Quick Big Mi6 Pre-title sequence ranking game

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Comments

  • Posts: 3,984
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yeah, I must admit this one doesn’t do much for me. The jet pack in theory should be a part of a much bigger/more elaborate sequence, but feels a bit underwhelming as it is. Maybe I haven’t watched the film in a while but I’m not entirely sure why Bouvar needs to disguise himself as his widow.

    I think the idea of Bond getting injured during a PTS was done much better in subsequent films.

    Does he get injured in this one?

    I agree that it's a bit underwhelming; somehow there's not much of a hook to this one and a lot of the ideas feel a bit half-baked. Like the JB initials on the coffin- are we meant to think Bond is dead before the film has even started? But they don't even really try to make us think that so I'm not sure why it's there. You're right about it not making sense either- not only is it weird that Bouvar is in disguise, but why is he there at all?
    And the amazing Aston Martin gets the slight indignity of being shown not to start- if I were Aston lending them a car I'd be a bit put out by that! :)

    The jetpack annoys me a bit as well. It's the one cool gadget Bond has in the film, but it's not deployed in a cool way- all he uses it for is in lieu of a staircase or a ladder(!). Maybe if they'd been in a chateau with a moat and locked the place down so 007 would have no way out, then using a jetpack to get over the moat would feel a bit more daring, I think. Also: land it in the back of a moving car :D

    From what I recall he gets whacked with the fire poker in the ribs and it’s implied his stay at Shrublands is partly because of his injuries.

    Interesting, I’d not put that together before, I’ll keep an eye out for that next time!

    I mean, it’s not particularity elaborated on. But you do get to see the nasty bruises and there’s the ‘he didn’t like me at all’ line. Also Moneypenny pretty much tells him he’s off duty so can’t get records to run Lippe.

    That and I’m not sure if there’s any other reason Bond would visit a health clinic conveniently located near a NATO base (except to harass the nurses, and even that comes off as more a ‘fuck it, if I’ve got to be here…’ sort of thing).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,211
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yeah, I must admit this one doesn’t do much for me. The jet pack in theory should be a part of a much bigger/more elaborate sequence, but feels a bit underwhelming as it is. Maybe I haven’t watched the film in a while but I’m not entirely sure why Bouvar needs to disguise himself as his widow.

    I think the idea of Bond getting injured during a PTS was done much better in subsequent films.

    Does he get injured in this one?

    I agree that it's a bit underwhelming; somehow there's not much of a hook to this one and a lot of the ideas feel a bit half-baked. Like the JB initials on the coffin- are we meant to think Bond is dead before the film has even started? But they don't even really try to make us think that so I'm not sure why it's there. You're right about it not making sense either- not only is it weird that Bouvar is in disguise, but why is he there at all?
    And the amazing Aston Martin gets the slight indignity of being shown not to start- if I were Aston lending them a car I'd be a bit put out by that! :)

    The jetpack annoys me a bit as well. It's the one cool gadget Bond has in the film, but it's not deployed in a cool way- all he uses it for is in lieu of a staircase or a ladder(!). Maybe if they'd been in a chateau with a moat and locked the place down so 007 would have no way out, then using a jetpack to get over the moat would feel a bit more daring, I think. Also: land it in the back of a moving car :D

    From what I recall he gets whacked with the fire poker in the ribs and it’s implied his stay at Shrublands is partly because of his injuries.

    Interesting, I’d not put that together before, I’ll keep an eye out for that next time!

    I mean, it’s not particularity elaborated on. But you do get to see the nasty bruises and there’s the ‘he didn’t like me at all’ line. Also Moneypenny pretty much tells him he’s off duty so can’t get records to run Lippe.

    Oh yes, I remember that bit now. Yes it sort of works to connect those up doesn't it! :)
    007HallY wrote: »
    That and I’m not sure if there’s any other reason Bond would visit a health clinic conveniently located near a NATO base (except to harass the nurses, and even that comes off as more a ‘fuck it, if I’ve got to be here…’ sort of thing).

    I don't know if there's supposed to be any thought by M given to the location of the spa; it's probably the only one of the films where Fleming's propensity for coincidence and pure luck made it to the movie version. I mean, why does he even go to chase up Domino as a lead? I get that she's hot, but even 007 puts the potential deaths of millions as a higher priority than getting his leg over occasionally! :D
  • Posts: 3,984
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Yeah, I must admit this one doesn’t do much for me. The jet pack in theory should be a part of a much bigger/more elaborate sequence, but feels a bit underwhelming as it is. Maybe I haven’t watched the film in a while but I’m not entirely sure why Bouvar needs to disguise himself as his widow.

    I think the idea of Bond getting injured during a PTS was done much better in subsequent films.

    Does he get injured in this one?

