"You missed Mister Bond!"..."Did I?"...The Missed Opportunities of Never Say Never Again

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,340
    mtm wrote: »
    I think the need for it was that he wasn't very good at doing jokes so they got a professional experienced actor in to handle that section of the film.

    The voice change made the scene sillier. There aren't many jokes.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    One thinks it reflects on their lack of confidence in the voice that Lazenby had done as opposed to anything that was to add comedy. In fact the dialogue is the comedy, not the voice.

    If Connery had returned to the role, or they had a more experienced actor I doubt the Bray scenes would have been dubbed. I overlook it of course but there was a missed opportunity to allow Lazenby the chance to do the voice his own.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    thedove wrote: »
    One thinks it reflects on their lack of confidence in the voice that Lazenby had done as opposed to anything that was to add comedy. In fact the dialogue is the comedy, not the voice.

    Yes, that's my point: Lazenby couldn't play comedy dialogue well (he couldn't play dialogue well so didn't have much chance at comedy!). There is lots of light comedy in those scenes and requires to be played with a deft touch: something Connery or Moore would have had no trouble with.
    thedove wrote: »
    If Connery had returned to the role, or they had a more experienced actor I doubt the Bray scenes would have been dubbed.

    Exactly.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,789
    For me, my solid opinion, but Savalas is miscast too, as much as I liked his voice as Blofeld and he's physical against Bond, I think for a man who's trying to be a European Count, he's seemed a wrong choice, maybe Jan Werich could've pull the role better?

    Savalas could've worked in something like YOLT (Pleasance wasn't menacing enough and more lame for Blofeld, Savalas could've done the role better in that film especially with his voice), but here in OHMSS, he's supposed to be a somewhat a sophisticated and noble trying to make himself an aristocrat, like what I've said later, his accent contradicted this, he sounded very American, when he's not trying or pretending to have a European accent, making it not worth buying of his claim (to be a count).

    And I actually don't get him romancing Tracy in the third act, is he in love with her when he kidnapped her? I think it's unnecessary, it made him a bit flimsy, just out of place.

    But still, out of all Blofelds, he's the best one so far, even in the actors department, we haven't had a proper Blofeld in these years.

    It's my same complaint as with Christopher Walken as Max Zorin, he comes off as too comical or over the top and again the American accent for a character who's supposed to be a German, for me, I think that character was supposed to be a Red Grant 2.0, somewhat menacing, but maniacal and very foreign in terms of presence, if you've read Permission To Die comics (Widziadlo?), I think the villain is very close to what Max Zorin should've been, but more on that later when we talked AVTAK.
  • Posts: 4,139
    Walken and Savalas are similar in the sense that both nail the menace and cold humour of their characters, but don’t quite have that nondescript ‘continental’ (heck, let’s even say foreign or European) quality that Blofeld, Zorin and many of Fleming’s villains are meant to possess. It’s probably simply because they’re Americans. I can’t imagine either knowing several languages and M’s claim that Zorin has ‘no accent’ is laughable, but an indication of how the character was written.

    That said I think it’s for the best we have them. Both are distinct, menacing, and wonderfully colourful actors. That’s the priority with a Bond villain. I’m not sure if an alternative Blofeld in OHMSS played by, say, Max Von Sydow would have been better at all (a very great character actor, but I don’t think he could have matched Savalas at all, and he even played a rather dull version of Blofeld in NSNA).

    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Yeah I think Savalas is the best Blofeld; I don't mind the accent thing, and in some ways it kind of helps the idea that he's striving to be a European Count.
  • Posts: 1,340
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



    Out of all the considered choices at that time, Lazenby is the best.

    Another problem with Blofeld too, yeah, I think Savalas' Blofeld is the best version that we have so far, but I think him romancing Tracy is a bit out of character, he kidnapped Tracy, then he flirted with her, I think it just got a bit corny, would've been better without that.

    Like that romancing thing came out of nowhere, like Blofeld was being this romantic guy promising Tracy everything she wanted, like what's that? It makes Blofeld a bit weak for me.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    007HallY wrote: »
    Walken and Savalas are similar in the sense that both nail the menace and cold humour of their characters, but don’t quite have that nondescript ‘continental’ (heck, let’s even say foreign or European) quality that Blofeld, Zorin and many of Fleming’s villains are meant to possess. It’s probably simply because they’re Americans. I can’t imagine either knowing several languages and M’s claim that Zorin has ‘no accent’ is laughable, but an indication of how the character was written.

