Would you rather run into Fields at the airport OR Paloma at a bar?

12627293132148

Comments

  • Posts: 15,097
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I liked both, but it only depends upon the design of the lair.

    * When it comes to the fantastical lairs, I liked the likes of Piz Gloria (OHMSS), Olympatec Meditation Institute (LTK), Drax's Space Shuttle (MR), and Scaramanga's Island (TMWTGG), for example.

    * But I'm not also a fan of Safin's lair (looked kinda dull, it's meant to be a Garden of Death from You Only Live Twice book, but failed), same for Blofeld's lair in SPECTRE (looked ordinary), and the Ice Palace in Die Another Day (too much cartoonish, almost unrealistic in appearance).

    * When it comes to the non fantastical, I really liked Silva's Abandoned Island in Skyfall, St. Cyril's Monastery in For Your Eyes Only, and the Crab Key in Dr. No, and Kananga's San Monique Cave Island in Live And Let Die.

    * When it comes to the ones I'm not a fan of, it would be Largo's Disco Volante in Thunderball, the same for Williard Whyte Building in Diamonds Are Forever (again, looked a bit dull), and Dominic Greene's Perla De Las Dunas in Quantum Of Solace (looked bland).

    So, I think it depends upon the design.

    And some villains do not have a lair like Trevelyan (unless one may count his Goldeneye satellite center in Cuba), and Le Chiffre (unless one may count the torture room 😅), and Elliot Carver doesn't have a lair either (unless one may count that stealth ship as his lair), the same for Elektra King/Renard (is it the tower or Elektra's house?), The same for Max Zorin (unless one may count his Manor in France), or Brad Whittaker (unless one may count his headquarters full of miniatures and figures).

    See, I'd say Silva's Island is pretty much fantastical, but I'm not convinced Piz Gloria is. I love both, mind you.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,787
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I liked both, but it only depends upon the design of the lair.

    * When it comes to the fantastical lairs, I liked the likes of Piz Gloria (OHMSS), Olympatec Meditation Institute (LTK), Drax's Space Shuttle (MR), and Scaramanga's Island (TMWTGG), for example.

    * But I'm not also a fan of Safin's lair (looked kinda dull, it's meant to be a Garden of Death from You Only Live Twice book, but failed), same for Blofeld's lair in SPECTRE (looked ordinary), and the Ice Palace in Die Another Day (too much cartoonish, almost unrealistic in appearance).

    * When it comes to the non fantastical, I really liked Silva's Abandoned Island in Skyfall, St. Cyril's Monastery in For Your Eyes Only, and the Crab Key in Dr. No, and Kananga's San Monique Cave Island in Live And Let Die.

    * When it comes to the ones I'm not a fan of, it would be Largo's Disco Volante in Thunderball, the same for Williard Whyte Building in Diamonds Are Forever (again, looked a bit dull), and Dominic Greene's Perla De Las Dunas in Quantum Of Solace (looked bland).

    So, I think it depends upon the design.

    And some villains do not have a lair like Trevelyan (unless one may count his Goldeneye satellite center in Cuba), and Le Chiffre (unless one may count the torture room 😅), and Elliot Carver doesn't have a lair either (unless one may count that stealth ship as his lair), the same for Elektra King/Renard (is it the tower or Elektra's house?), The same for Max Zorin (unless one may count his Manor in France), or Brad Whittaker (unless one may count his headquarters full of miniatures and figures).

    See, I'd say Silva's Island is pretty much fantastical, but I'm not convinced Piz Gloria is. I love both, mind you.

    What makes a fantastical lair?
    I don't know, I'm being confused.

    I mean Silva's island was just an abandoned island, it's not as bombastic as said, Stromberg's lair, meanwhile Piz Gloria, it's very fantastical (mountaintop clinic), even the design alone.

    Because for me, what makes a fantastical lair are those that's unrealistic and exaggerated, and I think Silva's hideout island was very much grounded, and Piz Gloria (even the concept alone) was far off from reality.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 15,097
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I liked both, but it only depends upon the design of the lair.

    * When it comes to the fantastical lairs, I liked the likes of Piz Gloria (OHMSS), Olympatec Meditation Institute (LTK), Drax's Space Shuttle (MR), and Scaramanga's Island (TMWTGG), for example.

    * But I'm not also a fan of Safin's lair (looked kinda dull, it's meant to be a Garden of Death from You Only Live Twice book, but failed), same for Blofeld's lair in SPECTRE (looked ordinary), and the Ice Palace in Die Another Day (too much cartoonish, almost unrealistic in appearance).

    * When it comes to the non fantastical, I really liked Silva's Abandoned Island in Skyfall, St. Cyril's Monastery in For Your Eyes Only, and the Crab Key in Dr. No, and Kananga's San Monique Cave Island in Live And Let Die.

    * When it comes to the ones I'm not a fan of, it would be Largo's Disco Volante in Thunderball, the same for Williard Whyte Building in Diamonds Are Forever (again, looked a bit dull), and Dominic Greene's Perla De Las Dunas in Quantum Of Solace (looked bland).

