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Yep, same here, I’m afraid :(
Besides, there’s always this argument in favour of LTK:
Cain and Abel allegory: one is the beloved son, one was forsaken so he exacts his revenge.
The underwater action/water ski/plane fight sequence in LTk is better than a lot of action scenes in NTTD...only the Matera sequence is in its class. Plus, LTK might be the last suspenseful Bond film, where there's a genuine worry for Bond....if Sanchez finds him out.
Defloria was asking. I gave my answer. And I’m on record as being quite sore with Spectre…
I quite like the Cain and Abel allegory, generally. It’s effective in storytelling.
However, bringing up Spectre again makes me think of one of the reasons why I find NTTD quite a brilliant film: weeks and months after seeing Spectre, it dropped severely in my rankings. But……
After doing a complete Craig Appreciation Week in my household, where one of my kids and I watched each of his Bond films, one a night, and in order, Spectre has now climbed into a mid-tier ranking for me.
Why?
Because NTTD took most of the Spectre threads and gave it relevancy.
It’s because of NTTD, that I can now enjoy Spectre…
It had quite the opposite effect on me, I’m afraid. But I’m happy you liked it so much, my friend, it almost makes me want to like it more. I’ve tried, and it has its moments, NTTD, I mean. But both films are awfully written. They are technically well executed, beautiful to watch, with very good production values, stylishly done. But in the end, awfully written, with lots of poor decisions. The foster brother angle and Bond having a daughter and then dying, just ruins the whole Craig era ethos for me. I understand the personal angle they were aiming for up until SF, but it all went downhill. IMO, of course.
I’m not the biggest LTK fan either, btw. I’m more of a TLD kind of Bond fan.
Also, much respect for @peter because of his NTTD reviews, I've tried to watch it to find that wonderful thing, but I still cannot.
Couldn’t agree more. What’s your number one?
Oh, not because it's the best Bond film, but Tomorrow Never Dies is a Bond film I love a lot and is my favourite. To this day, Brosnan's Bond ultra-confident performance in it, is infectious. GE is his best Bond film for sure, but TND hits the right chords for me.
I simply love TND.
The first 4 Connery films + OHMSS + TLD + GE/TND are my Bond essentials. I also appreciate CR/QOS/SF. And I must confess myself a TMWTGG fan (oh well…).
But TND hits so many right notes that I can’t help but loving it.
Same here. NTTD made me revisit SP with the benefit of hindsight, and I’ve softened up on the film as a result. But my Annual Bondathon is still two films away from the Craig era, so I have no idea how SP will stack up against the other films this go-around.
Two weak villains in NTTD cause me to focus on other things in the film, of which there are many to appreciate. But a Bond film is always about a confrontation with the bad guy, which is why LTK gets my vote. Sanchez is up there with Grant as villains who are particularly nasty.
We get to the end of the Quantum/SPECTRE saga with Bond inadvertently killing the author of his pain, whereas Safin's motive for killing Blofeld turns out to be more important to the script writers than Bond's motive. Bond shooting Safin somehow feels hollow and unsatisfying.
I don't believe we knew at the time LTK would be TD's finale, but the stakes seemed so much greater taking on Sanchez than what NTTD offered. For Craig, his magnum opus will always be CR.
Maybe I misunderstood - I thought this was about the ENDING of the movie. Winking fish and all. LTK definitely not a favorite of mine; TLD is, though.
Talking about doing things differently that didn't work, I think NTTD tops the lot - kill Felix, kill Brofeld, give Bond a daughter, turn 007 into a woman, make Bond retire for 5 years and live like a loner, and then kill Bond off completely.
LTK in comparison is fairly standard, but was ahead of its time back in 89, and eventually became the template for the entire Craig era.
Yes, unfortunately NTTD is connected to SP, a film I really don't like. But regardless of the Foster brother debacle, I think NTTD is a great Bond film. A lot of flaws, yes, but I prefer it to LTK...
I prefer Pam
But Lupe was still very easy on the eyes.
Well, at least it's only Lupe who fell for Bond (and Bond had clearly no feelings towards her), and considering the nature of her character (she's a hooker, a gold digger who would stick to every man just to get out of Sanchez's world), it's meant to be taken with that concept in mind (in short, not meant to be taken seriously), we've seen how she functioned as a character for the first and second act of the film (cheating on Sanchez by sleeping with another man and her liking Sanchez because he's rich), so that word, as for me, I take it as like out of depth or just an overwhelmed expression since she felt the security on Bond, she saw Bond as an opportunity.
My problem with that was more on Talisa Soto's delivery of the line.
Now, with Madeleine, her declaration of love for Bond (despite of her hating him and not knowing him that much), well she's not an opportunist or a gold digger like Lupe either but a professional, now that's rushed and literally came out of nowhere.
What's worst, was Bond also fell in love with this woman despite of him not knowing her that much, their love came out of nowhere, and it's hard to buy, even their romance in NTTD, it's literally too far for these people that only got knew of each other for weeks or so?
There's no development in that, so they've made out in the train and Bond fell in love with her, then Madeleine declared her love for Bond in Blofeld's lair then Bond retired, then they've started cohabitating in NTTD and they've had a child, like it's all too quick to happen.
Then suddenly Bond dumped Madeleine because he thought she betrayed him? Trust issues? But that's the problem that Bond didn't saw coming in the first place, he put his heart on this woman without knowing her that much, only for Bond to dump her because Madeleine had some secrets that he didn't know? Then that makes Bond a bit stupid, right?
The problem with Bond and Madeleine's relationship was it's meant to be taken seriously, but it's hard because of how rushed and poorly written it was.
The problem with Lupe Lamora was Talisa Soto's acting (definitely worthy of Razzie), but in Madeleine and Bond, it's a problem of the script.
In the Lupe Lamora character, I think it could be done better with a better actress, but in Madeleine and Bond's relationship, I doubt any actors/actress could've saved that script.
Bond and the audience in OHMSS have seen Tracy's resourcefulness in saving his life and Bond's appreciation of her, so he and we understand that she is the one.
The script in SP never gave us that chance, to see why Bond falls in love with Madeleine and decides to leave the service. The hotel scene with Madeleine drunk/lowering her guard was a nudge in that direction, but the script needed a lot more of that.
In SP we have a markedly stronger actor playing Bond in a suddenly significant relationship than in OHMSS, but the acting doesn't matter if it's not on the page.
NTTD does a much more credible job of showing us that relationship. It's the actors and the script and the direction, but also the song and score. Billie Eilish was an inspired choice. Her song is my favorite since at least You Know My Name.
I must be clear that I’m also on record as being very disappointed when it was reported Swann was back in NTTD. I didn’t have any hope as I felt that the two leads, in the previous film, were lacking in chemistry.
I was happily surprised, and then genuinely moved, by Bond and Madeleine in NTTD.
So my theory, whatever it’s worth, is that Mendes didn’t do a good job at all directing the two leads in Spectre, and Fukunaga did a brilliant job.