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Best and worst case scenario for the Amazon Bond

DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
in Bond 26 & Beyond Posts: 24,468
As a moderator, I'm going against my usual instincts by creating this additional thread, but I'm doing it to gather our most optimistic and pessimistic predictions regarding the future of Bond at Amazon. The dual question is straightforward: What do you believe is the best-case scenario for Amazon's handling of Bond, and conversely, what do you foresee as the worst-case scenario?
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Comments

  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    edited February 21 Posts: 12,590
    The best-case scenario is smart and / or lucky hirings happening, particularly with the next directors, writers, and actors. If people who prioritize artistic integrity are chosen and are given a decent amount of say, the films could turn out great, but I’m skeptical of this based on what I’ve heard about Amazon from Barbara herself. Transitioning from that to worst-case scenario, a ton of bad decisions are made all around, and not only do we get bad mainline films, but tons of bad spinoffs and therefore over-saturation of the Bond property.

    What do I think will happen, as unbiased as I can be about it? I think we will see a very safe, uninspired film to get the next era started - something like The Force Awakens. Likely not offensively bad, but just massively underwhelming and lacking the soul and important touches we are used to seeing. There might also be more “woke” elements that will rile up the masses. I personally find the term as a pejorative to typically indicate insecurity and bigotry, but I am definitely fearful Bond’s character will be sanitized even more than he has already been, if that counts as “woke” (namely his womanizing ways are definitely done for).

    There will be at least one or two spin-offs to go with a mediocre mainline series, which might be slightly better or worse than the new main movies. Either way, they shall be unnecessary and take away from the special “event” feel of a new Bond film / experience. In summary, I don’t have much hope or faith in Amazon to put out high-quality Bond media, but I’d love to be proven wrong, and I do know it’s not impossible. The EON series is dead, though, and I can easily imagine only Dr. No through No Time to Die being seen as canon much the same way as Star Wars 1-6 but not 7-9. As I mentioned in the other thread, all I really want now is for the physical 4K editions of all the classic films to come out soon - without censorship. Let us at least enjoy the best possible quality versions of the classics as they were, and I can be at peace enough with the idea of the series going downhill.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 21 Posts: 17,104
    I don't think there's any problem with starting a new thread Dimi, this is the biggest topic to happen to 007 in decades, one thread can't contain it all!
    FoxRox wrote: »
    What do I think will happen, as unbiased as I can be about it? I think we will see a very safe, uninspired film to get the next era started - something like The Force Awakens. Likely not offensively bad, but just massively underwhelming and lacking the soul and important touches we are used to seeing.

    Yeah, that's what I think too. It'll probably be quite good for what it is like Force Awakens was, but also like Force Awakens I fear it'll have that slight sheen of inauthenticity.
    Basically it'll likely be another GoldenEye coming after the hiatus: and GoldenEye is good, but it is a bit 'greatest hits'. I remember coming out of the cinema and thinking 'well, that was certainly a James Bond film' - it felt like an old Bond film and didn't particularly surprise in many ways.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    There might also be more “woke” elements that will rile up the masses. I personally find the term as a pejorative to typically indicate insecurity and bigotry, but I am definitely fearful Bond’s character will be sanitized even more than he has already been, if that counts as “woke” (namely his womanizing ways are definitely done for).

    I mean, people get upset about that no matter what (just look at how mortified some people were that there was a black woman!!! in the last film), but given the way things are going in the States, and Bezos' capitulation to their new king, I don't see the film going in a particularly progressive new direction. I think it's less likely than if Broccoli had stayed in charge, let's put it like that. Bond #7 will be a white guy.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,468
    mtm wrote: »
    I mean, people get upset about that no matter what (just look at how mortified some people were that there was a black woman!!! in the last film), but given the way things are going in the States, and Bezos' capitulation to their new king, I don't see the film going in a particularly progressive new direction. I think it's less likely than if Broccoli had stayed in charge, let's put it like that. Bond #7 will be a white guy.

    I often find myself grappling with this issue. It's uncertain whether Amazon, politically speaking, remains neutral. As for the Broccolis, it's hard to say. Recent Bond films, thankfully, have avoided explicit references to Brexit and other contentious issues. Looking ahead, though, I'm uncertain about Bond's future direction. Personally, I hope future films won't further polarize our society.
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think there's any problem with starting a new thread Dimi, this is the biggest topic to happen to 007 in decades, one thread can't contain it all!

