"Governments change, the lies stay the same." The politics of James Bond.

thedove

Based on recent discussion in the "What if" thread there was some thoughtful comments about the politics of our man Bond. Some opined that Bond would most likely lean right in terms of politics, others say some of his traits and thoughts would have him leaning left.

Cubby was quick to keep Bond out of politics and political stances. SPECTRE was used as the primary villain to have the Bond films sidestep SMERSH and the Russians being the baddies. In later films we have seen geo politics creep into the films but we have never seen how Bond felt on some of these issues.

Would you like to see James Bond take more of a stance on things politically? Or should he be kept as an apolitical character?


What do you see from his character actions that would cause you to think how he leans? Should the film series consider making him more political in future adventures or did Cubby have this right?

Lets discuss the politics of Bond in this thread. Please keep the dialogue respectful and on-point.

007HallY

I’d say Fleming’s Bond had a tendency towards cynicism which actually made him quite radical in his outlook (ie. His thoughts about the ‘Red Indians’ in CR and him thinking ‘prohibition is the trigger of crime’ in relation to drug policing at the beginning of GF). But ultimately he was a blunt instrument. From what I understand Fleming’s own political views weren’t straightforwardly right wing anyway, especially not as we’d view that side of the spectrum today broadly.

I’m not sure Bond’s world view in either the books or films bears much resemblance to the modern day right. Certainly not in terms of basic economics. Bond stories often feature wealthy megalomaniac villains who believe they’re extraordinary enough to do evil things, whereas Bond does what he does out of a deeper sense of duty, morality, selflessness, and bravery. It’s conservative in a sense (albeit small c) but I don’t see it being a partisan series in this way, and ultimately I think Bond is in many ways separate from politics.

echo

I think Bond is more conservative in terms of upholding the status quo and in his willingness to kill for his country...but much more liberal in his sexual mores.

He's, as you say, complicated.

FoxRox

I’ll bring over some of my thoughts from the other discussion and add some more here. I believe that Bond is mostly an apolitical individual. He strikes me as someone that doesn’t have the time for or interest in political stuff, preferring to focus on his missions and the things that bring him joy such as sex, drinking, smoking, fine dining, and gambling. I imagine he would have a low opinion of politicians across the whole spectrum, seeing them as silly charlatans at best and sinister evildoers at worst. Speaking from an American perspective, if Bond HAD to be labeled, he’s at least way closer to being Libertarian than Republican or Democrat. He would surely want to be left the hell alone by the government outside of his work (he already goes against protocol all the time within his government job, too!).

Regarding Bond’s sense of loyalty and duty to country, I recognize this is typically observed as a conservative quality, but that doesn’t mean it has to be. Many left-leaning people are patriotic, too, and I don’t believe Bond’s commitment to country is a giveaway in one direction or another of his political beliefs. I think he is just very driven to do his job.

One thing I feel I must bring up is Bond’s problematic attitudes and behaviors, including a sexist view of women in the Casino Royale novel, and also him being insensitive towards black people as described via a quick flashback in the Diamonds Are Forever novel. While the prejudice is unfortunate and strongly associated with rightwing thinking, I do believe things of this nature in Bond’s case are more related to him being “traditional” in his era, when a whole lot more people in general thought and talked in these sort of ways, rather than them being politically motivated. I could be wrong about this, but it’s my gut feeling that those kind of moments are “product of its time” material more than anything else.

Most of Bond’s foes are very affluent, and though Bond is not poor, he is much lower than them on the ladder. While I don’t think this makes him fighting them and defeating them inherently political, I do see an interesting concept of a lower class individual successfully “fighting the power,” so to speak, which suggests a popular leftwing kind of idea. The wealthiest people are often conservative, as that is what benefits them in keeping and propelling forward their status, and Bond likely can’t have a high opinion of them given how many in his world have been pure evil.

