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I was thinking of this wonderful story - The Sign of the Four - getting ready to read it yet again, when I realized how happy I am that bits and pieces of this will be fitting into the BBC Sherlock series. Maybe not much at all in the next few episodes, but with these brilliant writers and producers you never know. I am sure that Gatiss and Moffat will do their usual clever twists ... and we may only have a few hints here and there for now, but there will be some nods, I think, at least to characters that we find in The Sign of Four.
I am so looking forward to the new BBC episodes. And perhaps I am connecting this only due to
To those members and visitors reading this thread, if you enjoy Sherlock on BBC or even the version done in the U.S. called Elementary, you owe it to yourself to dip into the original stories. Truly, most of them are short, and so well worth your time. Doyle's writing is timeless and these characters live on so vibrantly still.
I'd personally love to hear from other MI6 folks who have read The Sign of the Four (even if you have not read it recently). I know we have several members who enjoy reading literature, including Doyle. Let me know your opinion and feelings about this special story in the Holmes canon. Remember, if you read through @Sandy's detailed and lovely review, it contains many spoilers. But if you have already read the story or don't care about spoilers, please do read our comments and reviews and feel free to let us know what you liked, what was memorable, or what you didn't like about this particular Holmes story. It is indeed one of my favorites. My review will be posted this weekend.
Aha! The hansom cab has just pulled up. Musn't tarry - come along, Watson - the game is afoot!
Cheers to all ~
4EverBakerStreet
This story is really a great adventure. I'll be working tomorrow (Sat.) so my review will be in sometime on Sunday.
I think they will leave out Toby, though.
Do think somewhere there will be
Catch the moment I spoke of here
I mean, I could play the video on this old computer, which is halting and stuttering, but I did not see that scene. Ah well; that's ok.
2. Mary's coat and bag.
3. After the trailer came out Amanda Abington twitted something about it, only understood by those who knew about the bike.
Ah ha! And first I thought
Thanks, Sandy. ;)
Ahhhh! The Sign of The Four! A grand adventure, teeming with atmosphere, mystery, and excitement!
@Sandy, you posed two great questions. Let me try to give my impressions. First let's have a look at Mary as portrayed in two of the more recent versions:
The lovely Mary Morstan, as portrayed in the traditionally styled BBC series with Jeremy Brett (which I still love):
Played by Jenny Seagrove
And in the current BBC show, Sherlock:
Played by Amanda Abbington
1) My opinion of the way Mary Morstan was adapted for the BBC series Sherlock:
First let me say I like this Mary very much. But I do feel that she is far different from the character in the story. The Mary from Doyle's story is presented as sincere, charming, and demure (a very appropriate word for her, I think) - yet strong and has clear, intuitive thinking. This gentle, sensitive young woman who led a sheltered life
The new version of Mary, that we first get to see in The Empty House, shares perhaps two strong qualities with Doyle's Mary: 1) She loves Watson, is drawn to him from the start, and 2) She has a sense of being her own person, with an inner strength.
But the new Mary is much stronger (hint: understatement) in the following attributes: cleverness, complexity, quickwittedness, physically unafraid, indeed intrepid, calculating, a huge risk taker, a liar, an amazing skill set that is well hidden, disarming and deceptive, and she has a quick cunning - she plans many steps ahead and can keep up to a large degree with Sherlock. Definitely not the same Mary.
I am fine with all of this because Mary, although described by Doyle as lovely inside and out, with integrity and charm, and a real warmth ... well, we do not ever read much more about her. She remains just as we were introduced to her and we do not see the wholeness of her character or complexity. She stays in the future ever in the background and is soon nonexistent in the stories.
The new Sherlock on BBC is so exciting, creative, fun, and exceedingly well acted, written, and produced that I can accept them making huge changes to characters and stories. What they have given me so far is immensely satisfying and intriguing. And that takes nothing away from my love of the original Doyle stories.
