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The theories of Bond films! Why is Holly Goodhead so antagonistic to Bond for most of MR?

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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,671
    Lets stay in the 60's and consider another action that a character took.

    Mr. Solo has decided to not join in on Operation Grand Slam. OddJob is tasked with driving him to the airport. But as all the other gangsters have been eliminated the same fate must happen to Solo too. OddJob uses a gun and kills Mr. Solo in the back seat of the car. Understanding that Goldfinger doesn't wish for dead bodies on his stud farm OddJob must dispose of the body. He promptly drives to a car wrecker and proceeds to smash the car and the gold bullion in the trunk.

    Why? Why not remove the gold from the trunk and then smush the car? Why a car wrecker at all? Does Goldfinger own the wreckers and they are following orders?

    So many questions here, would love to hear some theories on why OddJob smashes the car at the wreckers?

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited March 12 Posts: 14,925
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    Homing bullet. SPECTRE have their own Q-Branch, you know.
    How bullets work. And "George".
    Crossroads
    Songwriters: Tom Waits / William S. Burroughs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUHgqSCS6tY&list=RDUUHgqSCS6tY&start_radio=1

    Now, George was a good straight boy to begin with,
    but there was bad blood In him; someway
    he got into the magic bullets and that leads
    straight to Devil's work, just like marijuana leads to heroin;

    you think you can take Them bullets or leave 'em, do you?
    Just save a few for your bad days
    Well, now, we all have those bad days when you can't shoot for shit.
    The more of them magics you use,
    the more bad days you have without them

    So it comes down finally to all your days
    being bad without the bullets
    It's magics or nothing
    Time to stop chippying around and kidding yourself,
    Kid, you're hooked, heavy as lead

    And that's where old George found himself
    Out there at the crossroads
    Molding the Devil's bullets
    Now a man figures it's his bullets, so it will
    Hit what he wants to hit
    But it don't always work that way
    You see, some bullets is special for a single aim
    A certain stag, or a certain person
    And no matter where you are, that's where the bullet will end up
    And in the moment of aiming, the gun turns into a dowser's wand
    And point where the bullet wants to go
    ...
    I guess old George didn't rightly know what he's getting himself into
    The fit was on him and it carried him
    right to the crossroads

    Nice one @RichardTheBruce. Love me a bit of Tom Waits. A bit of 'What's He Building Down There?'; a bit of 'Downtown Train.' Don't think I'd heard Crossroads though.
    thedove wrote: »
    How did Mi6 arrange the "killing" of Bond in YOLT?
    Maybe they were all in on it. Even the shooters. Even the duck. More homing bullets, but these ones avoid Bond and hit the wall behind him.

    Oddjob just liked to crush things, be it cars or balls. But especially balls.

    Also known for crushing cats, between the chompers.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,843
    I mean, Goldfinger could have just left Solo in the room as they were all going to be murdered anyway (for what I must say are unclear reasons, at least beyond being a script device to give us some exposition of the plan).
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,634
    thedove wrote: »
    Lets stay in the 60's and consider another action that a character took.

    Mr. Solo has decided to not join in on Operation Grand Slam. OddJob is tasked with driving him to the airport. But as all the other gangsters have been eliminated the same fate must happen to Solo too. OddJob uses a gun and kills Mr. Solo in the back seat of the car. Understanding that Goldfinger doesn't wish for dead bodies on his stud farm OddJob must dispose of the body. He promptly drives to a car wrecker and proceeds to smash the car and the gold bullion in the trunk.

    Why? Why not remove the gold from the trunk and then smush the car? Why a car wrecker at all? Does Goldfinger own the wreckers and they are following orders?

    So many questions here, would love to hear some theories on why OddJob smashes the car at the wreckers?


    The car (and the gold) are smashed into a cube and loaded in the back of an El Camino. That would be especially heavy...the El Camino's shocks and tires would not be able to deal with that load. In any case...I assumed Odd Job didn't want to be seen taking the gold out, not on the side of the road and not at the wreckers site. Given that gold melts at a lower temperature than steel and glass, all they had to do was heat the cube to the temperature that gold will melt and it will simply pour out and be easily collected...and well after Solo has turned to ash and withered away.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,229
    English as a second (and unspoken) language confused the original instructions.

    Plus to be fair Oddjob was distracted by something he saw back at the stud farm. Just couldn't get it out of his mind.


    C65OsW.gif


  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,925
    "Ahhh."

    Translation: "Just popping down to the scrapyard for a quick snack."
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited March 13 Posts: 5,671
    Too funny and yet some logic to an illogical scene.

    Okay lets move to Japan, known for their technology. In YOLT Bond is constantly amazed by Tiger and the Japanese Service. Tiger himself is most boastful about the various tech available to him and his team of agents.

