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That's okay, mate! I have something to look forward to but I don't mind waiting for good stuff.
CASINO ROYALE (1967)
featuring Mathis his credentials.
Only four out of the 18 participants did not put this one last, and only one member ranked it outside the bottom 5.
So with 14 last places, the only unofficial pre-title sequence managed to collect a dismal total of 25 points, ending up at the bottom by quite some distance.
Sorry to keep you waiting for so long, to finally give you something you probably already anticipated, but don't worry, the EON entries are coming up soon ;)
But anyways, at least CR '67 was still included in the game, that's the most important of it.
DN and NSNA were omitted because they don' t have a scene before their respective title sequences.
NSNA has one during the title sequence of course, but technically that's still not before it as in 'pre', so the linguist in myself had no choice but to leave it out ;)
Sounds about right. I actually remember watching CR 67 for the first time and being confused by the opening. It’s firstly presumably in media res (so the scene is from the middle of the film when Peter Sellers’ character becomes James Bond) for absolutely no reason, and the whole thing is over so quickly to the point where the ‘joke’ and punchline don’t quite sink in. The only thing I find vaguely funny are the nuns/children walking past in the background.
I know it’s a comedy, but the same rules broadly apply for a PTS as in a regular Bond film - it has to get the viewer interested for the film ahead and the first scene has to land. In this case the joke doesn’t land, and we’re not quite sure what’s going on. It’s not even a scene that feels specifically crafted to evoke the pre title sequences of EON’s Bond films but instead something presumably shot for the middle of the film and was inserted as an opening during post production.
And can I just say, @GoldenGun, how happy I am to see this thread pop up. I'm sure we're in for a lot of fun! :-)
And so far so good, I had this one ranked dead last as well. Having said that, I also have a soft spot for this one, loving it for its comedy while accepting it's nothing like the official Bond series we all know and love. It's got a great cast too.
It was meant to be the pts, according to Dick Clement and Ian LaFrenais, but they put the titles over it because of the films length!
No surprise on CR' 67, I enjoy watching it but thats a lame opening!
As @Mathis1 stated it is pretty lame.
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER (1971)
featuring 007's mudpies.
Only one top 10 spot for DAF I'm afraid, 9th on one occasion. There was also one 12th and one 18th place given to it.
All the rest fell out of the top 20, though in all fairness six participants ranked it 21st and four ranked it 22nd.
A small comfort is also that no-one ranked it at the bottom, with two penultimate places as its worst score.
DAF ended up with 57 points.
And then the negatives:
* Cai - cai - cairo! Yeah, can you actually move your lips, dude?
* The bra over Marie's neck? I'm not a "metoo'er" but not Bond's finest hour.
* Taking out a henchman with a mouse trap? Taking people out with mud? Blofeld just standing by while Bond takes care of his goons? Bond taking out fake Blofeld with a lamp that looks plastic?
* And then the meta issue: this is the man who had your wife killed, Bond. What's with the jokes, the light mood, the lack of hard anger? (I know, for a brief while, OHMSS was almost considered a never-happened.)
The thing is, I believe this could have been a very good PTS, but the end result is just not good.
I don't dislike it, but in the context of what came before, it's much too light-hearted.
I also think it effectively reintroduces Connery in a more lighthearted, but hard boiled way. I always say one of the faults of OHMSS’s PTS is that it tries to introduce Lazenby in a similar way to Connery in DN (ie. Bond in the shadows, the build up to the face reveal etc). The problem is that a) we’re let down when it’s Lazenby and b) it’s not an opening that is able to effectively ‘build up’ Bond’s presence beforehand so I personally feel it falls flat. DAF on the other hand doesn’t have these problems. Connery’s Bond is almost this faceless force of nature, taking out villains and interrogating them in the space of half a minute before his reveal. We get a good mixture of coldness (Bond strangling the girl with her bra strap is cold/cruel, but in-keeping with this version of the character) and the wry humour that defines the cinematic Bond (I don’t care, I love the fact that he carries a mouse trap where his gun should be).
It’s a brisk, but satisfying PTS, albeit with glaring technical faults, but I really do think it marks a creative improvement on OHMSS’s PTS. It feels more indicative of how future Bonds are introduced. In a film I’m not a huge fan of this is one of the stand outs.
But I don't think I would've ranked this lower than FYEO, this PTS was neutral in the sense that it could be looked at two things: whether could be looked as a sequel to OHMSS, especially it coming after the previous one, and one could look at it as a sequel to the events of YOLT (though, Charles Grey is the glaring problem as he was Henderson in his last appearance).
If Bond avenged Tracy in this film, it kinda makes sense because it just came after OHMSS.
But, nevertheless, while still an embarrassing PTS, it never insulted me in the way FYEO did (many years of forgetting Tracy, he decided to visit her grave in 1981 all of a sudden, why? Doesn't makes sense to me).
