What is one Bond film generally not well-regarded but you genuinely can't understand why?

24

Comments

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2023 Posts: 8,216
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I always wonder: does that fosterbrother twist, that slide whistle sound or that clown disguise really erase everything else that’s great in that particular film?

    I would say they definitely hinder the overall film but the biggest crime overall is how flat and dull the films are in general. It's why something like OP, with the Tarzan yell and the clown stuff, doesn't fall as low as either TMWTGG or SP. It's got great energy and vibrancy that constantly draws me in.

    The same could be said for MR, which is not a favourite of mine either but it's so self-aware of its own nonsense that I can't help but get swept up in it.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited December 2023 Posts: 1,031
    SP and TB are good picks for this I think.
    Some have them in the bottom 5 (or lower), which I think is totally unjustified. At worst, they are pretty mid-tier as they feature Bond following the bread crumbs from one place to the next, doing very Bondian things, and looking cool while doing it. These are what I'd consider Bond "hangout" films. They're a vibe.

    I'm tempted to put QOS as it ranks very highly for me, but can easily understand why many are not fans.

    Octopussy might be my overall pick for this though! It's got a killer Cold War plot, beautiful/exotic locations, brisk pacing, some of the most colorful and memorable villains, great Barry score, and excellent stunt work / action. Above all, it feels in many ways like a return to form after the full on camp / over the top plots of the 1970's followed by the abrupt course correction of FYEO. It really feels balanced between the serious and the silly in way we hadn't seen since OHMSS, and I just can't understand why some would let a few misplaced gags that last for mere seconds ruin the rest of the film. Has really grown on me over the years.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    Octopusssssy....Octopussssy...

    Clearly the answer.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 1,340
    SP and TB are good picks for this I think.
    Some have them in the bottom 5 (or lower), which I think is totally unjustified. At worst, they are pretty mid-tier as they feature Bond following the bread crumbs from one place to the next, doing very Bondian things, and looking cool while doing it. These are what I'd consider Bond "hangout" films. They're a vibe.

    I'm tempted to put QOS as it ranks very highly for me, but can easily understand why many are not fans.

    Octopussy might be my overall pick for this though! It's got a killer Cold War plot, beautiful/exotic locations, brisk pacing, some of the most colorful and memorable villains, great Barry score, and excellent stunt work / action. Above all, it feels in many ways like a return to form after the full on camp / over the top plots of the 1970's followed by the abrupt course correction of FYEO. It really feels balanced between the serious and the silly in way we hadn't seen since OHMSS, and I just can't understand why some would let a few misplaced gags that last for mere seconds ruin the rest of the film. Has really grown on me over the years.

    Balanced? No, It's over the top. It's Moonraker without spaceships, It's Roger Moore's DAF.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,118
    I’d like to add two other films to the discussion; NSNA and TWINE.

    Always felt that both were, not perfect of course, but excellent nonetheless.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 17,753
    Have to agree with @peter regarding OP/FYEO. There is so much to love about both films. Obviously, it's easy to understand the criticism about certain elements and scenes, but overall I think both films are great fun.
  • GoldenGun wrote: »
    I’d like to add two other films to the discussion; NSNA and TWINE.

    Always felt that both were, not perfect of course, but excellent nonetheless.

    I definitively agree about both.

    I always thought NSNA was judged more harshly because it was not produced by Eon. Connery is quite good in it, better than in DAF. Regarding TWINE, the movie really grew on me because of its geopolitical backdrop that I find pretty unique. Two very enjoyable instalments, far more memorable in my opinion than others.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,016
    TND. Everything about it is 100% Bondian...yet, some fans aren't entirely sold.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    I don't share the impression that OP is "generally not well-regarded" by the majority of viewers. On the contrary, I am always astounded how much love (and I must say, undeserved love) is shown for that movie on this board. I don't share that feeling at all. For me, OP is the second-worst Moore film (constantly in danger of losing out even to AVTAK), and just ahead of the three or four bottom-basement films in my ranking. Now I wouldn't go so far as saying I "genuinely can't understand why" someone likes this movie, but compared to most of the other entries of the franchise, and even NSNA, I'm definitely not among those people.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 1,078
    I'm the same. I get surprised when OP gets so much love here. I think of OP and it's one of the 'spoof' Moore-era films for me. I can't forgive the Tarzan yell and the whole Q on a hot air balloon stuff. Bond in a clown suit, and a monkey suit, all that.
    I do get it that the ending is suspenseful with the countdown, and these films are never as disappointing as you remember them at the time. And for people that never saw it at the time, I can imagine it's a fun way to spend a couple of hours.
    From my memories of the early to mid eighties Bond era, I loved NSNA and as far as the official series went, I was waiting eagerly for a film like The Living Daylights.