    Thanks, @mtm!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,843
    Best-case scenario we get films every three years and fresh ideas. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a period TV series that closely adapts the Fleming novels (with episode lengths varying greatly depending on story), but considering some of the dated subject matter in those novels it's unlikely.

    Worst-case scenario we get over-saturation of product, straight-to-streaming films (no theatrical release) and side character spin-offs most of us don't give a shit about.

    At the core of it, I'm gonna wait and see for myself the quality of the 'content' before stressing out too much. Amazon gave us The Boys, Fallout and I think co-produced Fleabag. Gotta continue to think positive for my own health.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,590
    I forgot to add under “worst-case scenario,” I am afraid of a noticeable shift for the series to start feeling more American and less British. I’m not saying that Bond & company wouldn’t still be located in England, but the tone and feel could easily be lost without those right, subtle sensibilities. As a US citizen (and one currently very ashamed one, mind you, though I did nothing personally to contribute to the current mess), the last thing I want is for Bond to become Americanized.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 21 Posts: 17,104
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I mean, people get upset about that no matter what (just look at how mortified some people were that there was a black woman!!! in the last film), but given the way things are going in the States, and Bezos' capitulation to their new king, I don't see the film going in a particularly progressive new direction. I think it's less likely than if Broccoli had stayed in charge, let's put it like that. Bond #7 will be a white guy.

    I often find myself grappling with this issue. It's uncertain whether Amazon, politically speaking, remains neutral. As for the Broccolis, it's hard to say. Recent Bond films, thankfully, have avoided explicit references to Brexit and other contentious issues. Looking ahead, though, I'm uncertain about Bond's future direction. Personally, I hope future films won't further polarize our society.

    Yeah I don't think the Brocs would have ever done anything explicitly political in terms of the traditional meaning of the word, but somehow representation and equality and understanding have become part of the political sphere (even though they shouldn't be) and that is the sort of thing they were moving towards, especially with Dame Barbara's interests in various movements and charities about women in film etc. (It's odd how they perhaps didn't move forward as much as one might expect though: no more female main villains, facially scarred baddies still being a thing etc.).
    I don't think the Amazon era will see a return to the old ways of bimbos in bikinis or anything like that, it'll still be a modern film with up to date attitudes, but I don't imagine it pushing forwards in any particularly striking way or upsetting any apple carts.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I forgot to add under “worst-case scenario,” I am afraid of a noticeable shift for the series to start feeling more American and less British. I’m not saying that Bond & company wouldn’t still be located in England, but the tone and feel could easily be lost without those right, subtle sensibilities. As a US citizen (and one currently very ashamed one, mind you, though I did nothing personally to contribute to the current mess), the last thing I want is for Bond to become Americanized.

    Yeah that's definitely a fear and I don't like the idea of it being 100% American controlled now, and I'm obviously aware of Wilson and Broccoli's roots, but they are citizens and have CBEs and are part of British culture. I hope maybe the new producer will be British, although I'm not sure there are many producers in the UK who make films on this scale. I've said that I don't want Nolan directing a Bond, but producing it; well, maybe.

  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,732
    I'd simplify the whole Amazon thing by being concise - the whole thing will live or die by 2 elements, if these are well chosen the franchise will be fine:

    1. The lead, obviously - a 'lowest common denominator' 007 is the biggest threat here
    2. The writer(s) - change is not a problem - QUALITY is.

    Best case: Amazon find good writers who understand the 007 franchise, have a passion for it, and let them write in an unhurried tempo (one film every 3yrs max) - thus not completely killing the legacy by 'doing a Disney(+)'. See Star Wars.

    Worst case: Amazon 'do a Disney(+)' and fill the Bond universe with banal characters written by Amazon cronies who are just told what to come up with by senior management.
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    Posts: 165
    I think the best case scenario is that Amazon take note of the clangers made by other studios and actually pay attention to what their multi-billion IP actually did right in the first place. It will almost certainly include spin-offs, but as I can ignore those completely I don't really care about them. BB/MGW hired poor writers, made divisive decisions, were slow moving poor communicators who made as many bad films as good. Amazon can make some early head-way into peoples good-will by ditching Purvis/Wade, keeping us up to date, and actually getting something made.