    That said I think it’s for the best we have them. Both are distinct, menacing, and wonderfully colourful actors. That’s the priority with a Bond villain. I’m not sure if an alternative Blofeld in OHMSS played by, say, Max Von Sydow would have been better at all (a very great character actor, but I don’t think he could have matched Savalas at all, and he even played a rather dull version of Blofeld in NSNA).

    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Ironically, when Richard Maibaum was first writing OHMSS, he had written Blofeld with Max Von Sydow in mind. Of course, when the things that Telly did that you mentioned were noticed by Dick the Dictator, he criticized him. For not doing Maibaum’s script his way. Sometimes, I think if it upset Richard Maibaum, and his ego, it’s not necessarily a missed opportunity.
  • Posts: 4,139
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



    See, I’d argue Lazenby’s natural charisma never made it onscreen. It’s a shame as I think the producers assumed that it’d be a Connery situation in which that quality (or indeed his arrogance) would translate into his Bond. In reality you need some experience in front of the camera to hone that.

    It does seem slim pickings in terms of who was considered. Not sure if John Gavin would have fared much better than Lazenby.
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Walken and Savalas are similar in the sense that both nail the menace and cold humour of their characters, but don’t quite have that nondescript ‘continental’ (heck, let’s even say foreign or European) quality that Blofeld, Zorin and many of Fleming’s villains are meant to possess. It’s probably simply because they’re Americans. I can’t imagine either knowing several languages and M’s claim that Zorin has ‘no accent’ is laughable, but an indication of how the character was written.

    That said I think it’s for the best we have them. Both are distinct, menacing, and wonderfully colourful actors. That’s the priority with a Bond villain. I’m not sure if an alternative Blofeld in OHMSS played by, say, Max Von Sydow would have been better at all (a very great character actor, but I don’t think he could have matched Savalas at all, and he even played a rather dull version of Blofeld in NSNA).

    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Ironically, when Richard Maibaum was first writing OHMSS, he had written Blofeld with Max Von Sydow in mind. Of course, when the things that Telly did that you mentioned were noticed by Dick the Dictator, he criticized him. For not doing Maibaum’s script his way. Sometimes, I think if it upset Richard Maibaum, and his ego, it’s not necessarily a missed opportunity.

    Von Sydow as Blofeld makes sense on paper, but I’m not sure if it would have worked. Again, he’s such a non-presence in NSNA and I suspect he wasn’t an actor who necessarily would have had fun playing a Bond villain. Savalas just had a natural, larger than life quality to him that it makes sense he’s the baddie.

    It’s one of those decisions a director/casting director has to make - do you adhere to that refined, continental quality or do you pick an actor who has that menace/charisma and instead upholds that side of their characters? I think Savalas and Walken gave memorable and very good performances, and Bond villains shouldn’t be dull, so I think the right decisions were made.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



    See, I’d argue Lazenby’s natural charisma never made it onscreen. It’s a shame as I think the producers assumed that it’d be a Connery situation in which that quality (or indeed his arrogance) would translate into his Bond. In reality you need some experience in front of the camera to hone that.

    It does seem slim pickings in terms of who was considered. Not sure if John Gavin would have fared much better than Lazenby.
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Walken and Savalas are similar in the sense that both nail the menace and cold humour of their characters, but don’t quite have that nondescript ‘continental’ (heck, let’s even say foreign or European) quality that Blofeld, Zorin and many of Fleming’s villains are meant to possess. It’s probably simply because they’re Americans. I can’t imagine either knowing several languages and M’s claim that Zorin has ‘no accent’ is laughable, but an indication of how the character was written.

    That said I think it’s for the best we have them. Both are distinct, menacing, and wonderfully colourful actors. That’s the priority with a Bond villain. I’m not sure if an alternative Blofeld in OHMSS played by, say, Max Von Sydow would have been better at all (a very great character actor, but I don’t think he could have matched Savalas at all, and he even played a rather dull version of Blofeld in NSNA).

    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Ironically, when Richard Maibaum was first writing OHMSS, he had written Blofeld with Max Von Sydow in mind. Of course, when the things that Telly did that you mentioned were noticed by Dick the Dictator, he criticized him. For not doing Maibaum’s script his way. Sometimes, I think if it upset Richard Maibaum, and his ego, it’s not necessarily a missed opportunity.

    Von Sydow as Blofeld makes sense on paper, but I’m not sure if it would have worked. Again, he’s such a non-presence in NSNA and I suspect he wasn’t an actor who necessarily would have had fun playing a Bond villain. Savalas just had a natural, larger than life quality to him that it makes sense he’s the baddie.

    It’s one of those decisions a director/casting director has to make - do you adhere to that refined, continental quality or do you pick an actor who has that menace/charisma and instead upholds that side of their characters? I think Savalas and Walken gave memorable and very good performances, and Bond villains shouldn’t be dull, so I think the right decisions were made.