    When it comes to 'films you like but don't get the distain', then it's SPECTRE all the way. It's head and shoulders a better movie than, erm, Question of Sport, but look how much love QoS gets compared to SP!
    I think because QoS is so short, and has milli-second edits, it's one of the most re-watchable. That's got to be the reason it's loved so much, because as a movie, it's a right mess!
  • Posts: 1,340
    If you watch a movie many times, you become immune to jokes.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    If you watch a movie many times, you become immune to jokes.

    if a tree falls in a forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound, @DEKE_RIVERS ?
  • Posts: 1,340
    AVTAK is more balanced than OP but it's less fun.
    I can understand why people love Octopussy but It's not The fourth protocol. The silly jokes are there.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    AVTAK is more balanced than OP but it's less fun.
    I can understand why people love Octopussy but It's not The fourth protocol. The silly jokes are there.

    I don't think anyone was claiming it was The Fourth Protocol, for obvious reasons.

    Anyway, agree on AVTAK. If they had recast the role at that point it would be held in much higher regard by myself. There's plenty about it that I like but unfortunately I can't get past Moore. He was distractingly unfit to play the part at that point.
  • Posts: 1,078
    If you watch a movie many times, you become immune to jokes.

    Octopussy has one of my favourite jokes actually, the "no madam, I'm with the economy tour" one. If they'd have just left the Tarzan and 'sit' jokes out that sequence, it would have worked as a not bad sequence with Bond in real danger, with a quip at the end. 'Playing it for laughs' ruined a few Moore Bond movies for me. Octopussy and Moonraker were the worst offenders.
    Which film is the Q branch scene with Bond zooming in on a woman's tits? That's Octopussy too I think. It was embarrassing then, heavens knows how it looks today.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    If you watch a movie many times, you become immune to jokes.

    Hmm. No.

  • I’d much rather watch OP than NSNA any day of the week. OP certainly isn’t one of the best Bond films, but it’s a helluva lot better than NSNA imo.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    If you watch a movie many times, you become immune to jokes.

    Octopussy has one of my favourite jokes actually, the "no madam, I'm with the economy tour" one. If they'd have just left the Tarzan and 'sit' jokes out that sequence, it would have worked as a not bad sequence with Bond in real danger, with a quip at the end. 'Playing it for laughs' ruined a few Moore Bond movies for me. Octopussy and Moonraker were the worst offenders.
    Which film is the Q branch scene with Bond zooming in on a woman's tits? That's Octopussy too I think. It was embarrassing then, heavens knows how it looks today.

    OP is a lot more worse than MR, at least Bond is not doing out of character moments in there, he's still being James Bond

    OP had him crossed a bridge too far with Tarzan Yell, Talking to animals, wearing the lei, zooming in woman's tits, it's so outlandish and almost cartoonish, at least MR has its moments.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Bar the Tarzan yell, I don't think any of those are particularly egregious to be honest. And the precedent for the Tarzan yell was set in TMWTGG with the slide whistle, which was also a mistake.

    I especially don't think the breast gag in OP is out of character for Bond in the slightest. In MR he spends the first half of the film poking fun at the idea that Goodhead could possibly work for NASA and be the best in her field because she's a woman. At least the boob gag in OP is kind of funny in an extremely immature way.

    He's always objectified women.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Bar the Tarzan yell, I don't think any of those are particularly egregious to be honest. And the precedent for the Tarzan yell was set in TMWTGG with the slide whistle, which was also a mistake.

    I especially don't think the breast gag in OP is out of character for Bond in the slightest. In MR he spends the first half of the film poking fun at the idea that Goodhead could possibly work for NASA and be the best in her field because she's a woman. At least the boob gag in OP is kind of funny in an extremely immature way.

    He's always objectified women.

    💯… well said @CraigMooreOHMSS … Even the Tarzan yell… I mean it’s about one second of an entire film, whereas the niggling at Goodhead does go on a bit (and considering he worked with his “equal”, who was a woman, in the previous film, that kind of joke gets tired quickly (although I am seriously softening up to Moonraker and it’s climbing up my ranking. Saying that, Octopussy is a far superior Bond adventure).

  • edited December 2023 Posts: 1,078
    And the precedent for the Tarzan yell was set in TMWTGG with the slide whistle, which was also a mistake.

    I always took the Tarzan yell to be Bond making the sound. Are you saying you think of it as a sound effect (like the slide whistle), rather than Bond actually mimicking the Tarzan yell?