I love that the new Mary on the show is a dynamic, complex, charming, winning, intelligent, and such a layered character - we are just beginning to discover her more fully.
I am grateful she did not die yet. I do say yet, because in Doyle's stories, Watson becomes a widower. But Gatiss and Moffat are unafraid of changing things from the canon. I like the way they work. They do respect the canon, yet they bring a freshness to it that is full of surprises, fun, and thrills.
So as much as I love The Sign of The Four, or The Sign of Four - however you prefer the original story's title - I do love the new Sherlock considerably, including it being brave enough to boldly produce such a different Mary, and one who lives (at least for now). And talk about differences -
2) What I would have liked to have seen in the BBC show from the book, The Sign of The Four: ... Drat! I will finish this later .. my hansom cab is waiting! ;)
2) What I would have like to have seen in the BBC show "The Sign of Three" from the book, The Sign of The Four: Well, honestly, the key great scenes and heady atmosphere from the book are nonexistent in the TV show. There is no great Agra treasure; no treasure at all, really. Although, I loved the deft and subtle touch of spelling out AGRA as Mary's genuine initials on the flash drive.
Most of all, I really would have loved a boat race on the Thames - exciting, fun, and dangerous! I don't put it past the writers to put some kind of race on the Thames in a future episode (which as Bond fans, we may think is a nod towards Bond - and it might be a little depending on how they do it, if they ever do it - but it was in the original story first). I also would have liked to have had the twins, with the visit to Thaddeus' house, in all its Raj splendor, hookah and all ... I do not know how they could have added the twins, offhand. But the atmosphere was so splendid. It could have been changed to be a mysterious person(s) from Mary's past, something like that, or even another brief mention of a case Sherlock had already solved. Also some nod to the pearls would have been appreciated - if Mary wore pearls in the show I cannot remember it right this second.
I do not think they took much from the original story at all (but just bringing Mary Morstan into Sherlock and John's lives was huge, obviously), and if I could add a few things it would be those I have mentioned. I did laugh out loud at the dwarf shooting the blow gun dart (and that was all we had as a reference to the murderous little Tonga). We may get more nods to The Sign of Four in future episodes. I rather hope so.
We'd love to hear other viewers' thoughts on what they think about Mary - in BBC's the "Sign of Three" and in the original Doyle book. Also anything you'd like to say that you wish had been in the TV episode "The Sign of Three" from the book but was not put in.
Please take a moment to give us a comment or two - thanks!
Unfortunately Mary is a troublesome character to be adapted and most adaptations simply ignore her. The wonderful Granada series does a silly mess in my opinion with her! The most they get out of Watson is "What an attractive woman". Attractive woman indeed, Watson! You should be holding her close and telling her that you love her and you want to spend the rest of your days with her, you fool! Rant over #-o
Other adaptations give Mary the role of an antagonist, someone who is not happy with her husband going out on adventures with his detective friend. The thing is, even Doyle ended up not knowing what to do with her after a while and she sort of vanishes into thin air... But she is such as interesting character, independent, full of life, not a girl anymore, she knows how to take care of herself, she is smart and intuitive (to the point even Holmes thinks she could be most useful to the sort of work they do), and last but not least she is an ally to Holmes because she understands the strange bond between those two.
There are rather hilarious situations with her in the books, three of which I can't resist to share with you:
- calling her husband James, something that has left Holmesians in a state of confusion for over a century.
- in one of the stories Watson receives a message from Holmes asking for his cooperation on some trouble. She looks at him and tell him she's worried, he looks pale, he should go! It's like "you look sick, you should go solve some potentially dangerous crime with your maniac friend".
- Watson's comment that people in trouble run to her like moths to a light brings a smile upon my face.