    So, I think it depends upon the design.

    And some villains do not have a lair like Trevelyan (unless one may count his Goldeneye satellite center in Cuba), and Le Chiffre (unless one may count the torture room 😅), and Elliot Carver doesn't have a lair either (unless one may count that stealth ship as his lair), the same for Elektra King/Renard (is it the tower or Elektra's house?), The same for Max Zorin (unless one may count his Manor in France), or Brad Whittaker (unless one may count his headquarters full of miniatures and figures).

    See, I'd say Silva's Island is pretty much fantastical, but I'm not convinced Piz Gloria is. I love both, mind you.

    What makes a fantastical lair?
    I don't know, I'm being confused.

    I mean Silva's island was just an abandoned island, it's not as bombastic as said, Stromberg's lair, meanwhile Piz Gloria, it's very fantastical (mountaintop clinic), even the design alone.

    Because for me, what makes a fantastical lair are those that's unrealistic and exaggerated, and I think Silva's hideout island was very much grounded, and Piz Gloria (even the concept alone) was far off from reality.

    All things being relative, I'd say fantastical is anything stretching considerably away from the realm of plausibility. It's not so much the thing as the context in which it exists. And something can be more or less fantastical. Like I said, there's not one clear cut.

    So a whole island for one man and his crew, like a necropolis or a ghost town, I'd say it's fantastical, especially in the way he acquired it. The place looks surreal, nightmarish even. Piz Gloria is far more grounded to Blofeld's previous lair. In the end, it's a private ski resort turned lab in a remote part of Switzerland. It's grand, it's outlandish, but otherwise not fantastical. It remains in the realm of plausibility.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,262
    Definitely the Bond villain should have a more fantastical lair(Blofeld's YOLT volcano is my favorite).
  • Posts: 572
    Have we ever done a rank the lairs thread? If not we should do one.

    That said, I'm all about the fantastical lairs. Its partly what got me into Bond in the first place.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,534
    Prefer my Bond world to be a touch more fantastic than real life, though it's a nice refresher to get something more grounded now and then.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,272
    I liked the more grounded lair at the end of TLD but like SP I thought the movie needed to spend more time there. As in, Bond was imprisoned there and had to escape (which would have the benefit of removing the Leiter storyline entirely from this movie).
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,394
    Based on another thread where we discussed the continuity or lack thereof of the series I thought it might be good to see what everyone's thoughts were!

    The series has had 6 different actors play the role. In the first 20 films the continuity was hit and miss. Actors had different M's and Mi6 staff. The character rarely referred or brought up previous missions. Even the biggest villain of the series was played by three different actors in three different movies.

    Then in the last 5 films we had one actor play Bond, same supporting cast. Villain returned for 2 films. We had the love of the first movie referenced through out the remaining films. We had a Bond who earned the 00 and watched him develop and grow as a field agent. Yes some of the events were ret-conned to make sense but the character was allowed to grow and develop,

    So Mi6 community would you rather a Bond where each film is almost a stand alone adventure OR each Bond film leads and builds to a character arc?

    Do we appreciate continuity in the series or long for the days when Bond did his mission with nary a mention of previous assignments?
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,787
    Standalone for now, sometimes continuity makes our head aches 😅.
    So, if it's standalone, we're just going to enjoy those films without overthinking.

    And after the interconnected series in the Craig Era, a standalone series would've been refreshing.

    Edit: I do experienced it in this thread: https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18721/bonds-final-mission-avtak-or#latest
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    A larger, connected arc both for character and story. It doesn’t have to be like the Craig era, just because there’s a progression to a final chapter.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,534
    Stand alone adventures. But you can have a bit of series continuity in there while still giving each film it's own distinct identity. Not really a fan of story arcs in Bond films if it's all so tied together, to me that's when the films start to lose their individual flavour.
  • Posts: 1,969
    The problem with an arc is having to see it through even when its run out of steam.
  • I think the reason Bond survived for so long is because people can dip in and out without being concerned about continuity. Plus I don’t think EON really handled Craig’s “arc” well at all; there seemed to be very little foresight into planning it out ahead of time. So I’m voting for a return to Stand Alone adventures.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,092
    The thing is, even in the classic Bond era, the standalone adventures still had some sort of continuity.
    - Dr. No is mentioned in From Russia With Love.
    - Bond packing Honey's belt, Grant's watch and the underwater breather in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
    - Tereza is referenced lots of times in the following outings: The Spy Who Loved Me, For Your Eyes Only, Licence To Kill, The World is Not Enough.
    - The gadget storage scene in Die Another Day.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited August 2023 Posts: 667
    [deleted]
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 6,709
    Standalone. Have a film rely on its own strengths and not be binded for better or for worse to previous narratives.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,787
    The thing is, even in the classic Bond era, the standalone adventures still had some sort of continuity.
    - Dr. No is mentioned in From Russia With Love.
    - Bond packing Honey's belt, Grant's watch and the underwater breather in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
    - Tereza is referenced lots of times in the following outings: The Spy Who Loved Me, For Your Eyes Only, Licence To Kill, The World is Not Enough.
    - The gadget storage scene in Die Another Day.

