions of some when it comes to things like these were very much limited, I agree, there's more than meets the eye, as what they're always saying.

    And I think for Cubby's decisions, I think they're a bit reasonable.
  • I honestly don’t think anybody is seriously throwing Cubby or Barbara Broccoli into categories when criticizing their decisions. Yes perhaps there is a subset of fans who are more harsh towards Barbara Broccoli in large part due to how the Craig era went over with them; but by all means I have not seen anybody go onto praise Cubby in that same breath beyond the generic complaint of “Oh he’d already be working on Bond 26 by now.” So I don’t think it’s a case of playing favorites so much as it’s people not as aware of what Cubby was doing back in the day. I was shocked when I went back and read how some of those negotiations went between Moore and Cubby; I’d somewhat known the drama with Connery in large part due to the Everything or Nothing documentary from 2012, but reading Some Kind of Hero was quite the eye opening experience in that regard. In that sense, I don’t think Barbara has ever been are cruel as Cubby has. As much as I criticize the circumstances surrounding Brosnan's dismissal and the way it was handled, I also can recognize that Barbara has been no where near described as how mean Cubby could’ve gotten during some of those negotiations.

    On a larger point, these are Multi Million Dollar companies we’re talking about here; I don’t think they should be completely shielded from criticism even if it’s criticism you disagree with.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited September 6 Posts: 5,394
    Wow I came back to a lovely side discussion about the series and Connery's treatment within it. I will mention that Dick Van Dyke had some interesting insights into Cubby and Harry with Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. He had a loved one who was in a health emergency and he went to the producers to ask if he would be allowed to travel to see the family member, who was back in the States. They agreed to let him go back. Dick went and then returned as promised. When he received his pay the days he was away were deducted. When his agent went to EON they stated well Dick did go away for those days. Dick was not impressed that EON would do this to him. Overall he didn't enjoy the filming of Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang, but that is another story for another time.

    Lets stay in the world of fantasy for a moment and ponder this would you rather.

    Some on these boards have suggested an animated Bond might be cool, others have suggested a time period Bond movie might be interesting to explore. Lets ask the question:

    Would you rather an animated Bond series or movie OR a Live Action time period Bond film set in the 50's or 60's?

    Both have a wealth of creative places to go. I can see the merits in both, but which would you rather hear Barbara announce, assuming she won't yet announce Bond 26! LOL!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,309
    Gosh, I guess I’d have to pick a period live action of the two, but neither are winning options.
  • Posts: 4,089
    A time period animated Bond series adapting the Young Bond novels. Not sure if that’s in the spirit of this discussion but that’ll be my answer.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    I've always fathomed a series of Bond period pieces, and I don't care for animated films of such a genre. So I'd be happy with the period Bond set...while I would wish it started in the 50s, not the 60s.
  • A period piece most definitely, assuming that that means fully faithful adaptations to all the novels. It would be hard for me to take an animated Bond seriously
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,534
    Animated series. A very adult show with the sex and violence of the recent comics with great visual detail. And toy line too.

    I mean, a period film would be awesome, but the thing is, it would surely interfere with or take the place of getting a contemporary Bond film made, which should be the priority I think. Where as, an animated series could be handled by another creative team - meaning we can enjoy both cartoon and a film released side by side.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,147
    Live action, set in the '50s.
  • Posts: 1,314
    Period Bond movie. It's time.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited September 8 Posts: 5,394
    Interesting thoughts there about the format of a new adventure. I think neither is likely to happen.

    Lets dive into some production waters!

    Would you rather Amazon take more creative control of the Bond Universe OR EON continue to rube the creative force of the series?

    As the pause between films lengthen, one wonders if Amazon exerted some control of EON would that speed up the pace to a new film adventure? Would it even get us back in a regular production cycle of a new film every 2-3 years? Spin off series and expanding the Bond universe might also be in play to create content for Prime.