    But one sequence takes the cake. The car magnet.

    Tiger removes a tail by snatching the car and carrying far afield, or should I say the car is put into a different stream.

    My question is how or why did Tiger apparently have another aircraft video the whole process for Aki and Bond's viewing pleasure? Course I know this was done for cinematic reasons. But lets have some fun with this one...

    Was it to make sure none of the SPECTRE agents escaped? Was this an ultimate Boss response to Bond to show the Japanese Secret Service mean business? Why have two aircraft filming this for Bond and Aki?

    Why did Tiger film the ocean drop for Bond and Aki?

  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,843
    The Japanese Secret Service seem to have an excess of funds in YOLT. They even have an entire subway specifically for the chief...

    I think they were just being extra and trying to upstage Bond/the secret service throughout, haha.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,196
    I always thought that the notion of someone somehow filming the "drop in the ocean" and somehow "streaming" it to Aki's Toyota in 1967 was ridiculous. It would work today, yes, but only if there were at least a mention of some drone or other surveillance device doing that job. For the film, they should have at least shown another helicopter besides the one with the magnet recording the whole scene, and the "live streaming" would have been plausible enough.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,229
    Another film clip for the annual gag reel of Japan Secret Service antics to be screened at the next Holiday Party.

    cinema-movies.gif
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,552
    Look, the Japanese have cameras everywhere in this film, including in space. So it's all part of this beautiful country's impressive network of invisible eyes in the skies.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,931
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Look, the Japanese have cameras everywhere in this film, including in space. So it's all part of this beautiful country's impressive network of invisible eyes in the skies.

    ... which is very smart of them considering the constant Kaiju attacks on their country. :D
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,552
    Dwayne wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Look, the Japanese have cameras everywhere in this film, including in space. So it's all part of this beautiful country's impressive network of invisible eyes in the skies.

    ... which is very smart of them considering the constant Kaiju attacks on their country. :D

    Imagine YOLT, but with Kaiju controlled by Blofeld.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,472
    007HallY wrote: »
    The Japanese Secret Service seem to have an excess of funds in YOLT. They even have an entire subway specifically for the chief...

    I think they were just being extra and trying to upstage Bond/the secret service throughout, haha.

    If they had done spinoffs in the 60s I would have happily watched the adventures of Tiger and Aki fighting supervillains in Japan with all of their super high tech trains and cars and castles.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,931
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dwayne wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Look, the Japanese have cameras everywhere in this film, including in space. So it's all part of this beautiful country's impressive network of invisible eyes in the skies.

    ... which is very smart of them considering the constant Kaiju attacks on their country. :D

    Imagine YOLT, but with Kaiju controlled by Blofeld.

    Well, if you replace Blofeld with aliens, you pretty much have the plot to several mid to late period Showa era Godzilla films. :))

    What I always find amazing, is that by 1967 or so, Bond's influence was so universal that films and TV programs that had nothing to do with spies, often incorporated spy like elements into their plots - and Japanese Kaiju films were no exception to this. (And this doesn't even include the various straight on 007 spoofs that were produced during this period.

    Let's see, who could be the female fatale of our alien Blofeld?
    ..... why none other than "Miss Namikawa" (played by the legendary Kumi Mizuno in INVASION OF ASTRO MONSTER). :x
    MV5BMDdiNGMxNGItYzBhNC00ZDYzLWFmNDMtZDE5ZjUzNmU3ODY3XkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_QL75_UX514_.jpg
    MV5BN2U1ODBiYWYtZTlmYS00YzA2LTkzOGEtMTlmODk1NWMzMGNhXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg

    * No piranha fish, but Miss Namikawa was vaporized for disobeying.

    Not a bad idea @mtm and you still have time to pitch this idea to the new Amazon Bond team!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,196
    I just learned the term "kaiju". Never heard it before and had to look it up. But then, I'm not at all interested in Godzilla etc.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,671
    Bond rarely, in fact I can only recall this instance, goes back in time. However in GE the PTS and the film have a gap of 9 years. Which given that GE was released in 1995 would place the PTS in 1986, before the events of TLD but after AVTAK and smack dab before Dalton took over the role.

    Do you have a theory why? Why would the film-makers choose a 9 year gap? Why place this within the timeline of Dalton?

    Some have espoused it was the film-makers disrespecting Dalton's reign and making it like those films didn't exist. Others say there was no nefarious reason. Heck they could have done a 6 year gap or even 5 and keep things tidy within the franchise. Now admittedly continuity was not a tight thing within Bond during these films, but still I would be curious to know your theory?

    Why is there a 9 year gap between the PTS and the rest of GE?

