Big Mi6 James Bond film ranking game - A few stats!

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Okay chaps, we can get started. It's been an eventful last few days for me, not always in the most positive way. Regardless, the counting has been completed and it's been double-checked as well. 22 rankings were submitted, tomorrow I will reveal the film with the lowest average ranking.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    Thanks @GoldenGun. I really appreciate your efforts.

    Several weeks ago, I started to put together an EXCEL spreadsheet to assist, but since we can't attach documents here, I never completed it. It, seems, however, that you beat me to the punch in any case.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Thanks @Dwayne! That's very kind!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Ok dear friends, the Bond Games are underway now as we start with our bottom finish, at #25:

    DIE ANOTHER DAY (2002)
    Directed by Lee Tamahori

    3919320a726c4eac2be0a64d2dc532098f6a67cd2fc38533d2f547e44e7096ee.jpg

    "What an amazing coincidence"

    Unsurprisingly DAD catches the short end of the stick, by quite some distance too.

    Pierce's last hoorah as 007 ended up in no-one's top 10, it's one of only two entries to suffer this fate. Even worse is that it also did not finish in any top 15.

    It did receive at least one placement for every single ranking between 18th and 25th. Its highest ranking was 18th, which it obtained only once. Five members did rate it 19th though. A small consolation you might say, but at least not everyone dislikes DAD.

    Less than impressive is however the no less than nine bottom finishes. By far the most of all the contestants, with the next highest number of last places being three.

    DAD received a total of 52 points.

  • Posts: 4,162
    DAD is a film I always feel a bit sorry for. It’s got this great premise of Bond being captured, tortured for months, and then having to go on his own to figure out who betrayed him. I wish this idea was better married with the 'silliness' of the film. Incidentally, I don't think invisible cars, ice palaces, or villains using gene therapy on themselves is beyond Bond. Actually, if done right they could be great ideas. The film just isn't quite able to get its tone consistent, and the dated special effects and style don't help.

    I don't think it's the worst Bond film though. But I can see why this was the film that helped spur a critical change in direction.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 6 Posts: 24,183
    First of all, thank you, @GoldenGun, for what will undoubtedly be another entertaining ride!

    So, DAD finished last, huh? Not the biggest surprise, although I have been under the impression for some time now that the film was climbing a little higher on many lists. And considering the almost irrational hatred towards SP and NTTD that seems to be running rampant still, I was afraid one of those two would end last.

    Anyway, I've never downright loathed DAD. It's got some really cool moments, a tremendously hot Bond girl in Miranda and Peaceful and, yes, Halle shines too. Arnold's score has good moments in it. The CGI isn't ageing as poorly as I'd feared (apart from some unfortunate bits), Brosnan is suave, and the underground Q and M meetings kinda rock. But most of all, this film is in on the joke (unlike its predecessor.) So not quite a deserved last place for me, but I'm not entirely sorry either.

    I had the film at #23.
  • Posts: 7,430
    Have to say I was a little anxious that NTTD or SP would turn up here, considering the heavy backlash they get, so am pleased the rightful last place for DAD, my last place now and forever more ( I can't really see the new Bond movie being this bad, but who knows?)
    I really can't find anything going for it, and it's not just the bad cgi, and invisible car, it has many a cringey line, some poor characters ( even the usually great Michael Madsen looks like he wishes he were anywhere else but here!) lousy action,( the awful hovercraft chase,the big set piece Aston chase has horrible speeded up editing, and the less said about the plane finale the better). Ok, so the swordfight was a great idea, but they even ruined that with silly gags ( slicing the newspaper, Bond somersaulting and doing Errol Flynn like moves)
    Daniel Kleinman does excellent work in the title sequence, but even that is blighted by that godawful Madonna dirge of a song!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited August 6 Posts: 14,582
    These OTT entries are needed to keep the series regenerating. The next in sequence reverts back to grounded, followed by a gradient approaching OTT again but not always reaching that peak, as evidenced by the Craig era. Personally I have FRWL at #1 and DAD around #20 in regards to critical acclaim, but entertainment-wise, there is only a minute gap between these extremes. If I award FRWL 5 stars, DAD wouldn't be 1 star, but 3. A 1-star rating for a Bond film to me means it's so bad I'd never watch it again, and I can't imagine ever doing that with Bond!