I may come back here and add more thoughts later, but these are just some of my own late night ramblings for now. A British person, or at least someone who knows a lot more about British culture than me, will likely have a more accurate and detailed analysis and understanding of Bond’s potential political placement. I hope I made at least some sense here, but anyways, in summary once again, I do not think Bond would identify himself as a rightwing or leftwing person, and the closest category I can think of for him in American terms is Libertarian.

007HallY

The only reference I have to American Libertarians is watching a bit of the 2016 Presidential debates (where candidates were asked, among many questions, whether people should need licences to operate a car. Most said no as it was an infringement on their freedom. Another one was who would pay for roads under a taxless system, and one responded jet packs would be a thing in the future anyway and the market would solve this problem). Not sure if this was the best representation of this party/ideology, but I think Bond’s libertarianism is probably about as ‘small l’ as his conservatism is ‘small c’.

I think trying to understand Bond from purely political or religious lines (at least to the extent where someone is trying to say ‘he’s on x side of the political spectrum’ or ‘he’s an agnostic/Christian etc) will always come up with contradictory points even when there’s overlap. To some extent it’s because the character is quite contradictory. He’s an agent of His/Her Majesty’s Government and yet his 00 status means he operates outside conventional policing. In his own habits/vices he’s rather liberal (I don’t mean that in a political sense), and yet he has that deeper sense of duty/bravery. I can’t imagine any film Bond giving much thought to politics or religion, and Fleming’s version only had occasional inner thoughts about these matters.

GoldenGun

Can't quite comment on the Anglo-Saxon perspective, but from a continental European's standpoint (i.e. a political spectrum with many many parties), I suppose Bond would be what one would call a centrist. He'd probably see the virtues of both centre-left as well as centre-right, depending on the subject, without being seduced by the extremes of either side.

Reflsin2bourbons

I think Bond probably doesn't care about a Labour or Conservative government running the country. He moans a little bit about the welfare state and youth having it easy (and then swaps his opinion on the young man once he drives his car fast) but also doesn't seem to be ideologically against communism, saying the Conservatives in the 50s would be seen as communists just 50 years before. He even supports Castro and his rebels in one of the short stories!

And as @007HallY mentions, there's how Bond thinks prohibition is the trigger of crime and feels bad for Blackwell and his operation. This of course contrasts to how he's disgusted with Le Chiffre's marijuana usage and Colombo's rejection of drugs.

It's hard to even peg Bond's moral code straight: he seems to dislike cheats and wifebeaters in MR, but enjoys the company of Draco and Kerim, both self-proclaimed rapists. But of course Scaramanga and his goons are seen as crass for their behaviour with the "entertainment."

Troy

I would imagine Bond is politically very cynical, and not really interested in political causes.

Certainly, politics must be left out of the films. For example, look how LTK dated fast.

Once you bring politics into the mission, then the clear and simple good guy / bad guy situation gets blurred.

HitchBondUSA

thedove

I suppose QOS had some aspects of politics. Beene and Leiter seem to have conversations that allude to the US government being okay with getting close to Greene.

I always took Bond's Beatles comment in GF to be a sign that he was firmly in the establishment. I think those that have suggested a libertarian slant might be close to what Bond's motto is.

He makes no judgements on those in a different lifestyles, he seems to be a live and let live, or is that live and let die, kind of guy?

I think that Cubby had the right idea keeping the series apolitical as possible. The other challenge with tying up in geo-politics is that the film can age badly or show it's age. I had to give a minor history lesson to my son when we watched OP. He has grown up far removed from the Cold War and the Berlin Wall.

ArapahoeBondFan

thedove wrote: »

I suppose QOS had some aspects of politics. Beene and Leiter seem to have conversations that allude to the US government being okay with getting close to Greene.

I always took Bond's Beatles comment in GF to be a sign that he was firmly in the establishment. I think those that have suggested a libertarian slant might be close to what Bond's motto is.

He makes no judgements on those in a different lifestyles, he seems to be a live and let live, or is that live and let die, kind of guy?