    The worst case scenario is that they are just as slow to do or announce anything as EoN were and all the doom-mongers with their overly sarcastic projections of what is to come will drag on for far too long :D Seriously though, being slow and a closed door is just going to build up too much resentment and fear over what is to come.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,364
    Best case scenario: Amazon has realized that Bond is at it's best as a medium volume play with films coming out very regularly and having a great variety of topics between them. One with Bond against some kind of gang; one with Bond in a warzone; one with Bond infiltrating the upper echelons of high society; and so on and so forth. Taking a risk now and again with the films, because you know the next one is around the corner and you'll go in a different direction anyway. Shot on location, but sticking with one or two foreign locations per film. A tight production team that makes sure the quality is kept up.

    Worst case scenario: They want to go even bigger, even more bloated, even more of a luxury event franchise. $400 million budgets every five years or so. The gaps in between filled with bad TV shows. Casting only based on name-recognition not on fit or skill. Big name directors who have no real clue about the series being brought in and whiplashing the films here and there and back again. Even less risk-taking to the point where the villain is completely neutered, because he can't seem like Bezos and it can't be any government or country where Amazon wants to do business.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 21 Posts: 17,104
    ImpertinentGoon wrote: »
    Even less risk-taking to the point where the villain is completely neutered, because he can't seem like Bezos

    Oh yikes, I hadn't considered that.

    Imagine a world where 20th Century Fox had somehow acquired Bond in the 90s: would Tomorrow Never Dies have happened?
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,676
    Best case, like everyone else has probably said more films, more often, with fresh ideas. Bigger productions budgets too I suppose.
    Certainly less legal uncertainty

    Worst case, they kill the franchise all together. Too many spin offs and dilute the prestige element of the Bond brand.

    Or they completely disregard what's come before
    I hate the thought that the series would feel less British.

    I have this terrible nightmare were the series becomes too self referential and ends up feeling like a Heineken advert. Or God forbid they try to explain that James Bond is a codename.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,364
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I have this terrible nightmare were the series becomes too self referential and ends up feeling like a Heineken advert. Or God forbid they try to explain that James Bond is a codename.

    Oh yikes, that's the part I hadn't considered.

    That they'd be obsessed with a unified Bond universe and then codify codename theory and spend a serious amount of time and effort to close the uncloseable plot holes in between all 25 films, that no one actually cares about. Instead of just taking the blessing of NTTD's ending providing them with the blankest of blank slates to just blast out a forward-looking banger of a film, they get bogged down in legislating 60 years of "lore".
  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 400
    I think it's dead. They took LOTR and made a non event out of an event. Same thing will happen to 007. I think it's neat that Babs knew this was coming, and put many messages in NTTD, which I re-watched yesterday night, foreshadowing it.
    Basically in NTTD, the kid is the franchise. Doudou is the franchise Mojo.
    They give us a crazy run of 25 films, and I thank them for it.
    My passion for this era will remain intact.
    I will "stream" the next era and forget about it once viewed.
    Bond home made knitted films just have been replaced with "content".
  • TopGearJB007TopGearJB007
    Posts: 627
    I think the series will become less British. Look at what happened to Formula 1. Americans bought it (I'm American with close British heritage, fyi) and it all became flamboyant, gaudy, and super bowl like.
  • shimplyshocking007shimplyshocking007
    edited February 21 Posts: 156
    Best case. We get the right actor who gets a good run at doing at least three quality films. An agreed script before shooting starts and a good idea of where the next film is going even as the new release comes out. None of this rewriting as they shoot. It seems to work for Mission Impossible. It hasn't worked for Bond.

    Worst case. A bland actor and ticking boxes to ensure they hit all their target demographics. Basically how Rings of Power has turned out.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,501
    BEST case: Amazon personnel involved with decision making actually seek out and listen to Barbara and Michael (and Gregg, too). They have the experience and the feel for what makes Bond Bond (in movies). If Amazon does that to enough of an extent ... we may get Bond movies that retain some of the essence of what has made them special, some of the Fleming that drives the stories, some of the charm and class and top quality filmmaking. With those elements in place, it could be enough for the new series of films (not even thinking of other product or "content" just now) to give us some enjoyable Bond films.