    Credit for including: professional surfers; North Korean military presence; hovercraft chase; Bond imprisoned; continuing the scene throughout the title sequence; the return of Philips products; bird field guide; Blades; near-swashbuckling sword fight; abandoned subway meet-up place; Bond at his desk with decanter and cleaning kit; MI6 HQ action scene; redesigned gadgetry; failed sniping attempt; theme remix.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    For me DAD was the first Bond coming out after I became a fan, it's also the first one I saw in cinemas. I understand the backlash that the Madonna song gets, but that song just takes me back to when I was 13 and in full anticipation of my first Bond premiere. I am also partial to electronic music, I must admit.

    Nonetheless, DAD has a lot of issues and I am not denying that. These issues have and will be documented here and elsewhere I'm sure, so let me just focus on what I do like: surfing scene, Bond's smirk to Van Bierk, hovercraft chase, title song + sequence, Hong Kong hotel scenes, Cuba scenes, sword fight, Frost, the ice palace, the Aston v Jag chase, title song remix.

    Special shoutout to Emilio Echevarría's Raoul who is my favourite character here in this one, and who I also rate highly amongst the Bond allies in general.

    All of the factors above combined with some nostalgic affection, makes me rank it 19th, which is its second highest amongst the participants here.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Thanks from me as well for running this while you have so much going on, @GoldenGun. You're a champ.

    DAD came in at 19 for me, which sounds about right for the most part though I'll be interested to see what changes, if any, come out of my yearly Bondathon in November.

    My first Bond film in theaters, I'll never forget the palpable excitement I felt riding in the near dark to the theater that opening night to see it. While it has plenty of objective flaws that bring it down, I've always said the film can never be considered boring, one of the biggest sins any installment in the series can commit in my opinion. I've always had a blast with it and am able to wholeheartedly love and celebrate its positives while ignoring as best I can its deep issues. There's no question there's a much stronger exit for Brosnan's tenure lurking deep within, and I think a removal of the sci-fi stuff and not relying on such heavy CGI alone would've gone a long way in improving it. No matter though, for I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for it.
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    Posts: 64
    Didn't manage to add my comments to the non-eon films, so I'll address that first:

    Casino Royale '67 would be dead last for me. Some complement on it's craziness as a strength, I think they are confusing incoherence with craziness. The film was directed by 6 directors and it shows, there is no cohesive vision. It is a boring watch with almost all jokes falling flat. I guess some of the sets look cool, but that's about it. I also find the soundtrack torturous.

    Casino Royale '54 is an interesting tv film, that doesn't quite work. It's low budget kind of becomes detrimental, the technical aspects are just subpar across the board, but it does have some strengths, such as Peter Lorre and the overall cast. It is an interesting blueprint of what a Bond film could be like if it had been more of a noir-thriller rather than a action thriller. Imagine it in the hands of Fritz Lang with a proper budget, that would have been interesting. Hope we will see a similar take on the novel in a few years time when the rights expire. Anyway, I would probably rank CR '54 over 5-6 EON films.

    Never Say Never Again I find somewhat underrated. It does have some major drawbacks such as production value and soundtrack, the latter being worse than any EON film and the former being worse than any save Licence to Kill. However, the aspects that matter more to me, it delivers on. The casting, characters and the story/screenplay mostly delivers, with especially the villains being a major highlight. It feels very Bondian to me. I would watch Thunderball over it any day, but certainly prefer NSNA to Octopussy and most of the EON films of the 70s and 80s. I think it would rank 14th best Bond film.

    And on to Die Another Day. Hardly surprising ranking. I put it in 23rd spot in my ranking. It actually climbed up two spots on my latest viewing, before it was dead last. But I appreciate most of the Cuba part, even Halle Berry's introduction scene, which I find sexy and fun. The sword fight is good and the car chase is the fun kind stupid. The rest is just the non-fun kind of stupid unfortunately, it's not entertaining in the least, but quite boring actually.
    DAD belongs to a handful Bond films which are just bad films period, so well deserved last spot.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I don't think DAD is the worst. It's a bit cheesy and tacky, and even looks a bit cheap here and there, but it is never boring and is perfectly entertaining, and I think there are some Bonds which fare worse on that scale.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    DAD came in at number 21 for me. It's a film that has grown on me since my initial 2002 experience with it. Now I can appreciate it for the entertaining romp that it is.
    But it's unlikely to improve much higher in my rankings. Certainly a few films below it, that I'm sure will pop up in the next few ratings.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 11 Posts: 7,134
    Pierce just can't catch a break, as we reveal #24:

    THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (1999)
    Directed by Michael Apted

    1638f2472edcd433fdfbdca31f25a73fbda3e80baf77b30348e1f951062c67c6.jpg

    "(...) the numbers are not on your side."