    Yes, it is more of a director’s choice than a writer’s choice, that usually works better. I’m more than grateful that Savalas and Walken were Bond villains. They certainly weren’t dull. As usual, Richard Maibaum liked to think that he knew all when it came to James Bond.
  • Posts: 1,340
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



    See, I’d argue Lazenby’s natural charisma never made it onscreen. It’s a shame as I think the producers assumed that it’d be a Connery situation in which that quality (or indeed his arrogance) would translate into his Bond. In reality you need some experience in front of the camera to hone that.

    It does seem slim pickings in terms of who was considered. Not sure if John Gavin would have fared much better than Lazenby.

    Gavin was an actor. I think he was ok for just one movie like OHMSS. A better placeholder than Lazenby.

    I like Lazenby. I think he had charisma on screen but Bond talks a lot in this movie and you need a real actor.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,789
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



    See, I’d argue Lazenby’s natural charisma never made it onscreen. It’s a shame as I think the producers assumed that it’d be a Connery situation in which that quality (or indeed his arrogance) would translate into his Bond. In reality you need some experience in front of the camera to hone that.

    It does seem slim pickings in terms of who was considered. Not sure if John Gavin would have fared much better than Lazenby.

    Gavin was an actor. I think he was ok for just one movie like OHMSS. A better placeholder than Lazenby.

    I like Lazenby. I think he had charisma on screen but Bond talks a lot in this movie and you need a real actor.

    I'd rather have Lazenby than an American, so no, and he's not in the running at the time, he's considered in DAF, and if you look into the ones whose considered, Lazenby is clearly the best choice, and again, he's an American, an American should not and can't play Bond.

    And I don't remember him talking a lot in this film, though.

    That's said, we couldn't advance into the other topics if we keep focusing on here.

    Anyway most of my missed opportunities within this film were all about the villains side, especially Blofeld romancing and flirting of Tracy in Piz Gloria (was Blofeld became in love with her?), Blofeld flirting with Tracy was like Safin being in love with Madeleine for such a shallow and silly reason that's not necessary and lessened the effectivity of a villain, like I don't see Blofeld's intention of why he needs to please Tracy like he did, I just don't understand, it came out of nowhere, I liked the concept of holding her hostage, but to have Blofeld pleasing Tracy and almost romancing her is just crossing the line, because I don't get his intention in that, he did that because:
    A. ) To make a move against Bond?
    B.) Because he liked to take Tracy as his partner? Like Irma Bunt?
    C.) Because he fell in love with her?

    I just don't understand that scene, and there's Blofeld's line: "I can make you into a Countess", so what's his intention with Tracy? It lessened his menace because Tracy even outwitted him and even manipulated him, Tracy speaking poetry is a delight though (kudos to Rigg for doing that), but again, that concept is just unnecessary.

    * Savalas' accent (which is minor, I guess), and more nitpickery on my side (like with Walken's Max Zorin).

    * And yes, the James Bond theme blaring at the end considering the tragic scene (and also the James Bond theme playing in Tracy's fight scene against Gunther), but there's nothing much aside from those.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2023 Posts: 6,297
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



    See, I’d argue Lazenby’s natural charisma never made it onscreen. It’s a shame as I think the producers assumed that it’d be a Connery situation in which that quality (or indeed his arrogance) would translate into his Bond. In reality you need some experience in front of the camera to hone that.

    It does seem slim pickings in terms of who was considered. Not sure if John Gavin would have fared much better than Lazenby.

    Gavin was an actor. I think he was ok for just one movie like OHMSS. A better placeholder than Lazenby.

    I like Lazenby. I think he had charisma on screen but Bond talks a lot in this movie and you need a real actor.

    Have you seen Gavin act? He's...terrible.

    Diana Rigg's Tracy was so amazing that she believably charmed/tricked Blofeld! Her charisma and strength lend even more credence as to why Bond would marry her, of all women. Not to mention her perfect look when she realizes her father is coming to rescue her...and the Barry music.

    This is one of the best scenes in the movie.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,789
    echo wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    As for missed opportunities, I’m not sure. I think it’s a film with flaws but not missed opportunities as such (even an alternative Bond is a bit questionable as from what I can read the front runners weren’t heavy hitters like Moore but rather non-descript actors arguably all lacking in star quality as much as Lazenby). I suppose not reprising We Have All The Time in The World over the credits? Something about the Bond theme blaring at the end is always a bit strange.

    Someone like John Gavin was better than Lazenby.