In this sense, Mary Watson née Morstan is not so different in BBC Sherlock from the canon, right? Never mind she is an ex-assassin with an ugly past, basically a liar. But in essence she is still the independent, smart and intuitive woman who loves Watson above all else, truly understands and supports his friendship with Holmes, and a woman towards whom people in need are attracted. So while in theory, and due to my attachment to the original story, I should hate this new Mary the fact is that I truly adore her :\"> Of course I would have loved her to show up as a client, to have some connection to Major Sholto, to have a missing treasure! We did get Small trying to get his revenge on Sholto, but we didn't get the Sholto twins, and the revenge wasn't because of Agra. We did get Tonga though... something of the sort ;)
"Please go play with your friend, Dear, it will make you feel better." or ...
"James, or John, or whatever your name is ... Darling Husband, you will be revitalized by cavorting with your old comrade. You need to get your blood pumping with danger and death and dastardly deeds! Go on now. I shall go have tea with a friend. Go have fun." :D Ha! I do enjoy thinking of that.
I liked the Granada version just fine, it was pretty much what the story called for regarding Mary. It would have been nice of Watson was more forthcoming in his ardor for her, but I still liked it. Mary is not fully developed in the stories, but she does have some strength of character, yes. She is demure; Jenny Seagrove did fine with what little she was allowed to do.
I like the BBC's Mary by far the best, mainly because we finally get a multi-faceted character who feels real. Her love of John Watson is palpable. She does have her friend come to her for help, too, like the Mary in the stories (the nod towards The Man With a Twisted Lip).
I have to add that I have not seen the Mary Morstan character is many adaptations, so I cannot personally compare them all.
After too many pipes, far too many pots of tea, and a round of late night hansom cab racing, I am finally back on form ... here at last is my review for that truly magnificent book by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The Sign of The Four!
First, I want to give you my main appreciation for this particular Sherlock Holmes story. It is one of my very favorites, too. Actually, I can do it in 4 bullet points:
* exotic atmosphere!
* a grand adventure!
* a thrilling climatic chase!
* true romance!
But you know I can't leave it as just that. ;)
This story has everything I want in a Sherlock Holmes adventure. And it opens on a surprising and dark note, as @Sandy kindly provided us in full from her review at the top of this page: the infamous 7% solution of cocaine and Sherlock explaining that his mind rebels at being stagnant.
What I'd like to point out, to illuminate a bit something a tad different, is more about Watson's response. He acted as a great friend and the doctor was seemingly truly ahead of his time in warning Holmes. The use of cocaine back in the 1890's and early 1900's is interesting. So please indulge me a moment; I'd like to share this with you. I'd like to quote from one of my favorite essays on Holmes and Watson, written by author Loren D. Estleman in his fine introduction entitled,"On the Significance of Boswells," from my Bantam Classics paperback edition of a collection of Holmes stories:
"In his objection to this habit, Watson was ahead of his time, for with the drug only six years on the market the advertising industry stressed wildly the curative properties of a substance then obtainable over the counter in everything from its pure uncut state to Coca-Cola. Here Watson anticipates later findings concerning its effect on brain tissue and threat of addiction, and at a time when conservatives in the medical community were merely counseled caution, he is observed urging his friend to abandon the practice. By the time of 'The Adventure of the Missing Three-Quarter,' he will succeed, but at this point, disturbingly, the needle represents Holmes refuge from the loneliness of his condition. Today, when narcotics appear to threaten every aspect of our society, these passages are often deleted from children's editions of Four - a mistake, in view of Watson's strong arguments against indulgence."
I do recommend reading this entire lovely introduction; it is so well written.
