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Is this the end of spy movies?

chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
edited January 26 in General Discussion Posts: 17,889
It's just a jump to the right. Put your hands on your hips! And pull your loved ones in tighhhht....
Sorry, the Gray connection.
How IF are we ever gonna get new Bond movies with a world like this?
This is not just a comment on fascism on the rise, but a serious question about our escapist entertainment. Will this last MI film be the last gasp in a world that will seriously frown on movies where characters fight for freedom against 'the machine' or a world class villain?

Comments

  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 2,089
    Irrespective of what is happening in American politics, my hope is the next Bond will focus on British interests and very little on American. I realize the politics of the world at large will always be in the background, but that's where I hope it stays. For me the appeal of Bond has always been that he is British. I want Bond stories to continue to reflect that.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,486
    It's tricky. I think millions of people enjoy spy movies, of course - but how to introduce something fresh? The real life villains have already taken over and have, and are, doing things that would be considered "too much" in films. You couldn't make up some of the horrific things happening now worldwide.
    I don't know how to put Bond into this. The usual villains, usual suspect countries, hardly seem to fit in these times.

    I want it to be an escape, with the "bad guys" clearly defined (except the inevitable twist here and there is good) ... where do we put Bond? In what scenario? We have more than the "usual" fears and many more are actually real these days. Biochemical weapons? Pandemic? Nuclear war? Genocide? Traitors in highest positions of govt? Poison all the water systems in a country? It's all so viable and too much is happening now, so what kind of elements would make a Bond story stand out now?

    I don't know, but I'd like to hear other members' ideas of what threat to Bond would be a winning part of his story in the next film.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 1,547
    I don't think it matters. It's not the first time the world sucks.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,180
    Your post seems a bit 'political' to me. But there will always be the Spy genre, just like there will always be Cop movies.

    There will always be drama and action in the Spy genre. Bond, Bourne, Mission Impossible. All big money makers.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 26 Posts: 17,889
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    It's tricky. I think millions of people enjoy spy movies, of course - but how to introduce something fresh? The real life villains have already taken over and have, and are, doing things that would be considered "too much" in films. You couldn't make up some of the horrific things happening now worldwide.
    I don't know how to put Bond into this. The usual villains, usual suspect countries, hardly seem to fit in these times.

    I want it to be an escape, with the "bad guys" clearly defined (except the inevitable twist here and there is good) ... where do we put Bond? In what scenario? We have more than the "usual" fears and many more are actually real these days. Biochemical weapons? Pandemic? Nuclear war? Genocide? Traitors in highest positions of govt? Poison all the water systems in a country? It's all so viable and too much is happening now, so what kind of elements would make a Bond story stand out now?

    I don't know, but I'd like to hear other members' ideas of what threat to Bond would be a winning part of his story in the next film.

    Would this possibly be the time for Bond to go the way of the Hamilton trilogy? Don't dire times cause the Bond pendulum to swing cheeky?
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 26 Posts: 18,400
    I don't think it's the end of spy films any more than it was back nearly a decade ago when Brexit in the UK and Trump's first presidential term of office in the US were running almost concurrently to each other. You may remember that Purvis and Wade were interviewed in 2017 and they were making references to how the heavy political weather was making it hard to know which way to proceed with the new Bond film script (which was to become NTTD). They said that they might reference Brexit and Trump in some way in the finished script. Of course, as we know, NTTD was delayed by about two years overall from an autumn 2019 release to an autumn 2021 release. In that time the world turned some more and we had the once in a century Covid-19 pandemic. The finished film of course had no overt references to either Brexit or Trump which was maybe just as well as Brexit was achieved in January 2020 while Trump ended his presidential term in January 2021 after losing the election to Biden. So any reference to either of these would have immediately dated the film on its release.