    Any Rock Hudson-Sean Connery clone was better choice.

    Lazenby had charisma like a rock star but It's not enough.



    See, I’d argue Lazenby’s natural charisma never made it onscreen. It’s a shame as I think the producers assumed that it’d be a Connery situation in which that quality (or indeed his arrogance) would translate into his Bond. In reality you need some experience in front of the camera to hone that.

    It does seem slim pickings in terms of who was considered. Not sure if John Gavin would have fared much better than Lazenby.

    Gavin was an actor. I think he was ok for just one movie like OHMSS. A better placeholder than Lazenby.

    I like Lazenby. I think he had charisma on screen but Bond talks a lot in this movie and you need a real actor.

    Have you seen Gavin act? He's...terrible.

    Diana Rigg's Tracy was so amazing that she believably charmed/tricked Blofeld! Her charisma and strength lend even more credence as to why Bond would marry her, of all women. Not to mention her perfect look when she realizes her father is coming to rescue her...and the Barry music.

    This is one of the best scenes in the movie.

    I agree, Gavin's also wooden and he didn't have charisma or presence, and again, he's American, so a big no for that.

    I agree regarding Tracy's charm and she's great in those scenes, I think Tracy is a perfect Bond girl, cut above the rest (yes, including Vesper), yes, she's the only one for Bond, I see it, the perfect girl for her, or I will say it, woman, she's a woman, very much ahead of her time, people may think of older Bond Girls being eye candies (even exaggerating that it's only until the Craig Era that they became more empowered), I disagree and Tracy is a proof of that, maybe Pussy Galore too.

    I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you've said.

    But my problem there is Blofeld though, like he easily gave in, thus lessening his threat and menace (this reminds me of Safin and his obsession with Madeleine in NTTD), which have no clear intention of motivation, maybe had it been more clarified about Blofeld's intention regarding Tracy, maybe would've a bit better, or maybe Tracy tried to charm him but he never gave in, it's a part of his villainy, and also added to the fact that he didn't know Tracy that well to easily gave up on her), he didn't even know that he's already a countess, nor he didn't know her name).
  • Posts: 15,117
    The greatest Blofeld that never was, especially for OHMSS, was Karol Wojtyla: talented actor, Polish and apparently capable skier in his own right. He would have been perfect for the role. Sadly he became a priest instead of pursuing an acting career.

    I too am no fan of Blofeld wanting to seduce Tracy. It's the one thing I genuinely dislike about OHMSS. He comes off as a vain old fool.

    Oh and another missed opportunity related to OHMSS, albeit not a flaw of the movie itself: not having Irma Bunt get her comeuppance eventually. I think they could have reintroduced her in the pre CR continuity even with the ban on Blofeld/Spectre. Her presence as an henchwoman could have opened a lot of possibilities.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    An over-arching missed opportunity was not casting a consistent actor in the role of Blofeld. The producers seemed to highlight certain aspects of the character in the films and then cast the appropriate actor. This results in an uneven character arc and makes it feel that Bond is always battling a different Blofeld.

    We go from a small figure in YOLT, bulking figure in OHMSS and then a rather campy figure in DAF. While the Blofeld of the novels seemed to be a chameleon you were always under the understanding that it was the same man.

    That never happened in the series. Even in the Craig era the Blofeld character was rushed and not fully developed other than creating a personal tie to Bond.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2023 Posts: 6,297
    Regarding the recasting of Blofeld, I think it was because Cubby could be cheap with actors.

    Savalas would have worked in DAF. And it might have spared us the (unnecessary, to my mind) return of the scar with Waltz.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    The deleted rooftop chase would have made the film even more epic. I'm still gutted the clip can't be found.
  • Posts: 1,340
    echo wrote: »
    Regarding the recasting of Blofeld, I think it was because Cubby could be cheap with actors.

    Savalas would have worked in DAF. And it might have spared us the (unnecessary, to my mind) return of the scar with Waltz.

    Savalas in DAF? Hell, no.
    It's Connery's comeback.
  • Posts: 15,117
    thedove wrote: »
    An over-arching missed opportunity was not casting a consistent actor in the role of Blofeld. The producers seemed to highlight certain aspects of the character in the films and then cast the appropriate actor. This results in an uneven character arc and makes it feel that Bond is always battling a different Blofeld.

    We go from a small figure in YOLT, bulking figure in OHMSS and then a rather campy figure in DAF. While the Blofeld of the novels seemed to be a chameleon you were always under the understanding that it was the same man.

    That never happened in the series. Even in the Craig era the Blofeld character was rushed and not fully developed other than creating a personal tie to Bond.