Besides the stunning scene of Holmes shooting up, and Watson's fierce objections, the story then moves on subtly and sublimely, with Holmes showing his unique gift for deduction regarding Watson's watch, and the story gathers steam and the reader's interest, but where is this story heading? Then along comes Mary Morstan to Baker Street and lays out her dilemma for Holmes: the game is on! And a twisting, unraveling, far more sinister than first appears "game" it truly is. Not merely a missing father or some mysterious and valuable gift being secretly given every year - no, it cuts deeper ... this story is soon steeped in ugly death, fantastically bizarre characters, teeming atmosphere, danger, false leads, uncommon bravery, and a tale of long suffering sprinkled with betrayal and bloody killings. And we have simultaneous with all of this grand drama, mystery, and action (again, Doyle is truly amazing at all of these divergent and fascinating things he writes so skillfully into this book!) the unexpected and totally heartfelt story of Watson falling in love, for real, with all its Victorian trappings and depth of genuine love.
Bizarre and deadly, with a pulse-pounding final chase ... ah, The Sign of The Four, it has everything, my friends. Everything. Case closed.
Here is what I feel about each of our categories in this big, colorful, heady Holmes adventure:
Holmes – Outstanding, in some of his best form, for this case tests him and he comes through brilliantly.
Watson – A more major character in this one; we see depths and charm in this Watson, and we root for him wildly as he shows his mettle and his willingness to give immediate action, in dire circumstances, as well as love. Watson is of two minds in this story and is a real standout.
Villain – Ah, villain/villains. One is disabled, has suffered long, yet was complicit in deaths and theft and criminal acts. Yet he keeps his word and shows strength and strong loyalty . .. we feel for him. That is Mr. Jonathan Small, no ordinary one-legged pirate. Doyle explains enough so that we follow the reasons for what Small does. He is a fine character and well rounded. We also have Major Sholto, a grasping and greedy, far more easily disliked villain. The choices he made in life were horrible, and evil, and he throws his sons into the consequences of his bloody schemes, which also draw Mary Morstan in. We also have Tonga, not a well developed character really. I think Doyle was correct that we did not need to know more about Tonga; he serves his aiding/abetting and murderous purpose in this story.
Supporting characters – Mary Morstan! The lovely, demure yet strong 27 year old woman whom Watson falls truly in love with. Although having had great sadness in her life and living a sheltered life, she portrays inner strength, courage, clarity, and wits. She feels very real, and I love this character. I am so glad Doyle brought her into Watson's life; she adds an important dimension to Watson, making him even more real for us. Also DI Athelney Jones from Scotland Yard, who is bumbling and pretentious and provides humor yet also really helps Holmes. Thadeus Sholto, a hypochondriac and strange, yet his morals are far better than his brother or father. Other minor colorful characters make this a rich brew.
Atmosphere – 5 out of 5 stars! This one has the most atmosphere for me, even more than Hound ... a mysterious gift given, a cryptic note ("the sign of four"), London in all its chilly and dark moods, late night hansom cab rides, a strange house in the country that has its yard eerily dug up everywhere and inhabited by mysterious characters; India fom its Raj days; the lower class working area of shipyards; the wonderful Baker Street irregulars scampering everywhere trying to help Holmes find the all important boat, the Aurora; a dog with an unerring sense of smell that Holmes has used before; a one-legged criminal and his pygmy sized assistant who kills by poison darts from a blow gun - topped with a thrilling chase on the Thames that you can feel in your bones as you read it ... top class marks for atmosphere, dear Sir Conan Doyle.
Suspense – Great, grand suspense that builds superbly!
Violence – It is a bloody, murderous tale; there is cruelty and violence, oh yes.
Humour – The sparkling addition of Watson falling in love for real in the midst of this swirling dark action-packed mystery is priceless. A pompous inspector with his "theories." Toby sitting on the barrell. Lovely and well placed humor, yes.
Cleverness – Very clever, Mr. Holmes! And clever, Mr. Small. A good deal of cunning, twists, and cleverness in this case.
Case – Great, fantastic, and surprisingly believable. And that believability is its strength. It could have been a mess, trying to put all of these wildly different things in one story, but Doyle succeeds brilliantly. He doesn't make a false step in this one.
