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craig is (a little bit) overrated

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  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i understand it's a film that is not for everyone.... maybe in time, it'll find it's place (like MR, and DAD seem to be doing nowadays)... but there were literal moments in that film, where i sat there, and my jaw dropped in amazement - the brilliance in the way (for me) that some scenes were crafted - from direction, to editing, to sound/score - it left me without words... as someone who wishes to direct, and loves the visual aspect of a well blocked scene, I was in heaven....... but the scenes i am talking about: is the one scene you mentioned, where Bond and Greene confront each other at the opera - the action intercut with the Opera and it's music - wow...... and the other scene is Bond and Camille walking out of the desert - Arnold's music in that scene juxtaposed to the action on screen was amazing to me.... proper words can't describe how i feel about those 2 scenes in particular
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I, too, liked the opera scene and would have liked it to go on longer; and the desert scene. Well done.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I thought the opera scene was handled very well, and ended with a great failed interrogation.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I too agree that DC has not saved the franchise, after DAD I always expected a different product like FYEO after MR. So in that sense I never saw a DAD2 on the cards. In that sense I missed Brosnans possible swansong before the "reboot" of 007 with DC which has so far gicven us 3/4 of a decent movie. Lets hope that Bond23 brings us something better otherwise I would think that EON has wasted such a talented actor on their pretentious movies. All of course my humble opinion.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    DarthDimi wrote:
    forgotmyusername wrote:
    Just get rid of drench and he'll have more room to grow as Bond not as her little pet puppy, which winds me up. Her character is too much need her to fade in the background and let our man run free. And then we get a plot summary for the new film and it's all to do with M aaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

    Uhm, Judy Dench doesn't write her plot or lines for the Bond films... Why would getting rid of her solve your issues with M's relationship to Bond? They could get rid of Dench's M only to introduce a new actor/actress patronising Bond in the same manner we saw in the previous two films. It wouldn't change a thing. If, on the other hand, they'd let Dench's M pull off a couple of scenes like we got in the old days with the great Bernard Lee, she might win all of us over again. I still applaud the choice to cast her: I think she's an amazing actress and what I saw of her and Bond in GE cries for superlatives I have yet to acquaint myself to. It so happens that the writers decided to make her motherly lecture Bond in several of the next Bond films but to project all hatred towards these script decisions on her as an actress seems most unfair to me. This is what I keep throwing back at the Brosnan haters when they blame him for the scripts of his films. It makes no sense.

    The only reason I'd have for writing Dench off as M in SF is age. At 77, she's struggling to keep up with the fitness I expect from the head of MI6. Otherwise though, I'd plead for as many more returns as she can handle, provided that the screenwriters can finally abandon that cringeworthy notion of an older, female M having to treat Bond as a Freudian subject to her maternal teachings.

    i agree with these comments. during the brosnan era dench brought a touch of class to an otherwise shoddy cast. now she seems a little redundant. the relationship has become too personal. bond is too detached for these silly workplace games. a male M always had its freudian dimension as well tho, not least because bond is an orphan and bernard lee filled that father figure role.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I also agree on the M thing. In TWINE it was original, but in the craig films it seems like they're trying to shove her in when she doesn't need to be there. I hate the whole mother idea of it and for skyfall I was hoping for a film where M sat back and let bond get on with it, then I find out that its a film FOCUSED on bond and Ms relationship, *yawn*
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    yeah. sounds VERY familiar. serious danger of a twine retread.
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    HASEROT wrote:
    that is why i love the direction in that movie.... say what u want about the way the action was handled - fine, i can understand that.. but i thought Forster brought a level of artistic flair to the direction, color, and scope of the film that i hadn't seen since Peter Hunt... i consider QOS one of the better directed Bond films (if the action wasn't so frenetic)... it's a film that has it own unique look, feel, and style..... and heaven forbid a director try to leave his own creative stamp on a film lol.

    I have been saying this since its release. Its a film to be appreciated on an aesthetic level.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I don't feel Craig is overrated, he was a welcome relief after Brosnan left the series, added a bit of reality and steel to the role again just as Dalton did in 1987

    I was initially skeptical about the choice of him as 007 and when I first saw Royale in theaters for any and all reasons I have previous stated but if you can look beyond that he does possess certain qualities and there's a definite Fleming like edge to him when on screen sometimes, not the best Bond we ever saw, maybe one day if he stays long enough in the role he could move a bit closer but for now I'm kind of content to have him as Agent 007, next year could be a defining moment for the actor
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    actonsteve wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    that is why i love the direction in that movie.... say what u want about the way the action was handled - fine, i can understand that.. but i thought Forster brought a level of artistic flair to the direction, color, and scope of the film that i hadn't seen since Peter Hunt... i consider QOS one of the better directed Bond films (if the action wasn't so frenetic)... it's a film that has it own unique look, feel, and style..... and heaven forbid a director try to leave his own creative stamp on a film lol.

    I have been saying this since its release. Its a film to be appreciated on an aesthetic level.
    Quite. Quantum of Solace is for sure a pretty film to look at. But looks can be deceptive. ;)
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    I personally think that Craig is quite good. His Bond films, however.... I'll just leave it at "they could have been better". Hopefully Skyfall will be.
  • FromCanadaWithLoveFromCanadaWithLove Canada
    Posts: 612
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    I personally think that Craig is quite good. His Bond films, however.... I'll just leave it at "they could have been better". Hopefully Skyfall will be.