    I agree that it's a bit underwhelming; somehow there's not much of a hook to this one and a lot of the ideas feel a bit half-baked. Like the JB initials on the coffin- are we meant to think Bond is dead before the film has even started? But they don't even really try to make us think that so I'm not sure why it's there. You're right about it not making sense either- not only is it weird that Bouvar is in disguise, but why is he there at all?
    And the amazing Aston Martin gets the slight indignity of being shown not to start- if I were Aston lending them a car I'd be a bit put out by that! :)

    The jetpack annoys me a bit as well. It's the one cool gadget Bond has in the film, but it's not deployed in a cool way- all he uses it for is in lieu of a staircase or a ladder(!). Maybe if they'd been in a chateau with a moat and locked the place down so 007 would have no way out, then using a jetpack to get over the moat would feel a bit more daring, I think. Also: land it in the back of a moving car :D

    From what I recall he gets whacked with the fire poker in the ribs and it’s implied his stay at Shrublands is partly because of his injuries.

    Interesting, I’d not put that together before, I’ll keep an eye out for that next time!

    I mean, it’s not particularity elaborated on. But you do get to see the nasty bruises and there’s the ‘he didn’t like me at all’ line. Also Moneypenny pretty much tells him he’s off duty so can’t get records to run Lippe.

    Oh yes, I remember that bit now. Yes it sort of works to connect those up doesn't it! :)
    007HallY wrote: »
    That and I’m not sure if there’s any other reason Bond would visit a health clinic conveniently located near a NATO base (except to harass the nurses, and even that comes off as more a ‘fuck it, if I’ve got to be here…’ sort of thing).

    I don't know if there's supposed to be any thought by M given to the location of the spa; it's probably the only one of the films where Fleming's propensity for coincidence and pure luck made it to the movie version. I mean, why does he even go to chase up Domino as a lead? I get that she's hot, but even 007 puts the potential deaths of millions as a higher priority than getting his leg over occasionally! :D

    Haha, yes there’s definitely an element of ‘don’t think too hard’ about it.
  • Posts: 2,161
    18 for me. I was surprised it ended up as low as not did on my list.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,444
    I ranked it as #16. Good fight but the rest doesn't stand out. The jet pack doesn't look as cool as it should (and yes, it doesn't make much sense to use it there) and the DB5 isn't used in a great way: the car looks dirty and why can't the guards move a step to the side where no water can hit them?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,120
    Regarding the jetpack, I think it could have been better positioned somewhere else in the film, for example, closer to the climax, when Bond has to board the Disco while it's making a run for it. The helmet could have been substituted for part of his gear from the underwater battle, making Bond look less uncool.

    I understand that they were looking for really awesome action to open the film with; it's in the PTS' DNA to have a big spectacle going on. The problem with the jetpack now, apart from all the logistics of getting the bloody thing all the way up there before the car that left the funeral sooner than Bond arrived at the chateau, is that it doesn't look half as cool as the poster promises. Also, the thug shooting without aiming -- it's a surprise he didn't shoot himself -- and the AM failing to make a speedy escape and being forced to blow half a swimming pool of water at the armed thugs, are things that could have been handled better.

    One thing I've always noticed about films like TB, YOLT, and DAF is that when an awesome stunt (and the jetpack is, in itself, awesome!) was pulled off, everything surrounding the stunt didn't seem too big of a concern anymore. I don't mean to disparage any of the amazing stunt work in the Bonds, let me be clear on that. It's just that while some people's jaws may have been on the floor from the jetpack stunt, that, alone, isn't enough to make the PTS great. Attention should still be paid to completing this micro-adventure in a satisfying manner, both in terms of action and the story it's trying to tell. I get no sense of danger or menace from the chateau guards, and if the jetpack is supposed to make me pump my fists, then don't blow the moment by asking me to laugh at goons who are stopped by impossible water cannons.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,444
    I wonder which one is next. My guess would be FRWL.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,120
    I wonder which one is next. My guess would be FRWL.
    ece9c464-fede-4ec6-b2cd-44bec473542b_text.gif
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    Probably, Quantum Of Solace or Licence To Kill, either of those two.....
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,919
    QoS next would be a real crime.
  • Posts: 7,381
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    QoS next would be a real crime.

    Agree totally. One of the best for me!
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,444
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Probably, Quantum Of Solace or Licence To Kill, either of those two.....

    LTK would be my other guess.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,076
    Happy to see the discussions go on, despite the lack of a new reveal :)

    Anyway, we're back again with our number 16:

    SPECTRE (2015)
    featuring a baddie whose family name is mispronounced the entire movie.

    Spectre-banner.jpg

    Bond's Dias de Los Muertos adventure received one silver medal, making SP the lowest ranked entry with a top 3 finish.