    TWINE, though, at least has a handful of fans. It was included in three top 10's: one 8th and two 10th places. There was also one 12th place, and five other top 20 rankings.

    Having said that, it also received thirteen bottom 5's, of which three were last places.

    Suffice to say that TWINE does have its fans, but they are most certainly part of a minority.

    TWINE ended up with a total of 74 points.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I had this one at #24. It's a very flawed film for me. After the PTS and OT, the film loses its thrills entirely. Story, action, suspense, ... all slow down to the point where if the film refuses to try, why should I?
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    Posts: 64
    Auch! So undeserved in my opinion. I have it in the top 10, personally. The characters of Elektra King, Zukowski, Bond, M and Renard are enough to at least elevate it to top 16-17. Elektra King alone is so outstanding that I cannot fathom how anyone would rank it below a handful of films that have nothing going for them.
    I guess people give more point for set-pieces and thrills than I do and less for drama and characters.

    My ranking so far
    10. The World is not Enough
    23. Die Another Day
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Auch! So undeserved in my opinion. I have it in the top 10, personally. The characters of Elektra King, Zukowski, Bond, M and Renard are enough to at least elevate it to top 16-17. Elektra King alone is so outstanding that I cannot fathom how anyone would rank it below a handful of films that have nothing going for them.
    I guess people give more point for set-pieces and thrills than I do and less for drama and characters.

    My ranking so far
    10. The World is not Enough
    23. Die Another Day

    The drama in TWINE just isn't that good, IMO. Poorly written, unconvincingly acted, a little pathetic at times.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Ranked at #12 for me, it's an average Bond film, it's not the worst (there are far more worse like DAF and TMWTGG), what raised it for me are the acting and the story aspect of Elektra, but yes, the potential were present in this film, just not reached and polished at its finest, a missed opportunity of a Bond film for me, there were many things gone wrong in this film, but nevertheless, I could still watch it everytime I liked, and enjoy the action sequences, Denise Richards did well what she's asked to do, but the character was just badly written, needs a complete rewrite, it's not the worst, but it's just okay, an average or middle tier of a Bond film.
  • Posts: 7,430
    I did place TWINE above Brossas other films, #22, mainly because of Sophie Marceau, who is wonderful, but she is floundering in a weak movie! Love the title song too, as I was a big fan of the group Garbage, and Kleinman does stellar work again. The Q boat was a cool vehicle, but the chase just goes on and on, and becomes boring, as are the other action beats! As @DarthDimi states, no one has a problem with drama, when it's done well...it isn't here!
    Now I must go and attend to my shoooooooulder!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I think it has a good story and is full of interesting and original ideas, and really pushed the Bond films forward in this regard. But it is directed in quite a dull way with poor editing and quite boring action scenes; there’s little style on display and is overwhelmingly brown. I think it’s probably quite low on my list too.
  • edited September 9 Posts: 4,162
    Unfortunately it’s my least favourite Bond film. When some fans talk about how grim and dark they find the Craig films (I would disagree personally), that’s not unlike how I see this film. Most of it comes from what’s been mentioned - the cinematography/look of the film is just so dreary and lifeless, there’s a lifelessness to the editing/action, and the more dramatic scenes ring a bit false.

    I love the ideas in this film, and I think Bond shouldn’t be afraid to veer into a bit of darkness or fatalism as this movie is trying to do (the idea of a villain with essentially a terminal illness in the form of a bullet in his head, in theory, is a great idea. Same for a psychopathic oil heiress with a vendetta). But how it presents these ideas lets it down. Still though, it’s a sort of dry run for SF which is cool.

    For what it’s worth this isn’t an unwatchable film (even a not very good Bond movie is a passable film, and I know this film has its fans). But for me personally it doesn’t give me the thrills or capture me as I like my Bond films to do.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    007HallY wrote: »
    Most of it comes from what’s been mentioned - the cinematography/look of the film is just so dreary and lifeless

    I find it sets out its stall straight away: whereas even the weakest Bond films open their gunbarrel on something like Christopher Lee and Maud Adams sat on the most beautiful exotic sunny beach, or sweeping vista of Lake Como or something, here it opens on James Bond's face as he crosses a road in overcast Bilbao which is so boring they don't even show it to us. Then we see him sat in a dreary, cramped little ordinary office. The glamour and style of a Bond film is almost entirely missing.

    007HallY wrote: »
    For what it’s worth this isn’t an unwatchable film (even a not very good Bond movie is a passable film, and I’m know this film has its fans). But for me personally it doesn’t give me the thrills or capture me as I like my Bond films to do.