    In FYEO there's a car horn sound when Bond sees the Citroen. To me, that's allowed, because it's part of the soundtrack that matches the visuals. I never thought the car was actually making that sound. This is why the slide-whistle never seems as bad as the Tarzan yell. It's part of the music soundtrack in a way, (and yes, it's still rubbish).
    But I always took the Tarzan yell to be part of the movie, the same way the 007 theme played on the snake-charmer's flute is.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,031
    I think there's a great distinction between silly moments and inherently silly films. OP has a pretty tight Cold War based plot about nuclear war and smuggling, whereas TSWLM and MR have an over the top, end of civilization cartoonishness to them. You mean to tell me Bond riding a jet ski towards an octopus-shaped floating city in the sea inhabited by a maniac with webbed hands while disco music is blaring isn't sillier than a Tarzan yell?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2023 Posts: 18,270
    I think there's a great distinction between silly moments and inherently silly films. OP has a pretty tight Cold War based plot about nuclear war and smuggling, whereas TSWLM and MR have an over the top, end of civilization cartoonishness to them. You mean to tell me Bond riding a jet ski towards an octopus-shaped floating city in the sea inhabited by a maniac with webbed hands while disco music is blaring isn't sillier than a Tarzan yell?

    A very good point well made, sir. Sometimes we, as Bond fans, are guilty of not seeing the wood for the trees. The sum of a film is more than a few small isolated parts. The individual parts have to be viewed in the context of the film as a whole and what type of Bond film it really is.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 1,340
    I think there's a great distinction between silly moments and inherently silly films. OP has a pretty tight Cold War based plot about nuclear war and smuggling, whereas TSWLM and MR have an over the top, end of civilization cartoonishness to them. You mean to tell me Bond riding a jet ski towards an octopus-shaped floating city in the sea inhabited by a maniac with webbed hands while disco music is blaring isn't sillier than a Tarzan yell?

    But OP is a silly movie too. I mean, the plot is very silly with the fake eggs, circus, cartoon India, etc. It's Moonraker without spaceships.
  • Posts: 1,078
    Bond on a jet ski was cool though. I know the situation was outlandish, but cool goes a long way.
    Bond swinging through the trees on a vine doing a Tarzan yell isn't cool.

    Was disco music playing over the jet-ski? In my mind it was the Bond theme, but I could well be miss-remembering.
    If it wasn't the Bond theme, it should have been.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,118
    I love both OP and AVTAK, as well as TMWTGG. Seems like I have a soft spot for Moore’s lesser appreciated entries.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 1,078
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I love both OP and AVTAK, as well as TMWTGG. Seems like I have a soft spot for Moore’s lesser appreciated entries.

    After joining this thread earlier, (and being laid up with flu, so all Xmas eve fun social stuff was cancelled), I re-watched OP again . . . and though I still wish the really silly humour wasn't there, it really does rock.
    I'm probably going off topic here, but in the bits where Rog's Bond was pissed off, he really nailed it. There's a scene with Bond holding Orlav (sp?) at gunpoint on the train, and Rog would give even Tim or Craig a run for their money when it comes to acting chops.

    I thoroughly enjoyed Octopussy tonight, after watching it in full for the first time in years. I can see where the OP lovers are coming from. The film's just bursting with fun, and is paced almost as good as TSWLM. Which I think was the pinnacle of the Moore years.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited December 2023 Posts: 1,711
    Kids, the silliness isn't a bug, it's a feature, and it's been there from the beginning. Dr No and FRWL were considered by contemporary critics to be borderline satirical.

    SPECTRE Island and offscreen Blofeld's Transylvanian accent and cat are completely ridiculous. As ridiculous as anything else.

    Just seems weird to say a Bond movie is almost good but for a defining feature of all Bond movies.
  • edited December 2023 Posts: 1,340
    Kids, the silliness isn't a bug, it's a feature, and it's been there from the beginning. Dr No and FRWL were considered by contemporary critics to be borderline satirical.

    SPECTRE Island and offscreen Blofeld's Transylvanian accent and cat are completely ridiculous. As ridiculous as anything else.

    Just seems weird to say a Bond movie is almost good but for a defining feature of all Bond movies.

    Well. It's over the top. That's the point. It's the silliest movie.

    Why forgive this one?


  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2023 Posts: 24,179
    Kids, the silliness isn't a bug, it's a feature, and it's been there from the beginning. Dr No and FRWL were considered by contemporary critics to be borderline satirical.

    SPECTRE Island and offscreen Blofeld's Transylvanian accent and cat are completely ridiculous. As ridiculous as anything else.

    Just seems weird to say a Bond movie is almost good but for a defining feature of all Bond movies.

    Excellent post, @ProfJoeButcher. The Bonds are often taken far too seriously, while their popularity is in large part due to the level of 'silly fun' to which they are committed. One or two bogus moments aren't problematic, they are part of the series' DNA. You always give the films a few concessions; in the Bonds, you have to. For while they are grounded in reality and perfectly capable of seriousness, they also flirt with the downright fantastical. And that's why we love them.

    Where I personally draw the line is when the silly fun is poorly written, poorly executed and/or absolutely insulting. And yet, even such moments rarely ruin an entire Bond film for me. Statements such as "brothergate makes me hate Spectre" make zero sense to me. Let's not forget that even our beloved OHMSS sends out hypnotized girls for the big villainous plot.
Sign In or Register to comment.