    I can't recall any reason in the plot for this 9 year gap to be needed? Although I suppose if Alec was starting from scratch he'd need time to build up his crime enterprise.

    Lets hear your theories on this, is the gap related to the films plot or is the gap a subtle jab at the Dalton era?
  • shimplyshocking007shimplyshocking007
    Posts: 172
    Neither Bond or Alec look like they've aged a day in 9 years!
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 721
    thedove wrote: »
    Bond rarely, in fact I can only recall this instance, goes back in time. However in GE the PTS and the film have a gap of 9 years. Which given that GE was released in 1995 would place the PTS in 1986, before the events of TLD but after AVTAK and smack dab before Dalton took over the role.

    Do you have a theory why? Why would the film-makers choose a 9 year gap? Why place this within the timeline of Dalton?

    Some have espoused it was the film-makers disrespecting Dalton's reign and making it like those films didn't exist. Others say there was no nefarious reason. Heck they could have done a 6 year gap or even 5 and keep things tidy within the franchise. Now admittedly continuity was not a tight thing within Bond during these films, but still I would be curious to know your theory?

    Why is there a 9 year gap between the PTS and the rest of GE?

    I can't recall any reason in the plot for this 9 year gap to be needed? Although I suppose if Alec was starting from scratch he'd need time to build up his crime enterprise.

    Lets hear your theories on this, is the gap related to the films plot or is the gap a subtle jab at the Dalton era?

    They could've made it 1987, but I think it's a nod to when Brosnan lost the 007 role which was around August 1986.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,229
    Studios issues explain the gaps between Bond missions.

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,455
    I think there's a number of reasons why they went for a nine year gap, both from a Doylist and Watsonian perspective:

    1)It put to rest the codename theory.
    2)It allows from a transition to Cold War to post Cold War era.
    3)Trevelyan needs time to establish his Janus persona and his criminal syndicate.
    4)it makes Bond already established as a 00 (he has the PPK and not a Beretta, for instance), but gives enough time to explain why he had a friend we never heard about (since he died a long time ago).
    5)it allows, if ever briefly, to show the Russians as Bond's enemy, at least during the Cold War.
    6)ten years would have been too obvious. 7)Also, 9 and 6 being reversible digits, it kind of calls back to the dusl nature of Janus. (Okay, I'm pushing it with this one, but still).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,196
    @Ludovico, except for your no. 7, you make too much sense for this thread ;) . I never questioned nor worried about the time gone by between the PTS scenes and the main GE action. I just accepted that the former took place in the Soviet Union and the latter in the Russian Federation. Oh, had we only known that there is not much of a difference in their leadership! But still...
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,925
    How are those Cagivas there, in 1986?

    All I can say is that if you're trying to make sense of this, just remember:
    50659855986_a5b7593958_o.png
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,678
    The Geography of the Dam/Facility/Runway is much more of an issue
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,671
    RichardTheBruce wrote: »
    Studios issues explain the gaps between Bond missions.

    Yeah so why not say 5 year later? Why did they go back to before Dalton took over? Was it an Easter Egg for when they first offered him the role? Or did it serve the story?
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited March 15 Posts: 4,583
    Pts is set in 1989. After the pts it is 1998. The movie playing after Tomorrow Never Dies but before Twine. On this way you also explain why Kitchen Tanner not in Tomorrow Never Dies (on this way he is seen in two movies in a row) and Valentine stil can say i heard M is woman, it is only year a go. Wade joke with rose is just to make fun of Wade a bit and he must do he don't know him. Moneypenny and Bond are also closer in Goldeneye.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited March 16 Posts: 4,843
    Mainly because the fall of the Soviet Union took place between ‘88-91. I’m not a historian but in ‘86 the Soviet Union still had its chemical and nuclear weaponry (Gorbachev had gotten in the year prior and from my understanding his plan was to slowly phase out a lot of this stuff. I guess it makes sense that it takes place in ‘86 as relations between the Russians, US, and UK are still frosty at this time and Bond would be more likely to be sent on such a mission to get rid of a shadowy, possibly even rogue Russian chemical facility).

    Basically it makes the most sense contextually. Any later and it’s unlikely historically. Any earlier and it doesn’t quite work with Brosnan Bond’s age. There’s actually a decent amount of consideration there - save for Alec’s age of course!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,925
    M_Balje wrote: »
    Pts is set in 1989. After the pts it is 1998.
    But, but, it's '96 expiry on Bond's gold card, and, and '95 on Wade's car rego sticker 😅
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 16 Posts: 17,472
    Also Bond and Trevelyan are wearing 1993/95 Omegas, as well as Bond riding a 1994 Cagiva motorcycle, which just messes everything up :D
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,229
    Reports of the Russian newspaper with 1995 date.

    Okay yeah on-screen typo.
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