    WORST case: Amazon do not seek out or listen to Barbara or Michael or Gregg and make their decisions based on a) making money, and b) changing Bond too much, to be "fresh" and "different" in a stronger way than longtime fans will be comfortable with, and to throw in too many of the popular culture of the time catch phrases and other cultural tidbits and attitudes (when the movie is being made), trying to check too many points on "what makes a hit action film" and borrow too heavily from other series. They could very possibly not treat Bond as unique, or with respect. They could make a carnival of the process, having fans votes for the next Bond actor count to a certain degree (right now, Cavill is winning it seems), and could bring in writers whose work is so generic they could be writing for any TV show.

    I don't see a "happy" middle ground here for Bond. Not with Amazon doing the decisions. It will be either mostly okay, with encouraging good elements, and fun OR be utterly wrong for Bond.
  • fjdinardofjdinardo
    Posts: 2,038
    Best case is we get Bond films sooner and more often. Worst case they go the Disney route and oversaturate the market with so many Bond spin offs and such
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,369
    I personally have no interest in watching any spin-off, or TV content. At all.

    I'm perfectly happy with the one film every three years. I'm sure very few feel this way.

    For me it is then inevitable Bond will be oversaturated, over milked, whatever term you want to use.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,600
    Love this idea for a thread @DarthDimi

    Best Case Scenarios
    • We get lots of behind the scenes looks at the films and lots of extra promotional shorts and adverts
    • Bond films get on a regular rotation again without long stretches of no films
    • Bond is maintained and not trifled with. Amazon learns the error of their ways (see LOTR) and provides the type of character and film that is respectful of Fleming without the need to "check" boxes.
    • We see merchandise galore with many things that we fans have wanted for a while
    • We might even see more specials and events like the Music of Bond.
    • Could we see them explore the continuation novels for plots or ideas?

    Worst Case Scenarios
    • the need for "content" takes over the need for quality
    • spin-off series that add nothing to the Bond character and damage it and perhaps the ethos or canon of the character
    • Bond becomes more of a streaming vehicle with short theatrical runs.
    • CGI is used wherever possible and the practical stunts are minimized.
    • Bond is neutered or sanitized to such a state that he is vanilla. OR Bond is the colonist bad guy who doesn't get it and is reminded on screen of his error filled ways
    • the creative team isn't aware of Bond or wants to use Bond as a way to comment on the current state of the world. In short they will ignore Cubby's advice and make him political.

    I feel neutral about this currently. Once I see an announcement with the talent they hire to bring the next film to life, I will likely swing to either side. I am hopeful that some of my best case scenarios will become real! One can always wish.
  • HitchBondUSAHitchBondUSA USA
    edited February 21 Posts: 185
    I really like this thread showing both positive and negative possibilities
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,468
    HitchBondUSA wrote: »
    I really like this thread showing both positive and negative possibilities

    That was always my intention. 😉
  • km16km16
    Posts: 199
    If I were a betting man, I believe that the first outing is most definitely going to be a paint by numbers Bond film.

    - Gunbarrel at the start
    - Vocally big theme song
    - Classic egomaniacal villain
    - Some sort of lair
    - Henchman with a quirk
    - Car with gadgets

    After the Craig era though, would that necessarily be a bad thing?

    Worst case scenario, we get flooded with stuff. But I don't think they necessarily will. Maybe a handful of spin-offs and an animated thing or two if they were smart to cover period pieces. Maybe use animation to do faithful adaptations of the Fleming works.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 21 Posts: 17,104
    Samuel001 wrote: »
    I personally have no interest in watching any spin-off, or TV content. At all.

    I don't want them to dilute the brand, but I can't lie: if they made it I'd watch it.

    I can imagine they might start gently, some documentary films like the music of Bond doco or Everything or Nothing exploring the history of the series.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 2,128
    Positive: We'll get a Bond film sooner than we thought.
    Negative: We'll get a Bond film sooner than we thought.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 21 Posts: 6,456
    Best case: We get a good director who--for whatever reason--couldn't work with Broccoli and Wilson. Think Spielberg, Boyle, or god help us, neutered-Nolan (Tarantino is way too R for Bond/Amazon).

    Worst case: We get saturated with mediocre movies and spinoffs. TND all the way down.
  • Scaramanga1974Scaramanga1974
    Posts: 803
    Could be worse .Elon Musk might have bought the franchise .
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,468
    echo wrote: »
    Best case: We get a good director who--for whatever reason--couldn't work with Broccoli and Wilson. Think Spielberg, Boyle, or god help us, neutered-Nolan (Tarantino is way too R for Bond/Amazon).