I think that Cubby had the right idea keeping the series apolitical as possible. The other challenge with tying up in geo-politics is that the film can age badly or show it's age. I had to give a minor history lesson to my son when we watched OP. He has grown up far removed from the Cold War and the Berlin Wall.

I've always wanted to do a lesson on the eyes by showing OP! Of course, it's not possible...

echo

HitchBondUSA wrote: »

I can't watch this tripe.

DarthDimi

I admire your bravery, gents, but aren't we at risk of overthinking things a little? The (various iterations of) Bond we've met in books and films so far sprang from the creative minds of many writers, producers, directors and actors, in very different historical contexts and 'zeitgeists', against very different pop cultures, and so on. At the very least, we should acknowledge that there isn't "one political James Bond", there are several.

Perhaps this is also a Rorschach test more than the search for a political profile. I do not doubt that we all read different things in Bond's attitude vis-à-vis the government, contemporary crises, youth culture, etc. The outcome of this attempt at putting Bond in a political box may have more to say about us than about the character.

But most of all I am convinced that Bond should not be thought of as a man of politics, even if we can assume that someone like him must have his own ideas about politicians and such. Whatever signs of political ideas Bond may have seemingly had, they are few and scattered over more than 60 years of film, not enough to reach solid conclusions anyway. I honestly think the filmmakers have done their darned best to keep Bond as politically neutral as possible. They want Bond to be fun for everyone. 'Hints' of his political preferences may therefore be entirely unintentional. Take Bond's remark about The Beatles. Some say that indicates Bond's position on the political spectrum. I'd say that's just a joke; it may not even have been meant by the character.

CommanderRoss

DarthDimi wrote: »

I admire your bravery, gents, but aren't we at risk of overthinking things a little? The (various iterations of) Bond we've met in books and films so far sprang from the creative minds of many writers, producers, directors and actors, in very different historical contexts and 'zeitgeists', against very different pop cultures, and so on. At the very least, we should acknowledge that there isn't "one political James Bond", there are several.

Perhaps this is also a Rorschach test more than the search for a political profile. I do not doubt that we all read different things in Bond's attitude vis-à-vis the government, contemporary crises, youth culture, etc. The outcome of this attempt at putting Bond in a political box may have more to say about us than about the character.

But most of all I am convinced that Bond should not be thought of as a man of politics, even if we can assume that someone like him must have his own ideas about politicians and such. Whatever signs of political ideas Bond may have seemingly had, they are few and scattered over more than 60 years of film, not enough to reach solid conclusions anyway. I honestly think the filmmakers have done their darned best to keep Bond as politically neutral as possible. They want Bond to be fun for everyone. 'Hints' of his political preferences may therefore be entirely unintentional. Take Bond's remark about The Beatles. Some say that indicates Bond's position on the political spectrum. I'd say that's just a joke; it may not even have been meant by the character.

'There's that, and the fact that political left and right tend to drift as well. Don't forget the Democratic party in the US used to be the party of the south. yes. the conservatives.

That beeing said, I think Bond in the books is the best to go on for any indication of his political leanings.I think it's in TMWTGG that he shows sympathy for the communists under Fidel, mainly because of the corruption in Cuba.
The treatment of coloured people is another thing people have been talking about, but I think Bond is misunderstood there. The words now interpreted as deregatory were not seen that way in the 1950's. Bond strikes a friendship with Quarrel, respecting him in every way, even to his belief in dragons. In LALD Bond doesn't seem to be affected by the fact that his opponents come from a culture others in his day would see as inferior. On the contrary, he's taking it all very seriously. He's just there doing his job whilst others are judging.
He may see women as pleasures, but in the books doesn't do so in a disposable way. Again, on the contrary, he's constantly trying to built meaningful relationships, those, sadly, constantly fall apart. See especially Tiffany Case, whom even lives with him for some time.
Yes, he's sometimes taking things in his own hand, choosing to operate freely instead of informing M in time, but that's all his judgment to get the job done. He loves his home country and it's independence.
AFAK he doesn't complain about rules set by the government anywhere. He works for his government and does his job to the best of his abilities and judgment.

