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Bond vs The Oscars

MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
in Bond Movies Posts: 8,215
Saw someone call INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY better than OPPENHEIMER, and I thought that was such an apples and oranges kind of argument. “Might as well pit THE GODFATHER PART II with THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN… and that’s why this thread exists. Here’s the Bond films against the Oscar winning films the year they came out! Which do you prefer? All Bonds? Maybe a few are actually better? I think there’s some close ties between a few titles, but some obviously not close…


1962: DR. NO vs LAWRENCE OF ARABIA
1963: FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE vs TOM JONES
1964: GOLDFINGER vs MY FAIR LADY
1965: THUNDERBALL vs THE SOUND OF MUSIC
1967: YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE vs IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT
1969: ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE vs MIDNIGHT COWBOY
1971: DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER vs THE FRENCH CONNECTION
1973: LIVE AND LET DIE vs THE STING
1974: THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN vs THE GODFATHER PART II
1977: THE SPY WHO LOVED ME vs ANNIE HALL
1979: MOONRAKER vs KRAMER VS KRAMER
1981: FOR YOUR EYES ONLY vs CHARIOTS OF FIRE
1983: OCTOPUSSY vs TERMS OF ENDEARMENT
1985: A VIEW TO A KILL vs OUT OF AFRICA
1987: THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS vs THE LAST EMPEROR
1989: LICENCE TO KILL vs DRIVING MISS DAISY
1995: GOLDENEYE vs BRAVEHEART
1997: TOMORROW NEVER DIES vs TITANIC
1999: THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH vs AMERICAN BEAUTY
2002: DIE ANOTHER DAY vs CHICAGO
2006: CASINO ROYALE vs THE DEPARTED
2008: QUANTUM OF SOLACE vs SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE
2012: SKYFALL vs ARGO
2015: SPECTRE vs SPOTLIGHT
2021 NO TIME TO DIE vs CODA

I haven’t seen every Oscar winner, so I’ll just list the years I’ve seen as such..

62 LAWRENCE OF ARABIA - only saw it once, but it was a in a theater and I dug the hell out of this.

69 OHMSS - I think both are great but I definitely give Bond the edge. Both films were scored by Barry, both are great!

71 THE FRENCH CONNECTION - I love DAF, but this is a no contest and has a car chase more Bond should have.

74 THE GODFATHER PART II - I mean… this isn’t even fair. TMWTGG had no chance for any year.

77 THE SPY WHO LOVED ME - I only saw ANNIE HALL once. Just not really into Woody Allen films. If this was MANHATTAN though then I might have picked that.

79 MOONRAKER - Of course if APOCALYPSE NOW had won that year instead of KRAMER VS KRAMER, this wouldn’t be a contest.

87 THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS - I only saw THE LAST EMPEROR once and that was a long time ago. I should give that a revisit cause I did like that one.

89 LICENCE TO KILL - I’m sorry, the winner is too schmaltzy even for Oscar standards.

95 GOLDENEYE - Can’t say BRAVEHEART ever stood out to me. Sorry Mel, don’t yell at me.

97 TITANIC - HAHAHAHAHA. I’m serious.

99 AMERICAN BEAUTY - I don’t even like TWINE, so no discussion there.

06 THE DEPARTED - This was very close! I

08 QUANTUM OF SOLACE - I don’t think I’ve seen a Danny Boyle movie that I’ve liked.

12 SKYFALL - “Argo **** yourself”, couldn’t resist that line. Good movie! I just like SF better.

15 SPECTRE - I think I would have preferred THE REVERANT, aka LEO VS THE BEAR.

Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,597
    On the whole, I think the Oscars probably picked the right ones there!

    The only ones I'd say were even close would be:

    GOLDFINGER vs MY FAIR LADY

    Honestly, I find it hard to pick there. They're both pretty great, and both in the popcorn realm.

    CASINO ROYALE vs THE DEPARTED

    That's close. I don't know there, may have to give to give it to Departed, but might change my mind on another day.

    SKYFALL vs ARGO

    That's Skyfall for the win. Argo's a decent film, but it's not really anything amazing- I think SF is a more impressive film.


    Now, one thing which is upsetting is to see which songs or scores won Oscars in Bond years, and how often John Barry was thoroughly robbed!
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited July 2023 Posts: 1,673
    mtm wrote: »
    Now, one thing which is upsetting is to see which songs or scores won Oscars in Bond years, and how often John Barry was thoroughly robbed!