    Another 4th place and five more top 10's were also noted.

    Five other members, however, rated it in the bottom 5. Its lowest score was 23rd, which it received on three occasions.

    An entry with both fans and detractors, SP obtained a total of 96 points.
  • Posts: 12,441
    I'm one of the ones who really loved SP's PTS. Though I consider the film collectively one of the series' weakest, the opening is still super awesome to me.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,106
    On par with my own ranking. 16th.
    It’s certainly not bad, and the helicopter stunts are amazing. The cgi and rear projection are quite noticeable at times though.
    It’s well crafted, but other pts have done it better.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,787
    #4 for me, one of the best PTS in there, yes, folks, I'm the one whom @GoldenGun mentioned that puts it in the 4th place.

    It's almost like a mini film in itself with building up the mystery, I think it could also worked for an introduction of the new Bond actor without knowing where Bond is, in all of the people wearing mask in the festival and we, audiences need to guess out where was he.

    It's a very classic entrance to an otherwise disappointing, kinda meh film, and Craig had chemistry with Stephanie Sigman (if I remember her name correctly), it's a great opening, and there's the action.

    It's not without its flaws too, the action while greatly choreographed, was left unnoticed by the people who were still continuing in the festival despite the danger and risk of that helicopter fight, lacking in a bit of realism, perhaps, when in real situation, they should all start a commotion and run away, perhaps, probably in the crumbling buildings too before that (when the apartment was bombed), they should all got noticed by it and started running out of that place, and there's that couch gag (to which felt out of place).

    But still a great one, maybe it would've changed a bit in my rankings, it's been a while since I've posted my official rankings and moods do changed and as we notices several flaws upon rewatching, so, it might no longer be in my Top 4 now, but still great.
  • Posts: 7,381
    This is disappointing. I had SP in my top 10. I love the spectacle of it, the accompanying music too and the helicopter action is superb. The opening tracking shot is one of the coolest.
    It could have been trimmed by a couple of minutes and we could have done without 'The dead are alive' nonsense ( How great it would have been to see the gunbarrel opening up onto the parade!) Oh well, I guess its down to SP being so unpopular around here!
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,120
    #11 for me. It’s a classic.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,120
    It's a well-made PTS, IMO. Craig, despite the injury, moves well in the looks-like-a-one-take scene. I like the crowded procession and the helicopter fight. I also love how the PTS neatly segues into the main titles.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited November 2023 Posts: 7,076
    Came in 6th for me. Big fan of this PTS, also a big fan of the film that follows. Rather disappointed to see it ending so low.

    While I understand the film's unpopularity due to Fostergate, I don't quite get what's wrong with the PTS on its own.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2023 Posts: 16,211
    I think this is a really great PTS, not sure why it's so low. If I had to criticise it I'd say it's missing a big climax to the helicopter part somehow. There's some amazing stuntwork here and I'm not knocking that at all, but it feels like it needs just one more 'big thing' to end on- it's slighty without a hook.
    But the leadup to it is absolutely great, it's visually pretty stunning with the parade, the superb one-shot thing which is one of the most stylish things in a Bond ever, and I love the sofa gag so much. Craig's best gunbarrel for my money, and Bond in a skeleton mask feels curiously Flemingy as well. The music's great too- who doesn't love the Bond theme kicking in as he saunters across the rooftops?
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 3,984
    The concept for this PTS is great (as far as I’m aware the Day of the Dead parade was something invented for the film and it gives the whole thing this otherworldly atmosphere with everyone in costume). I also think Craig himself puts in such a confident performance that even just him walking draws you in.

    I have some minor issues with it. I personally don’t like the ‘the dead are alive’ title card as it feels a bit on the nose. The long take at the beginning is impressive, but I generally think long takes need to maintain some sort of tension (ie. Touch of Evil with the bomb in the car, the car chase in Children of Men etc.) This just feels a bit too style over substance. The colour scheme is also a bit odd and yellowish, slightly lacking in good old Bondian vibrancy.

    That said I’m a fan of this one and think it’s one of the highlights of SP.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,919
    One of the rare times it doesn't rank dead last for me but still comes in at 23rd. Overrated tracking shot, mediocre green screen and CGI usage, stilted action, a complete waste of a Bond girl. The PTS isn't the worst the film has to offer but it certainly isn't as good as I thought "Day of the Dead parade PTS in Mexico City" would've been when I first heard about it. The score here is alright and the helicopter stuntwork is very impressive, but that's about it for me.
  • Posts: 2,161
    23 for me as well ( @Creasy47 and I are matching up a lot). It works on paper, but form the start it felt off to me. I do not like the way Craig played it, and the color palette throws me.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,422
    I think it was my 16th...