    To be fair, in the early Bond movies they were probably not thinking of Blofeld as an overarching villain. Blofeld was more like a presence created by patchwork: a dark voice, a hand stroking a cat, etc. It was hard to make a casting that was going to live up to it. Christopher Lee could have done it, perhaps?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited December 2023 Posts: 5,426
    Good stuff about OHMSS, I am surprised how much dialogue and thoughtful posts there were about this movie.

    Okay time to move on to a film that has just been referenced, the wonderfully campy DAF!

    DAF-Poster-Worked-by-DH.jpg

    I feel the need to say that this isn't the place for us to rip the film apart, but rather a chance to discuss the missed opportunities within the film.

    Was there a character that deserved more screen time, a plot point not explored, maybe a casting choice or even a directors choices within the movie. There are some obvious ones that are mentioned with this movie, but when you step back and think about it, are there other missed opportunities with this film.

    Some have said this film was the template that the Moore era would follow. Less serious spy movie, more spy comedic caper.

    This film went through some revisions. Goldfinger's brother was the main baddie at one point, Blofeld was killed at the end of the film in one draft. The climax was set to be at Lake Mead, and in some drafts Irma Bunt was dealt with in the PTS instead of Blofeld.


    What are the missed opportunities of DAF?
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,516
    Let movie also take place in Antwerpen Belgium. Music is a big step back. Audio or video commentary on the delete scenes. But there cleary whant to make another Goldfinger and Yolt. Fact Sean humor in this movie is good (not so good as in Yolt), locations are better then in Goldfinger.
  • Posts: 5,993
    One missed opportunity was Tiffany Case, who started as an intelligent and capable woman, and ended up a simpleton, second only to Mary Goodnight in her uselessness. I'm starting to believe Tom Mankiewicz didn't like women very much.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited December 2023 Posts: 3,789
    Simple, the main missed opportunity of this film is not acknowledging the events of the previous film, or at least implying that Bond was avenging against Blofeld.
    Would've been better if Bond fought Blofeld in a more brutal way.

    And it's also a bit daft, since the Producers tried so much to imply that Bond is the same guy all throughout, so explaining the actor change might contradict their perspective, so I think showing Bond at least acknowledging Tracy would not leading to people thinking about the continuity or the Codename Theory (which CR'67 introduced).

    It also didn't makes sense that it took 4 more other films before they truly acknowledge the events of OHMSS in a more obvious and explicit way, when they could've made it here earlier, just disappointing.

    Like telling in 1981 that "hey, this is still the same guy, oh, remember his tragic wife, oh, and let's use the Blofeld from that same film so we could remind the people of the film", but in 1971, they tried to pretend that this Bond was different from the previous Bond.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    Gerard wrote: »
    One missed opportunity was Tiffany Case, who started as an intelligent and capable woman, and ended up a simpleton, second only to Mary Goodnight in her uselessness. I'm starting to believe Tom Mankiewicz didn't like women very much.

    According to his autobiography, Tom Mankiewicz had A LOT of affairs. Particularly on the Bond movies.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    Sammy Davis Jr. cameo:

    53372381943_c6eb6b2833_o.png

    At least his image made it into the film.

    53372511939_70b13b0b12_o.png
    53372511934_aef87297ce_o.png
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Gerard wrote: »
    One missed opportunity was Tiffany Case, who started as an intelligent and capable woman, and ended up a simpleton, second only to Mary Goodnight in her uselessness. I'm starting to believe Tom Mankiewicz didn't like women very much.

    According to his autobiography, Tom Mankiewicz had A LOT of affairs. Particularly on the Bond movies.

    I'm starting to think that Purvis and Wade sometimes messing up with women:
    Think of Christmas Jones, Strawberry Fields, and the most obvious Severine, and even Lucia Sciarra.
    Not always, but you know, it's there, sometimes 😅.....
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 1,340
    Gerard wrote: »
    One missed opportunity was Tiffany Case, who started as an intelligent and capable woman, and ended up a simpleton, second only to Mary Goodnight in her uselessness. I'm starting to believe Tom Mankiewicz didn't like women very much.

    Rosie Carver was more stupid.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    Gerard wrote: »
    One missed opportunity was Tiffany Case, who started as an intelligent and capable woman, and ended up a simpleton, second only to Mary Goodnight in her uselessness. I'm starting to believe Tom Mankiewicz didn't like women very much.

    Yes I agree with this. I love the character in Holland and even the start of Las Vegas. Right after the moon buggy scene her character seems to change from this street smart woman in a man's world, to a damsel in distress. It is a shame as she is unlike any other Bond girl to this point and I believe the first American leading lady.
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