    I recently watched FRWL with someone who had never seen a Bond movie before and they couldn't believe, after I informed them of how prolific and talented Barry is, that they'd never heard of him before.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    That is a real shame, although bear in mind he didn't write the song for that one! :)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,673
    mtm wrote: »
    That is a real shame, although bear in mind he didn't write the song for that one! :)

    Trust me, we discussed it, as I said it was a shame it plays over the later credits and not earlier (except for when it plays on the radio in-movie).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    Yeah it's quite weird that the opening credits see Barry arranging two tracks he didn't write (FRWL & James Bond theme) into one!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,082
    Wow! How come it isn't possible to "quote" the original posting (that started the thread) in order to respond to it, unlike any other responses that can be easily quoted in their entirety (thanks to a "quote" button), making it easy to respond? I'd like to form an answer based on each individual entry on @MakeshiftPython's list, but in what is basically the middle of the night for me don't really feel like trying. I guess here we have a "bug" of the board system that should be cured any time soon.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    Oh yeah, how strange.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    I see the quote option right under my post. Hovering over the bolded “comments”
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,082
    I just checked several other threads, and there is indeed no "quote" option under any of the starter posts. I never noticed that before. Of course, one can copy and paste the contents, but not with a single click as with all the others.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited July 2023 Posts: 2,160
    1962: DR. NO vs LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (saw LoA once and it was plenty enough)
    1964: GOLDFINGER vs MY FAIR LADY
    1965: THUNDERBALL vs THE SOUND OF MUSIC (same as LoA)
    1967: YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE vs IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT (I love YOLT but ITHOTN is just an exceptional film)
    1969: ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE vs MIDNIGHT COWBOY
    1971: DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER vs THE FRENCH CONNECTION
    1973: LIVE AND LET DIE vs THE STING
    1974: THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN vs THE GODFATHER PART II
    1979: MOONRAKER vs KRAMER VS KRAMER
    1995: GOLDENEYE vs BRAVEHEART (not a fan of either, but BH is the lesser of two evils)
    1997: TOMORROW NEVER DIES vs TITANIC
    1999: THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH vs AMERICAN BEAUTY
    2002: DIE ANOTHER DAY vs CHICAGO (same as 1995)
    2006: CASINO ROYALE vs THE DEPARTED
    2008: QUANTUM OF SOLACE vs SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE
    2012: SKYFALL vs ARGO
    2015: SPECTRE vs SPOTLIGHT
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    Thunderball more deserving of best picture than Sound of Music? Can't agree there: even actual fans of James Bond don't agree over TB's merits! :) Whereas Sound of Music is an all-time classic - I think the Oscars got that one right.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,160
    mtm wrote: »
    Thunderball more deserving of best picture than Sound of Music? Can't agree there: even actual fans of James Bond don't agree over TB's merits! :) Whereas Sound of Music is an all-time classic - I think the Oscars got that one right.
    It’s not about which movie is more deserving of the Oscar, it’s about which movie I prefer.
    If I had my way, The Ipcress File would take Best Picture for 1965.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,160
    For the record, I think only FRWL and OHMSS could be considered serious contenders for Best Picture, since they are more than just very good Bond films.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Thunderball more deserving of best picture than Sound of Music? Can't agree there: even actual fans of James Bond don't agree over TB's merits! :) Whereas Sound of Music is an all-time classic - I think the Oscars got that one right.
    It’s not about which movie is more deserving of the Oscar, it’s about which movie I prefer.