    Or is it better that the family business run things and go at their pace? After all they paused between Pierce and Daniel and the series didn't suffer. This pause will likely just increase the demand for the next film adventure.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 8 Posts: 3,787
    Amazon would've been interesting and could really be possible at this point, I'm interested to see spin offs or a TV (animated or not) series adapting the continuation novels for example if EON would not adapt them in film.

    After all, at this point, something about from family business seems a bit running out of mill at this point, like the long delay in the updates regarding the Bond 26, and they haven't release any Bond related shows or things to keep the fans at bay, look at that Bond video game, what happened in there? The only thing that keeps us going is the James Bond comics, and with the end of the current story (You Cold Cold Heart), there are no news about who would be the new writer for a Bond comic, at this point, we're all hanging in the air, waiting to receive something from Bond, if Amazon is there, it would help at least regarding the progression, and if Bond 26 does not still come out, at least they would do anything to keep the fans standing.

    We can't do anything Bond related at this point, rewatch the films back to back? Re-read the novels?

    But again, it depends, if Amazon would be involved in filmmaking, I'm worrying about the quality of the film, but hey, it's better than never, as EON stands for: It's Everything Or Nothing.

    So for that, with the given scenarios above, I'd give Amazon a shot.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 8 Posts: 3,147
    I'd prefer it if EON had sole creative control - although the leaked MGM/Sony emails from SP show that the input from the studios was far greater than most of us had perhaps presumed. BB felt she had to send out scripts to Sony even though Mendes and Logan only acquiesced to it 'under duress', as she put it, because they weren't ready; the studios demanded re-writes; sent scripts back (once even stating that 'besides being not good, it's a sloppy mess'!); trashed major plot points ('Blofeld as a woman is idiotic unless Meryl Streep does it. Doesn't even make sense in any world of reality'!); and suggested a ton of ideas, inc. C to be Blofeld in disguise; Madeleine to be a villain working with Blofeld all along; cutting out Tanner altogether and giving his scenes to Moneypenny; cutting out Leiter and Charlotte King; and changing EON's ending so that Bond didn't execute Blofeld with a headshot on Westminster Bridge. Those studio execs included people such as Amy Pascal, who BB liked and had worked with for years - can't help wondering how she'd respond to a similar level and type of input from Amazon execs she hasn't worked with before.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    I don't want any of the Internet streaming giants to have a say in this, be it Amazon, or Netflix, or Disney. It will be the end of James Bond as a cinematic experience, and we won't even be able to buy the movies on disk and instead have to subscribe to a streaming service. Not my cup of tea, and I'll certainly miss (double meaning!) any new Bond adventure in the future. But fortunately I have the 25 originals (plus NSNA and CR '67) on Blu-ray and will have to live with that.
  • Posts: 1,314
    The problem I see with Amazon is that it may have its own agendas. For example, they may want a more American Bond.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    The problem I see with Amazon is that it may have its own agendas. For example, they may want a more American Bond.
    Oh yes, they could revive Little Jimmy Bond and his British friend, Clarence Leiter.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,394
    It is interesting how Amazon getting involved might hurt the product long term. On the other hand, they would likely want to move and get something started. Barbara is obviously focused on getting Daniel's production of Othello to the screen. Frustrating that they aren't quite ready to get a Bond to the screen.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,757
    Could be a blessing in disguise, rather than fast-tracking the next film at this point in time. Box office successes are pretty inconsistent at the moment, and that's not even dependent on film quality.

  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 555
    The only good thing i could see is if they're nudging them to put films out every three-four years more often instead of 5-6 years which is what will probably happen between Bond 26.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    The only good thing i could see is if they're nudging them to put films out every three-four years more often instead of 5-6 years which is what will probably happen between Bond 26.

    My goodness, I'll be old and dead before Bond 50 comes. 😩
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    edited September 10 Posts: 555
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    The only good thing i could see is if they're nudging them to put films out every three-four years more often instead of 5-6 years which is what will probably happen between Bond 26.

    My goodness, I'll be old and dead before Bond 50 comes. 😩

    I've got it right here

    anBn


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