    Yes, none of them are bad and I still like this film to some extent, even if I regard it as one of the weakest Bonds.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    I like this film a lot, but I think I put DAD ahead of it in terms of entertainment value. Ski scene and caviar factory shootout have some great ideas in there but the action felt like a studio stage show at Movie World. Actually, the video games improved on a few things, like making Renard more ominous, giving Gabor more to do, and some atmospheric lurking around Baku forest at night.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    So far the bottom-basement ranking is exactly in line with mine. I'm sure it won't last.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    25th and 23rd respectively.
    Both are movies I only watched once in their entirety in the cinema and that was more than enough.
    I quite like Garbage’s title song and DAD’s PTS is decent enough.
    Other than that, I have absolutely no desire ever revisiting these movies again.
  • Posts: 7,430
    Not sure the late Adrian Biddle ( died very young at 53!) was ideal candidate for cinematography! He hadn't got that great a resume, though he did work on a few blockbusters like 'Aliens', and worked with Ridley Scott on 'Thelma and Louise' and '1492', though when you're working with Scott you have a distinct advantage, him being such a good visuallist!
  • edited August 7 Posts: 4,162
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Most of it comes from what’s been mentioned - the cinematography/look of the film is just so dreary and lifeless

    I find it sets out its stall straight away: whereas even the weakest Bond films open their gunbarrel on something like Christopher Lee and Maud Adams sat on the most beautiful exotic sunny beach, or sweeping vista of Lake Como or something, here it opens on James Bond's face as he crosses a road in overcast Bilbao which is so boring they don't even show it to us. Then we see him sat in a dreary, cramped little ordinary office. The glamour and style of a Bond film is almost entirely missing.

    007HallY wrote: »
    For what it’s worth this isn’t an unwatchable film (even a not very good Bond movie is a passable film, and I’m know this film has its fans). But for me personally it doesn’t give me the thrills or capture me as I like my Bond films to do.

    Yes, none of them are bad and I still like this film to some extent, even if I regard it as one of the weakest Bonds.

    It’s definitely has its moments. I actually find the little moment when Bond reveals his name to Jones/shoots the canister and flies up the missile silo (or whatever it is) to the Bond theme unironically cool (I guess we also get two ‘Bond, James Bond’ lines in this movie). The PTS is a bit long and lacking in a bigger opening sequence or captivating locations, but I like the set up of King’s assassination and the end with the cigar girl blowing herself up (again, very Bondian with the villain being unnamed at this point but having this aura of menace to the extent a henchwoman would rather kill herself than risk him going after her). Renard has some nice moments and even bits of dialogue. I like the theme and titles a lot. Marceau is actually pretty good, as is Coltrane. The script isn’t even bad honestly in itself.

    But yeah, it just lacks a bit of that style. It’s a bit of a misfire but oh well.
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    Posts: 64
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The drama in TWINE just isn't that good, IMO. Poorly written, unconvincingly acted, a little pathetic at times.
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I did place TWINE above Brossas other films, #22, mainly because of Sophie Marceau, who is wonderful, but she is floundering in a weak movie! Love the title song too, as I was a big fan of the group Garbage, and Kleinman does stellar work again. The Q boat was a cool vehicle, but the chase just goes on and on, and becomes boring, as are the other action beats! As @DarthDimi states, no one has a problem with drama, when it's done well...it isn't here!
    Now I must go and attend to my shoooooooulder!

    I just flat out disagree with you both, I think the drama works well. It is flawed, but the dynamic between Marceau and Brosnan has sufficient highlights to make it more interesting than any of the drama in the rest of the series, save 6-7 entries. Marceau, Brosnan, Dench, Carlyle and Coltrane all deliver good performances. Richards disappoint, but also is not as bad as people say either.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I agree regarding Denise. She's far from the worst part of the film. In fact, she helps me to enjoy the film a bit more.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 11 Posts: 7,134
    #10 for me. Obviously nostalgia has something to do with it yet again. This was my first true Bond experience, I liked the mixture of fun escapism, humour, character-driven story and the stylish protagonist.

    It's all been done better in other entries (the Dalton films come to mind), though this one does find the right balance here between amusing entertainment and an engaging story.

    My positives definitely include Sophie Marceau, Robbie Coltrane, Maria Grazia Cucinotta, the pts, the action in general (I like it more than most it seems), the music, the title sequence, the mi6 scenes, the gadgets and Pierce himself.

    One final thing that I like here, is that it's the entry that reminds me most of the Bond video games I used to play when I was a wee lad. I'm sure that's a con for many viewers, for me that's a pro however.
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