    Yeah that’s kind of the point I should have clarified at the start.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,477
    1962: DR. NO vs LAWRENCE OF ARABIA
    1963: FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE vs TOM JONES
    1964: GOLDFINGER vs MY FAIR LADY
    1965: THUNDERBALL vs THE SOUND OF MUSIC
    1967: YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE vs IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT
    1969: ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE vs MIDNIGHT COWBOY
    1971: DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER vs THE FRENCH CONNECTION
    1973: LIVE AND LET DIE vs THE STING
    1974: THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN vs THE GODFATHER PART II
    1977: THE SPY WHO LOVED ME vs ANNIE HALL
    1979: MOONRAKER vs KRAMER VS KRAMER
    1981: FOR YOUR EYES ONLY vs CHARIOTS OF FIRE
    1983: OCTOPUSSY vs TERMS OF ENDEARMENT
    1985: A VIEW TO A KILL vs OUT OF AFRICA
    1987: THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS vs THE LAST EMPEROR
    1989: LICENCE TO KILL vs DRIVING MISS DAISY
    1995: GOLDENEYE vs BRAVEHEART
    1997: TOMORROW NEVER DIES vs TITANIC
    1999: THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH vs AMERICAN BEAUTY
    2002: DIE ANOTHER DAY vs CHICAGO
    2006: CASINO ROYALE vs THE DEPARTED
    2008: QUANTUM OF SOLACE vs SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE
    2012: SKYFALL vs ARGO
    2015: SPECTRE vs SPOTLIGHT
    2021 NO TIME TO DIE vs CODA

    17 years I would take watching Bond over the Best Picture of the Year. In some cases it was default as I hadn't watched the Best Picture. Some cases it was difficult if both movies were good and had been watched.

    Wow Lawrence of Arabia in the same category as Argo? The Sting in the same category as Slumdog Millionaire? Wow the academy doesn't always get it right.
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,021
    My turn, with the caveat that I will only note the Oscar-winning movies that I have seen :

    1962 : Lawrence of Arabia
    1963 : My Fair Lady
    1967 : In the Heat of the Night
    1971 : The French Connection
    1973 : The Sting
    1974 : The Godfather Part II
    1997 : Titanic
    2002 : Chicago

    I would be more at ease with the songs :

    1962 : "Underneath the Mango Tree" Vs. "Days of Wine and Roses"
    1963 : "From Russia with Love" Vs "Call me irresponsible" (and frankly, "Charade" should have won).
    1964 : "Goldfinger" vs "Chim Chim Cher-ee"
    1965 : "Thunderball" vs. "The Shadow of your Smile"
    1967 : "You only live twice" vs. "Talk to the Animals (and the same happens if you take "The Look of Love, who would win a contest between the two Bond songs for that year)
    1969 : "We have all the Time in the World" Vs. "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head" (although it's quite close).
    1971 : "Diamonds are Forever" Vs. "Theme from Saft"
    1973 : "Live and Let Die" Vs. "The Way we were"
    1974 : "The Man with the Golden Gun" Vs. "We May Never Love Like This Again"
    1977 : "Nobody does it better" Vs. "You Light Up My Life"
    1979 : "Moonraker" Vs. "It goes like it goes"
    1981 : "For your Eyes only" Vs. "Arthur's Theme (Best That You Can Do)"
    1983 : "All Time High" Vs. "Flashdance... What a Feeling"
    1985 : "A View to a Kill" Vs. "Say You, Say me"
    1987 : "The Living Daylights" Vs. "(I've Had) The Time of My Life"
    1989 : License to Kill Vs. "Under the Sea"
    1995 : "Goldeneye" Vs. "Colours of the Wind"
    1997 : "Tomorrow never dies" Vs. "My Heart will go on"
    1999 : "The World is not enough" Vs. "You'll be in my Heart
    2002 : "Die another Day" Vs. "Lose yourself"
    2006 : "You know my Name" Vs. "An Inconvenient Truth"
    2008 : "Another Way to die" Vs. "Jai Ho"

    And the last three, you know their names.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    You gave me an idea @Gerard

    Here’s the 2015 Best Song Winner and noms…

    awVqzl4.jpg

    Given how unpopular WOTW is among Bond circles, did the Academy really pick the best song of the five?

    For what it’s worth, a few days ago I just heard WOTW on a store radio while shopping for groceries. Whatever our feelings of the song, it’s proven to have longevity.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    edited July 2023 Posts: 9,082
    All right, I'll give it a try:

    1962: DR. NO vs LAWRENCE OF ARABIA
    1963: FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE vs TOM JONES - full disclosure: haven't seen TJ, but it can't be better than my probably favourite Bond movie
    1964: GOLDFINGER vs MY FAIR LADY - As much as I love GF, MFL is perfect.
    1965: THUNDERBALL vs THE SOUND OF MUSIC - Undecided. Never seen Sound of Music (it is virtually unknown over here!), and am not particularly fond of TB.
    1967: YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE vs IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT - Close Call, but YOLT is second-tier Bond for me, while In the Heat... is a masterpiece
    1969: ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE vs MIDNIGHT COWBOY - The latter has good actors for the two top characters going for it, OHMSS has only one...and it isn't George
    1971: DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER vs THE FRENCH CONNECTION - Not a contest, really, although DAF is fun to watch
    1973: LIVE AND LET DIE vs THE STING - and I do love LALD
    1974: THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN vs THE GODFATHER PART II - The latter is one of the best five or ten movies ever made, the former is in the lowest third of Bond films
    1977: THE SPY WHO LOVED ME vs ANNIE HALL - A bit like comparing apples and oranges, but Annie Hall is maybe Allen's best film, while TSWLM has decreased in my appreciation for years and looks incredibly dated
    1979: MOONRAKER vs KRAMER VS KRAMER - Haven't seen KvsK because I can't stand that marriage drama stuff. I don't doubt that a Hoffman/Streep picture is the better film by basically all standards, but MR keeps growing on me all the time, so I''m rather sure a rewatch would be the choice for me
    1981: FOR YOUR EYES ONLY vs CHARIOTS OF FIRE - Haven't seen Chariots for lack of interest in the subject, but basically suppose what I wrote for the 1979 choice applies here equally, so I'll give the edge to FYEO (though I think the soundtrack for Chariots is much better
    1983: OCTOPUSSY vs TERMS OF ENDEARMENT - Lucky for Octopussy, which I really don't like very much, that I haven't seen Terms of Endearment. Probably for the same reasons that I haven't felt like watching KvsK. Still it can't be more than a tie
    1985: A VIEW TO A KILL vs OUT OF AFRICA - Absolutely no contest. Even John Barry's score for the latter is so much better than his effort for AVTAK that it would secure OoA's victory. Add Streep and Redford and Brandauer and Pollack and a marvelous cinematography, and AVTAK is relegated to the status of a TV show
    1987: THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS vs THE LAST EMPEROR - TLD is one of the better Bond films, but Bertolucci's movie is a definite masterpiece
    1989: LICENCE TO KILL vs DRIVING MISS DAISY - I haven't seen DMD again for thirty years, but I remember it being a very good movie with great performances by Jessica Tandy and Morgan Freeman.
    1995: GOLDENEYE vs BRAVEHEART - Neither is bad, and I've seen Braveheart only once. But my IMDb score for GE is 8/10 and only 7/10 for Braveheart
    1997: TOMORROW NEVER DIES vs TITANIC - I'm not into James Cameron films and have avoided his latest and never rewatched most of the others, and Titanic is no exception
    1999: THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH vs AMERICAN BEAUTY - The latter is a brilliant film, actually Sam Mendes' masterpiece (and much better than at least what he did with SPECTRE). TWINE is my second-least favourite Bond movie.
    2002: DIE ANOTHER DAY vs CHICAGO - Again, no contest at all. It took me almost twenty years to watch Chicago, but I rated it 9/10 while DAD (at 4/10) keeps sticking at the rock bottom of the Bond franchise for me
    2006: CASINO ROYALE vs THE DEPARTED - I must admit I forgot all about The Departed. But it's Scorsese and I'll have to watch it again. I rated it 8/10 when I watched it years ago. But CR has always been a 9/10 and among the top five Bond films for me
    2008: QUANTUM OF SOLACE vs SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE - I don't hate QOS (and was much opposed for not doing it on the late IMDb Bond board), but it's my least favourite Craig film...ok, maybe tied with SP. Slumdog Millionaire, on the other hand, is one of Danny Boyle's masterpieces, and still think it's a shame he didn't get to direct a Bond movie
    2012: SKYFALL vs ARGO - Argo is great, but SF is tied with a couple of others in the realm of being my favourite Bond film
    2015: SPECTRE vs SPOTLIGHT - I actually had to look up what Spotlight was but then remembered what it was about and that I liked it. And in fact more so than that bloated nonsense that was SP
    2021 NO TIME TO DIE vs CODA - Haven't seen CODA, but don't think it would beat yet another one of my top five Bond films.
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,021
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    You gave me an idea @Gerard

    Here’s the 2015 Best Song Winner and noms…

    awVqzl4.jpg

    Given how unpopular WOTW is among Bond circles, did the Academy really pick the best song of the five?

    For what it’s worth, a few days ago I just heard WOTW on a store radio while shopping for groceries. Whatever our feelings of the song, it’s proven to have longevity.