I'd rather have an embarrassing, nonsense PTS like DAF than an insulting, anger inducing one like FYEO.
But still, it's in the bottom 3, but this PTS is actually one dash ahead of FYEO (which for me the worst PTS in the Franchise).
Indeed.
DAF PTS is admittedly bad, like what I've said, a bottom 3 PTS for me, just ahead of FYEO and CR '67, for me the DAF PTS is still miles ahead of FYEO (it feels like a mockery in all aspects).
OHMSS PTS for me is a great one, I love the mystery in it, combining it with the dramatic direction, and the first one to introduce the main Bond Girl in the PTS (only for that record to be broken by Madeleine Swann in NTTD, urrghh), it's in my Top Ten!
But again, we're all different, it's like Tosca, not for everyone.
Well, for that matter, I'm not a fan of NTTD PTS.
I think the cinematography and fight choreography gives OHMSS a boost. It really is one of the best Bond film in these areas.
But honestly, the opening in itself is a bit baffling. Q’s banging on about radioactive lint which leads to a bad segway into M asking were Bond is. The cut and music cue feel a bit too hard/quick to the Aston Martin after this, and it feels like they’re trying to recapture the aesthetic of Connery’s intro in DN with the character lighting a cigarette before the face reveal. Bond doesn’t really do much beforehand apart from spy on Tracy and rescue her (the latter moment feels a bit awkward to me as it’s all done in wide shots too so you see how contrived it looks) and because Lazenby is, in my opinion, an extraordinarily un-charismatic Bond it feels like a bit of a let down when we get his reveal. Also that last line… legitimately a bad writing choice…. It’s probably the most overrated PTS’s in Bond in my opinion.
DAF mixes that colder, darker side of Bond with some humour, which I think is closer to Brosnan’s reveal in GE and indeed TND. It feels like we’ve more effectively built up Bond’s screen presence/how dangerous he is beforehand in this sense. I will admit it’s not shot as well, but it feels more interesting and engaging to me. But to each their own.
Well,where does it rank for you?
Well, neither the book worked in that matter too.
I've read your complaints regarding the CR '67's use of media resolution, that in some sense, do make me agree there, and there's no other way to create a PTS for that, the book also created some confusions and the unforgivable line of Bond questioning the navels of French women (which I've felt very sexist and racist).
At least, in the film though, Bond was eager to help a person who's committing suicide, and it started an action which created a mystery instead of confusion.
The film wasn't just focused on Bond's build up, it's the focus upon the build up of this girl that he had met, and his interaction with her, it's a build up about the story.
Actually, that scene though would've worked without a background music or score, just quiet, to make things, at least more realistic.
It's not about the Bond actor himself (well, Lazenby wasn't the focus of the film at all, even his name wasn't hugely attached upon the film's marketing), it's the story.
It's the build up to a romance, because there's a mystery, and there's the tension, it's not about the Bond actor himself, that's not the focus.
No, it's not the most overrated PTS, it's actually divisive if you may go out of this forum and looked into the Bond fandoms outside, if anything, it's an underrated PTS, and for me, the most overrated PTS was the NTTD PTS (well, that's already a different discussion).
I don't get the hype and love for the Matera love story of Bond and Madeleine in NTTD PTS, sure the action was well done, but the way it's written, just bland and unoriginal, if anything, that's the most overrated PTS in the Bond Franchise (and don't even get me started how dumb and stupid Bond was in that PTS with him thinking Madeleine betrayed him? And Blofeld who's a prisoner in England manipulating them outside and abroad? Bond dodged a bullet shot at him two times?), It's definitely the most overrated PTS of them all.
Don’t mind how it changes the placement of the novel’s plot. I just find it an ineffective way of introducing Bond and his romance with Tracy (that’s done later into the film). It probably is more divisive outside of Bond fandom though, but I guess that’s what I meant. Think most of it is from that last line (I really do dislike it, brings so much attention to the fact that this is a different actor playing Bond, which does Lazenby no favours).
I think I ranked OHMSS 18. I like the film but I find it a dud of an opening.
Everything else you’ve listed as shortcomings, I find to be high points, including the last quip which never fails to make me smile and segues perfectly into the credits.
But since this is DAF we are talking about, I’ll save further comments regarding its predecessor to when we eventually get to it.
I actually agree with you, @R1s1ngs0n
For me, what they've done is really worth it, because there's no other way they could've start a PTS that's adapting it close to the book.
I do think that last quip is really divisive, some may like it, some may not, but for me, I'm not much bothered by it, I don't mind it, it had no effect on me whatsoever.
What worked for me is all what you've said.
I'm now wondering what's next in this round? Hello, For Your Eyes Only 👋😁
To each their own, everyone’s different and all that. Like I said I much prefer OHMSS to DAF, but I just prefer the opening of the latter.
:)