All in all, I'd say he's got humanist tendencies, and a preference for democracy and against those who abuse it. So, in his day that would be liberal. These days, however, it isn't that clear, as only the far left/right try to dispose of those values.

DarthDimi

CommanderRoss wrote: »

DarthDimi wrote: »

I admire your bravery, gents, but aren't we at risk of overthinking things a little? The (various iterations of) Bond we've met in books and films so far sprang from the creative minds of many writers, producers, directors and actors, in very different historical contexts and 'zeitgeists', against very different pop cultures, and so on. At the very least, we should acknowledge that there isn't "one political James Bond", there are several.

Perhaps this is also a Rorschach test more than the search for a political profile. I do not doubt that we all read different things in Bond's attitude vis-à-vis the government, contemporary crises, youth culture, etc. The outcome of this attempt at putting Bond in a political box may have more to say about us than about the character.

But most of all I am convinced that Bond should not be thought of as a man of politics, even if we can assume that someone like him must have his own ideas about politicians and such. Whatever signs of political ideas Bond may have seemingly had, they are few and scattered over more than 60 years of film, not enough to reach solid conclusions anyway. I honestly think the filmmakers have done their darned best to keep Bond as politically neutral as possible. They want Bond to be fun for everyone. 'Hints' of his political preferences may therefore be entirely unintentional. Take Bond's remark about The Beatles. Some say that indicates Bond's position on the political spectrum. I'd say that's just a joke; it may not even have been meant by the character.

'There's that, and the fact that political left and right tend to drift as well. Don't forget the Democratic party in the US used to be the party of the south. yes. the conservatives.

That beeing said, I think Bond in the books is the best to go on for any indication of his political leanings.I think it's in TMWTGG that he shows sympathy for the communists under Fidel, mainly because of the corruption in Cuba.
The treatment of coloured people is another thing people have been talking about, but I think Bond is misunderstood there. The words now interpreted as deregatory were not seen that way in the 1950's. Bond strikes a friendship with Quarrel, respecting him in every way, even to his belief in dragons. In LALD Bond doesn't seem to be affected by the fact that his opponents come from a culture others in his day would see as inferior. On the contrary, he's taking it all very seriously. He's just there doing his job whilst others are judging.
He may see women as pleasures, but in the books doesn't do so in a disposable way. Again, on the contrary, he's constantly trying to built meaningful relationships, those, sadly, constantly fall apart. See especially Tiffany Case, whom even lives with him for some time.
Yes, he's sometimes taking things in his own hand, choosing to operate freely instead of informing M in time, but that's all his judgment to get the job done. He loves his home country and it's independence.
AFAK he doesn't complain about rules set by the government anywhere. He works for his government and does his job to the best of his abilities and judgment.

All in all, I'd say he's got humanist tendencies, and a preference for democracy and against those who abuse it. So, in his day that would be liberal. These days, however, it isn't that clear, as only the far left/right try to dispose of those values.

That's a great analysis, @CommanderRoss.

thedove

Love that post @CommanderRoss

Are we overthinking? Sure, some of us are reading the tea leaves a bit. I agree with you @DarthDimi the screen version of our favourite Secret Agent has been kept very clean in terms of political views.

Each side might be able to point to a line of dialogue here, an action there. The bottom line is it is all speculation.

A few of the movies have tackled geo-politics and in some cases the movie is dated because of it. The most egregious might be TLD where Bond helps the rebels that eventually morphed into the Taliban.

When we think of the two movies that involved drugs the producers chose fictional countries as to not besmirch or belittle a whole nation. Hence Isthmus and San Monique being used to stand in for real life countries. These changes don't detract from the movie in any way.