    Worst case: We get saturated with mediocre movies and spinoffs. TND all the way down.

    The irony is that TND gave us a villain who is now, essentially, in control of Bond.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 582
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think there's any problem with starting a new thread Dimi, this is the biggest topic to happen to 007 in decades, one thread can't contain it all!
    FoxRox wrote: »
    What do I think will happen, as unbiased as I can be about it? I think we will see a very safe, uninspired film to get the next era started - something like The Force Awakens. Likely not offensively bad, but just massively underwhelming and lacking the soul and important touches we are used to seeing.

    Yeah, that's what I think too. It'll probably be quite good for what it is like Force Awakens was, but also like Force Awakens I fear it'll have that slight sheen of inauthenticity.
    Basically it'll likely be another GoldenEye coming after the hiatus: and GoldenEye is good, but it is a bit 'greatest hits'. I remember coming out of the cinema and thinking 'well, that was certainly a James Bond film' - it felt like an old Bond film and didn't particularly surprise in many ways.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    There might also be more “woke” elements that will rile up the masses. I personally find the term as a pejorative to typically indicate insecurity and bigotry, but I am definitely fearful Bond’s character will be sanitized even more than he has already been, if that counts as “woke” (namely his womanizing ways are definitely done for).

    I mean, people get upset about that no matter what (just look at how mortified some people were that there was a black woman!!! in the last film), but given the way things are going in the States, and Bezos' capitulation to their new king, I don't see the film going in a particularly progressive new direction. I think it's less likely than if Broccoli had stayed in charge, let's put it like that. Bond #7 will be a white guy.

    Notice how Naomie Harris as Moneypenny didn't get the reaction you're looking for. The Nomi character was supposed to be provocative. Also the fact that the actress who plays her has a very different personality than Naomie Harris. I'm surprised you don't refuse to read Ian Flemings' works and watch most of the Bond movies because of how "bigoted" they might be.
  • buddyoldchapbuddyoldchap Formerly known as JeremyBondon
    Posts: 246
    Best case:
    Period Bond starring A. Turner with all the ingredients and bells and whistles of classic Fleming Bond with an ost on par with TLD.

    Worst case:
    Woke Amazonified Bond starring ATJ or some other milk mouth.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 12:02am Posts: 17,104
    Daltonforyou wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't think there's any problem with starting a new thread Dimi, this is the biggest topic to happen to 007 in decades, one thread can't contain it all!
    FoxRox wrote: »
    What do I think will happen, as unbiased as I can be about it? I think we will see a very safe, uninspired film to get the next era started - something like The Force Awakens. Likely not offensively bad, but just massively underwhelming and lacking the soul and important touches we are used to seeing.

    Yeah, that's what I think too. It'll probably be quite good for what it is like Force Awakens was, but also like Force Awakens I fear it'll have that slight sheen of inauthenticity.
    Basically it'll likely be another GoldenEye coming after the hiatus: and GoldenEye is good, but it is a bit 'greatest hits'. I remember coming out of the cinema and thinking 'well, that was certainly a James Bond film' - it felt like an old Bond film and didn't particularly surprise in many ways.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    There might also be more “woke” elements that will rile up the masses. I personally find the term as a pejorative to typically indicate insecurity and bigotry, but I am definitely fearful Bond’s character will be sanitized even more than he has already been, if that counts as “woke” (namely his womanizing ways are definitely done for).

    I mean, people get upset about that no matter what (just look at how mortified some people were that there was a black woman!!! in the last film), but given the way things are going in the States, and Bezos' capitulation to their new king, I don't see the film going in a particularly progressive new direction. I think it's less likely than if Broccoli had stayed in charge, let's put it like that. Bond #7 will be a white guy.

    Notice how Naomie Harris as Moneypenny didn't get the reaction you're looking for. The Nomi character was supposed to be provocative. Also the fact that the actress who plays her has a very different personality than Naomie Harris. I'm surprised you don't refuse to read Ian Flemings' works and watch most of the Bond movies because of how "bigoted" they might be.

    Are you trying to get my attention? I've no idea who you are but you've replied to me in an aggressive fashion several times today for some reason.
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