Doyle – This is his masterpiece for me, with two others (A Study in Scarlet and The Hound of the Baskervilles) coming close. But he has never written better, more colorful yet concisely, drawn characters we believe in and a thrilling tale we are more and more drawn into.
Final verdict – Finest kind of Holmes adventure. I cannot recommend this one highly enough. I know several folks have said, if you only read one Sherlock Holmes story make it be The Hound of the Baskervilles, but given that constraint (just one? oh no!), I would choose The Sign of The Four.
If you have not read it yet, please grab a copy and when you have a long weekend just indulge yourself. You are in for the most thrilling ride, with Mr. Sherlock Holmes and his great friend and comrade, Dr. John Watson.
I do love The Sign of Four/The Sign of The Four. A really grand adventure, isn't it?
Posting this on the BBC Sherlock thread and here, as it is a symposium about comparing the tv show to the original Doyle stories, this coming April. Sounds really interesting! In London in April; I so wish I could attend!
Well, I just looked at the Baker Street Babes website; haven't been on in a while.
And I found a notice about an upcoming seminar at the University of Central London (if you are in London, lucky you!). The following webpage has links in it so you can go directly to the symposium, book a ticket (free), read more info about the university, etc.
The link is: http://bakerstreetbabes.com/new-directions-in-sherlock-a-sherlock-conference-on-april-11th/. Essentially, it says:
*****
CFP: New Directions in Sherlock
Sherlock Holmes: Past and Present
Friday, April 11, 2014 from 10:00 AM to 7:00 PM (BST)
Department of English, UCL
Heralded by The Telegraph as a ‘global phenomenon,’ the BBC Sherlock is now one of the most commercially and critically successful series of all time. This one-day symposium focuses on the series to look back at its roots in Conan Doyle’s stories, to situate it in light of contemporaneous adaptations and pastiches, and to examine its treatment of a range of issues including race, gender, terrorism, and international relations. The fruits of this symposium will lead to the publication of a special journal issue dedicated to the series.
In this symposium, we will screen His Last Vow, attend presentations, and discuss Sherlock Holmes, the BBC Sherlock, and aspects of neo-Victorian detective writing.
*****
You can submit an abstract and get involved. It is free to the public to attend.
I do wish I could go! Here is a link to a map for it: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/maps
Here's my first effort in this series:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/037/f/3/a_drunken_looking_groom_by_bradymajor-d75dnq2.jpg
It's a recreation of this Paget illustration from A Scandal in Bohemia:
http://public.bn1303.livefilestore.com/y2pG4RVrUyAAH3OyUPy9W9sW18Lke3jhT6ECjeq4NicNvQh8WFX5vAq_MdKUaNJ8u871M3MSXf1nM67cBGFpX09INvoFzn9UClyBhmM-BSkdBg/15.jpg?rdrts=66355629
"It was close upon four before the door opened, and a drunken-looking groom, ill-kempt and side-whiskered, with an inflamed face and disreputable clothes, walked into the room. Accustomed as I was to my friend’s amazing powers in the use of disguises, I had to look three times before I was certain that it was indeed he. With a nod he vanished into the bedroom, whence he emerged in five minutes tweed-suited and respectable, as of old. Putting his hands into his pockets, he stretched out his legs in front of the fire and laughed heartily for some minutes."
-Watson's narration from A Scandal in Bohemia
Holmes is in disguise as a drunken groom, the first moment we get to see his talent for immersing himself into a character. It was such an iconic Holmes moment and beautiful illustration, so I knew I would adapt that first, especially considering Bohemia was the first Holmes story I read. I tried to keep very closely with the original, but added some of my own style in there as well. I'm not the best at shading, but I did the best I could with adapting the lighting of the original illustration in my recreation. I had tons of fun with this, and can't wait to recreate more iconic Holmes moments from the canon in the GMD style. I hope you enjoy, and I would love feedback.
I cannot believe I have not seen all of The Great Mouse Detective ... I will have to do something about that soon! I'm sure I'd love it.