    And that's what makes the problem a bit though: sure, it's made to show that Bond is the same guy, but like what was talked in the other thread, it gives us a lot of conclusions, for example, how come that Bond doesn't get old, that in every new Bond film, he goes back to being young again? Some even having a theory that those Bond actors got regenerated a la Dr. Who (Timelord) 😅.

    It's stretching out the credibility.

    See this: https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18721/bonds-final-mission-avtak-or#latest

    With standalone films, there's no need to make up for conclusions like that, about the timeline and etc.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 16,308
    peter wrote: »
    A larger, connected arc both for character and story. It doesn’t have to be like the Craig era, just because there’s a progression to a final chapter.

    Yep, absolutely. I want an arc. Ian Fleming thought it was a good idea too.

    They do have to make sure everything is explained within each film though: it should always be accessible to someone who hasn't seen the last one and won't see the next. Mission Impossible Fallout does that rather brilliantly: it includes the baddie from the previous film and Ethan's wife from three films previously, but both are explained to the audience before they appear in the story.
  • The simple reality is the Bond films were made long before audiences really gave a damn about continuity. Nowadays with so many shared universes people try to over analyze the Bond films and how they may all fit into a timeline. I think Connery through Brosnan’s Bond is intended to be the same character mostly. Whereas Craig’s version was a new incarnation entirely. I try not to read to much into it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,308
    The simple reality is the Bond films were made long before audiences really gave a damn about continuity.

    Although funnily enough the first few 007 films had rather large amounts of continuity which the series didn't return to until relatively recently. He sees the same woman in the first two, Dr No is mentioned in the next film, Spectre want revenge on Bond; he drives the same car, carries the same gadgets from one film to another... other Bonds like Roger or Pierce had nowhere near the same level of continuity, and I think it's a bit of a shame.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,092
    The simple reality is the Bond films were made long before audiences really gave a damn about continuity. Nowadays with so many shared universes people try to over analyze the Bond films and how they may all fit into a timeline. I think Connery through Brosnan’s Bond is intended to be the same character mostly. Whereas Craig’s version was a new incarnation entirely. I try not to read to much into it.

    As i said on the "Last Mission: AVTAK?" thread, i see the classic Bond era as two continuities:
    One goes from Connery->Lazenby->Moore, then the franchise gets a soft-reboot and we have the other one, which is Dalton->Brosnan.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,394
    Gentle reminder that this thread is "would you rather" I appreciate the dialogue but please include what you would rather, an interconnected series of films or basically stand alone stories.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    Dwayne wrote: »
    While I don’t want the Bond villain’s center of operations to be a corner deli ...
    Not even in stainless steel???
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,008
    thedove wrote: »
    So Mi6 community would you rather a Bond where each film is almost a stand alone adventure OR each Bond film leads and builds to a character arc?

    Do we appreciate continuity in the series or long for the days when Bond did his mission with nary a mention of previous assignments?
    I think they have taken continuity too far in the Craig era (and I'm still a big fan of three of the five, including two of the ones I seem to be criticizing right now). It felt forced to have that Bloberhauser-foster brother nonsense connecting at least the final three. The earlier Blofeld trilogy (in mixed-up order from the novels) at least did not try to actually connect the films, if simply by using different actors for Blofeld.

    It's ok to have continuity regarding major events in our hero's life (say referring to Tracy's death and the like), but every Bond movie should also be acceptable as a stand-alone film and should NEVER end in a cliffhanger or be designated as Episode 1 so people have to come back just to see how it ends. That's a thing you can do in free-TV series, but I find it fatal in feature movies.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,308
    They never did that though.
  • Posts: 1,858
    Stand alone because they don't do arcs well. Call backs are fine but the main plot should not hinge on the previous episode.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,194
    I wouldn't mind a certain amount of continuity within the framework of a series of stand alone adventures; but I don't want to see a series of five films that continue the same storyline.

    If there is a certain amount of continuity I hope that it well thought out and not retconned to force a plot element
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,272
    I am tired of Blofeld but if we have to have him again I would hope they would lean into the "master of disguise" nature of him...the problem is that the public will expect the bald, scarred YOLT Blofeld, no matter what the filmmakers do.

    So I vote for standalone.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,571
    A little of both. I would have loved to see Anya back in AVTAK or Wai Lin in DAD just to keep some sort of individual actor continuity. I enjoyed the Craig era. But I don't want another version of it again.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Standalone. But I wish that EON had held off on using SPECTRE & Blofeld, and instead drip-feed them into the next actors era, increasing their presence more with each film. Oh well, it doesn't matter now.
Sign In or Register to comment.