    Well, that year, I would have preferred Lady Gaga to win.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    Gerard wrote: »
    1977 : "Nobody does it better" Vs. "You Light Up My Life"
    1981 : "For your Eyes only" Vs. "Arthur's Theme (Best That You Can Do)"

    And these two were actually nominated; Hamlisch was nominated for best score too (understandably lost against Star Wars). How come these get nominated but Barry doesn't? Madness.
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,021
    Well, Barry was nominated, and even won, but not for Bond, alas.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,215
    Barry submitted “We Have All the Time in the World” and it still got snubbed.

    I’m guessing after that he just gave up submitting his Bond work and focused more on his non-Bond submissions. I guess you could say that worked out for him, as he went onto win FIVE Oscars. I think only John Williams ties with him on that amount of wins, but Alfred Newman still tops it with 9.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,082
    Do they actually "submit" their work or are they just picked? I mean, I don't suppose any actor applies to the Academy to award him/her as best actor, and neither any director, so why should the composer of the score or of the title song do it?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,597
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Barry submitted “We Have All the Time in the World” and it still got snubbed.

    I’m guessing after that he just gave up submitting his Bond work and focused more on his non-Bond submissions. I guess you could say that worked out for him, as he went onto win FIVE Oscars. I think only John Williams ties with him on that amount of wins, but Alfred Newman still tops it with 9.

    I do think it's mad that his Bond scores weren't nominated. I was going to say that I wonder if perhaps the Bond theme itself, having been credited to another composer, was an issue- but then TSWLM's score was nominated, so it can't be that.

    All The Time in the World would have been up against Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head, which is a tough one to beat. I think it certainly merited a nom over a couple of the others in that category though ('Come Saturday Morning' from "The Sterile Cuckoo"?).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited July 2023 Posts: 8,215
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Do they actually "submit" their work or are they just picked? I mean, I don't suppose any actor applies to the Academy to award him/her as best actor, and neither any director, so why should the composer of the score or of the title song do it?

    The studios do the submissions for films that they think have a chance and then does a ton of “for your consideration” marketing for the academy members. I don’t think the Academy “picks” whatever they like in the voting process without submissions by the studio (I could be wrong).

    In the case of OHMSS, Cubby would submit Barry’s song, but it doesn’t get enough votes for nominations.

    It’s only my theory that Barry didn’t want his later Bond music submitted. Because while WHATTITW got snubbed, just four years later Paul McCartney would actually get a nomination, so the snobbery MUST have subsided by that point because two more songs within the next eight years would get nominated (“Nobody Does it Better” and “For Your Eyes Only”).

    One would think at least by the 70s the Academy members of the music division would start voting for songs or scores by Barry if they’re voting for his contemporaries… but they didn’t. Unless someone can confirm otherwise, my theory is that Barry didn’t want his Bond material submitted anymore. So instead of having Eon submit AVTAK for best score, he has OUT OF AFRICA submitted because he thinks that has a higher chance of winning… and it ultimately did.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 2023 Posts: 3,800
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Barry submitted “We Have All the Time in the World” and it still got snubbed.

    I’m guessing after that he just gave up submitting his Bond work and focused more on his non-Bond submissions. I guess you could say that worked out for him, as he went onto win FIVE Oscars. I think only John Williams ties with him on that amount of wins, but Alfred Newman still tops it with 9.

    I do think it's mad that his Bond scores weren't nominated. I was going to say that I wonder if perhaps the Bond theme itself, having been credited to another composer, was an issue- but then TSWLM's score was nominated, so it can't be that.

    All The Time in the World would have been up against Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head, which is a tough one to beat. I think it certainly merited a nom over a couple of the others in that category though ('Come Saturday Morning' from "The Sterile Cuckoo"?).

    I agree, All The Time In The World is a good song, but remember, even Armstrong himself was not at his best when he sang the song, because he's already ill and near his death (it's obvious in the way he sang the song), so I don't expect it to be on the Oscars level, really, let alone winning it.

    And I think John Barry also knew that.

    So even though, John Barry made a good tune in that song, I'll admit, Armstrong's voice in the song was kinda failing a bit.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,597
    To be fair, I’m not sure the academy judge the song on performance, although I expect it shapes their thoughts a bit. I think Armstrong is pretty wonderful on it though.
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