    This is precisely why in the older Bond films producer Cubby Broccoli always rejected references to politics or political motivations for the villains - see how he rejected Anthony Burgess's script for TSWLM containing politically motivated villains who overthrow SPECTRE. Political motivations are fine for the Bond novels but they aren't so wise a move financially for the Bond films. They either date the film irreparably or more crucially they antagonise or alienate a section of the audience. Add to this the modern day slow progression between Bond films even of the same actor and you can see how politicising Bond or his villains would be a very risky venture. I think these things are more in the background, the backdrop to a new Bond film or novel adventure and not to the forefront of considerations creatively. "Fascism on the rise" nowadays could be like "Communism on the rise" in the old days of Bond, i.e. grist to the mill or grit in the oyster that produces the pearl (in this case a good Bond film or novel plot). Quite honestly, I don't see today as any different from any other era. There is good and bad in the world as there always has been and no doubt as there always will be. Without being too heavy handed, the good inspires the heroes of such stories as Bond and the bad inspires the villains. Isn't that precisely what keeps Bond going? If the world was perfect and there was "peace, perfect peace" between nations and peoples then I'm afraid that James Bond would be redundant and unnecessary. So would real world armies and intelligence agencies. So perhaps, for our heroes at least, we should be glad to live in such "interesting times".
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,121
    Bond survived the Nazis (at least the original literary figure did), the Soviets, Margaret Thatcher and so far Vladimir Putin. Bond will be around after Trump as well.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 26 Posts: 12,486
    Yes, Bond will continue. I would just like ideas on how. Maybe it would be the best time to approach it with a lighter touch, slightly cheeky at times (but what a fine line that is!).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,889
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    Yes, Bond will continue. I would just like ideas on how. Maybe it would be the best time to approach it with a lighter touch, slightly cheeky at times (but what a fine line that is!).
    "My God! You just killed James Bond!"
    "Is that who it was? Well, just goes to show, no one's indestructible."
    Fine lines?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,524
    We have a rich history of spy movies/ novels dating back 80 or 90 years, they will endure despite periods of low quality.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,874
    It is not even close to being over
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,486
    ha! The fine lines on Roger's forehead in LALD ....
    no, I mean the writers (always so crucial!) should not give us Austin Powers or parody of Roger or Pierce - but yes give us some humor, some lines wry, witty, sharp but not a jerk. Not so gritty and dark as Daniel's Bond (which I love). Not easy. Going for a lighter touch is a fine line, as you know, Chrisisall; but I think if done right, it could be just what we would most welcome in today's world.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,889
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    ha! The fine lines on Roger's forehead in LALD ....
    no, I mean the writers (always so crucial!) should not give us Austin Powers or parody of Roger or Pierce - but yes give us some humor, some lines wry, witty, sharp but not a jerk. Not so gritty and dark as Daniel's Bond (which I love). Not easy. Going for a lighter touch is a fine line, as you know, Chrisisall; but I think if done right, it could be just what we would most welcome in today's world.

    Timeless, bright escapism vs. irritating, dark relevance.
  • CigaretteLeiterCigaretteLeiter United States
    Posts: 110
    chrisisall wrote: »
    It's just a jump to the right. Put your hands on your hips! And pull your loved ones in tighhhht....
    Sorry, the Gray connection.
    How IF are we ever gonna get new Bond movies with a world like this?
    This is not just a comment on fascism on the rise, but a serious question about our escapist entertainment. Will this last MI film be the last gasp in a world that will seriously frown on movies where characters fight for freedom against 'the machine' or a world class villain?

    In a world where crime and terror are on the rise, standards of living are down, and it feels like nobody can make any headway against a system designed to empower the elite at everyone else’s expense, I think there’s never been a better time for escapism. We need heroes like James Bond who can mount a one-man war against shadowy cabals.

    It’ll be tough to make a compelling Bond villain when the President of the United States’s Grand Vizier is a real life Hugo Drax, but I have *some* faith in the writers to do something tasteful.
  • DewiWynBondDewiWynBond
    Posts: 1,036
    It's probably over; let's be realistic. Y'no most spy genre is in the tv series format now. Unless you enjoy them comedy spy movie.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,842
    All Netflix seem to make is spy movies and TV shows, usually some plot where someone’s boy/girlfriend turns out to be a superspy. There must be some algorithm which says people like to mindlessly watch tosh like that. They’ve literally just made that film again, this time with Jamie Foxx and Cameron Diaz.
  • DewiWynBondDewiWynBond
    Posts: 1,036
    Oh yeah, I heard that news last week, Cameron Diaz is back! I don't even have a television set or streaming services, yet I still know what's on them lol.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,842
    chrisisall wrote: »
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    It's tricky. I think millions of people enjoy spy movies, of course - but how to introduce something fresh? The real life villains have already taken over and have, and are, doing things that would be considered "too much" in films. You couldn't make up some of the horrific things happening now worldwide.
    I don't know how to put Bond into this. The usual villains, usual suspect countries, hardly seem to fit in these times.

    I want it to be an escape, with the "bad guys" clearly defined (except the inevitable twist here and there is good) ... where do we put Bond? In what scenario? We have more than the "usual" fears and many more are actually real these days. Biochemical weapons? Pandemic? Nuclear war? Genocide? Traitors in highest positions of govt? Poison all the water systems in a country? It's all so viable and too much is happening now, so what kind of elements would make a Bond story stand out now?

    I don't know, but I'd like to hear other members' ideas of what threat to Bond would be a winning part of his story in the next film.

    Would this possibly be the time for Bond to go the way of the Hamilton trilogy? Don't dire times cause the Bond pendulum to swing cheeky?

    I love Sean and Roger but I increasingly view those films as the nadir of the Bond series.
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