I hope you continue with this series, Brady; thanks for sharing with us.
As teased way back earlier in the thread, prior to publication, the new title, White Fire, is rife with Holmes material
This book is the 13th of the Pendergast novels. Readers have been comparing Pendergast to Holmes for a long time. I think the writers finally decided to pick up on this sentiment, and develop it in the new novel.
The White Fire plot is rooted in an historic lunch meeting between Conan Doyle and Oliver Wilde. It's postulated that something that Wilde secretly revealed to Conan Doyle at this meeting, so schocked the Holmes writer, that he wrote a never-published Holmes story based on the Wilde revelations.
Its speculated that Conan Doyle considered the subject matter to be too terrifying to be published.
Pendergast is convinced that the grisly tale that Wilde heard, while traveling on a U.S. lecture tour, and recounted to Conan Doyle, ties in with current day murder and mayhem that Pendergast is investigating.
Pendergast travels to London to meet with a Baker Street Irregular colleague from Oxford days.
Pendergast is determined to find the missing Holmes story, the existence of which has confounded the Irregulars for decades.
Pendergast is sure the story exists, but that Conan Doyle secreted it away somewhere.
Pendergast even says at one point to his pal from the Irregulars, that "the game is afoot."
Great read. There is much discussion of Conan Doyle and his life and works.
By the way, I think you have read Holmes stories before. Do you remember The Sign of Four? I'd like to get other people's impressions of the story, even just a brief statement if they really liked it a lot or just a little. (I cannot imagine a Holmes fan not enjoying this one.)
Like Holmes he has particular tastes in music etc. Eccentric, somewhat of a loner, although he does like people, his chosen friends mainly, but he works best alone as others can't keep up with his methods.
I am not sure that the authors intended to model their character on Holmes. It just happened that they wrote a similar character and readers made the comparison.
Pendergast is a sort of FBI agent at large. He investigates what he chooses to investigate, much like Holmes. The bureau lets him do what he wants. He also has immense personal wealth that he puts to good use.
Re Sign of Four. I will re-visit that and post comments. Yes, at one time or another I am sure I have read all the Holmes stories. I have the whole collection on my shelf, but its been so long. I did most of the reading as a teen. So any re-reads are very fresh.
Another note re White Fire. Pendergast is convinced that the Wilde story was impetus for Conan Doyles Hound of the Baskervilles, and that parts of the Wilde story are actually secretly included in the Hound of the Baskervilles.
I still have about a 100 pages to read, so none of the mysteries have been answered yet.
It would be great if you could - after finishing your current book - take another look at The Sign of Four. It is not a long read, and I'd love to have your opinion, especially as it has been a while since you read it. You could give us a fresh take on it; what you liked or didn't.
Cheers!
In the meanwhile I have ordered The Beekeeper's Apprentice by Laurie R. King which came highly recommended as one of the best "continuation" Holmes. I will keep you updated on that.
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/045/c/a/holmes_lashed_furiously_by_bradymajor-d76ga9g.jpg
It is a recreation in the combined styles of my own personal art and that of The Great Mouse Detective animated film, of this classic Sidney Paget illustration from the Sherlock Holmes story The Speckled Band:
http://public.bn1303.livefilestore.com/y2pY_-E1YLCO3O8QepPvYSQoe1kmB2KOLw4ufrFts4chmqywfHEiJkREJdxArk_92W7QLQ1-7a-ntpBOAeEAuiaLREEEHyZ_HOtiYm5iKy-U5E/16.jpg?rdrts=67037438
The scene it brings to life:
"For half an hour I sat with straining ears. Then suddenly another sound became audible–a very gentle, soothing sound, like that of a small jet of steam escaping continually from a kettle. The instant that we heard it, Holmes sprang from the bed, struck a match, and lashed furiously with his cane at the bell-pull."
-Dr. Watson [narration]