    It has all the elements, for me, to make a great PTS, but it's not (IMO, not trying to be contrarian to others), but there is something I feel off about it. Perhaps the pacing? That although there is this "one-shot" trick, and it seems like everything is moving forward, it still feel lumbering to me.

    When I break it up into little chunks, I can't but help but admit that I love the idea of the parade, LOVE Bond in a skeleton mask and costume, love the quick change in the room, and love the idea of him walking across the rooftops; I'm all in on him on an "assignment" to kill Sciarra, and the fight in a contained space like a helicopter is music to my ears.

    But as a whole, it just doesn't "click" for me. I don't know why......
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2023 Posts: 40,919
    Birdleson wrote: »
    23 for me as well ( @Creasy47 and I are matching up a lot). It works on paper, but form the start it felt off to me. I do not like the way Craig played it, and the color palette throws me.

    We are! And yes, failed to mention the color palette too. The cinematography as a whole in the film is very off-putting to me, and I'll personally never understand those who champion it as one of the best looking installments of the series.

    @peter, I saw a couple reviews right before the film released in the States that seemed to suggest it was one of the better tracking shots they ever saw, which had me very excited, but not only is it not a true tracking shot (not that I have an issue with sly cutting and editing if it's an impressive enough sequence), but it's just Bond walking about and nothing more. Doesn't impress me.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,422
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    23 for me as well ( @Creasy47 and I are matching up a lot). It works on paper, but form the start it felt off to me. I do not like the way Craig played it, and the color palette throws me.

    We are! And yes, failed to mention the color palette too. The cinematography as a whole in the film is very off-putting to me, and I'll personally never understand those who champion it as one of the best looking installments of the series.

    @peter, I saw a couple reviews right before the film released in the States that seemed to suggest it was one of the better tracking shots they ever saw, which had me very excited, but not only is it not a true tracking shot (not that I have an issue with sly cutting and editing if it's an impressive enough sequence), but it's just Bond walking about and nothing more. Doesn't impress me.

    I may throw in the film tonight just to watch the PTS , but yes, I can’t put my finger on why it doesn’t click for me… There’s an element missing, and I wondered about the pacing… before the assassination scene and chase, you’re right, @Creasy47 , it’s just Bond walking.

    Where’s the urgency?

    The PTS is similar to a short film, and there’s nothing longer than poorly made short films! The same may apply here. We don’t have context as to why 007 is in the middle of this parade… so bring us up to speed faster, or with more exciting visual cues than Bond strolling along in the middle of a parade…..

    Hmm, I don’t know…

    I’ll watch tonight and see what it tells me then, 😂
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,919
    There's definitely a lot of unnecessary glamor and flair in the PTS. It's all for unnecessary show. Bond could've started out set up on the rooftop with his rifle since he clearly knew where the meeting location was from the start.

    I wish you luck. I hate to admit it but I'm dreading revisiting it during my Bondathon this month. It's the only time I rewatch it.
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 3,984
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    23 for me as well ( @Creasy47 and I are matching up a lot). It works on paper, but form the start it felt off to me. I do not like the way Craig played it, and the color palette throws me.

    We are! And yes, failed to mention the color palette too. The cinematography as a whole in the film is very off-putting to me, and I'll personally never understand those who champion it as one of the best looking installments of the series.

    @peter, I saw a couple reviews right before the film released in the States that seemed to suggest it was one of the better tracking shots they ever saw, which had me very excited, but not only is it not a true tracking shot (not that I have an issue with sly cutting and editing if it's an impressive enough sequence), but it's just Bond walking about and nothing more. Doesn't impress me.

    Yeah, the cinematography is a bit odd in SP. I think part of it is Hoytema’s style (he’s very accomplished, although there’s always a drabness to his cinematography that I don’t think Bond should have) and another part of it is them leaning into it visually. That and I suspect they wanted to recreate the magic of SF’s cinematography but went about it in the wrong way (I don’t think Deakins would have been a fan of the long take). Bit too much style not enough substance.

    I wouldn’t say it’s as ugly as something like TWINE, and in itself it’s well crafted, just not quite right.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,422
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    There's definitely a lot of unnecessary glamor and flair in the PTS. It's all for unnecessary show. Bond could've started out set up on the rooftop with his rifle since he clearly knew where the meeting location was from the start.

    I wish you luck. I hate to admit it but I'm dreading revisiting it during my Bondathon this month. It's the only time I rewatch it.

    You’re right, after the gun barrel, it could have opened up with Bond setting up the assassination on the rooftop; below is the parade….

    Things go awry.

    Chase in the streets, and so on….

    You’ve plopped us right into the action.

    In all fairness to a production that seemingly had its rear end whooped and no time left before going to cameras, I understand they had to rewrite the scene because of Craig’s injury. I haven’t read the script in ages, so I don’t remember what the original action beats were….
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