    I actually agree with this. I think Casino wasn't written with him in mind, and QoS wasn't written properly.

    Craig was fantastic in Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, so if the writers could shape his dialogue more to that style in acting, I'd be very happy. I think I'm a minority when I say that I prefer writers shape the dialogue to the actors, rather than the original novel character (within reason).
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I have never been a big fan of Daniel Craig as an actor before he became Bond or after but you can't take away the facts that he has really thrown himself into the part, the masses seem to love him in the role and the series is definitley in good health, so although he's not quite my cup of tea, I have no paticular problems with him in the role it is purely personal preference! I am quite happy for him to continue playing Bond for a long time.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    identigraph wrote:
    I have never been a big fan of Daniel Craig as an actor before he became Bond or after but you can't take away the facts that he has really thrown himself into the part, the masses seem to love him in the role and the series is definitley in good health, so although he's not quite my cup of tea, I have no paticular problems with him in the role it is purely personal preference! I am quite happy for him to continue playing Bond for a long time.

    An honest post. Nice to read. :-)
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I think Craig is very aware of the limitations of his Bond performances so far and that if you asked him personally he'd say he wasn't 100% happy with either QoS or even CR. This is obvious from his comments in the press about how he wants to make the perfect Bond. I think there were great dialogue scenes in CR that showed Craig has the potential to be amongst the best, and we all sincerely hope that Skyfall offers him the chance to really deliver the top-notch performance that he is capable of. A bit of humour would help. Connery and Dalton both did humour while maintaining a sense of danger. That is something Craig hasn't been able to do yet, mainly because the scripts haven't been up to scratch. Here is hoping for something better in 2012.

    Obviously, having said all this, Craig is infinitely better than Brozza. Just had to mention that.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Getafix wrote:
    Obviously, having said all this, Craig is infinitely better than Brozza. Just had to mention that.

    Which is pure personal taste.

    I prefer Connery, Moore & Brosnan before Craig. But I admit he could be better than Dalton if Bond23 is decent enough. Otherwise he'll end up in my list as that pretentious twat that tried to make art instead of actioners. (IMHO :-* )
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I don't think he's the best but I don't think he's overrated. He ties for third (along with Dalton) in my rank of the best Bonds. I'm hopeing Skyfall will be alittle more classic Bond then this brute Bond we've had these past two movies.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Obviously, having said all this, Craig is infinitely better than Brozza. Just had to mention that.

    Which is pure personal taste.

    I prefer Connery, Moore & Brosnan before Craig. But I admit he could be better than Dalton if Bond23 is decent enough. Otherwise he'll end up in my list as that pretentious twat that tried to make art instead of actioners. (IMHO :-* )

    I think that description describes Marc Forster more than Craig.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    BAIN123 wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Obviously, having said all this, Craig is infinitely better than Brozza. Just had to mention that.

    Which is pure personal taste.

    I prefer Connery, Moore & Brosnan before Craig. But I admit he could be better than Dalton if Bond23 is decent enough. Otherwise he'll end up in my list as that pretentious twat that tried to make art instead of actioners. (IMHO :-* )

    I think that description describes Marc Forster more than Craig.

    Correct but Craig admitted that he did rewrite QoS with Forster so he can be blamed as well for that poor effort.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited January 2012 Posts: 13,355
    The script was 'poor' to begin with. Craig more than likely made it better than it was to begin with.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    It's interesting to note that both DAD and QoS had quite heavy re-writes during the production process.

    *sorry wrong thread
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited January 2012 Posts: 13,355
    BAIN123 wrote:
    It's interesting to note that both DAD and QoS had quite heavy re-writes during the production process.

    The difference is Die Another Day was constantly changing though, and it was never, even as shooting got underway, agreed to be one thing or another.

    For better or worse, at least Quantum Of Solace had a good idea of what it wanted to try and be. The execution was just very off.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    It's interesting to note that both DAD and QoS had quite heavy re-writes during the production process.

    The difference is Die Another Day was constantly changing though, and it was never, even as shooting got underway, agreed to be one thing or another.

    For better or worse, at least Quantum Of Solace had a good idea of what it wanted to try and be. The execution was just very off.

    Agreed. Good point.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I would also add, Die Another Day had three years to write the script, Quantum Of Solace only two. The problem was Tamahori came on board and pushed the script in every direction you could imagine which resulted in one big mess and a film lacking any real identity, something I would argue Quantum Of Solace has.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I would also add, Die Another Day had three years to write the script, Quantum Of Solace only two. The problem was Tamahori came on board and pushed the script in every direction you could imagine which resulted in one big mess and a film lacking any real identity, something I would argue Quantum Of Solace has.

    Yes indeed it has the identity of that particular girlfriend among the lot of former girlfriend you wouldn't mind never seeing again. And even that is way too soon.

    :D
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    IMO QOS= > DAD, DAF, AVTAK, MWTGG. In other words, while far from great, defo not the disaster alot of posters have claimed. Glad to hear that the film has grown on people over time though, both on this site and elsewhere.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    LeChiffre wrote:
    IMO QOS= > DAD, DAF, AVTAK, MWTGG. In other words, while far from great, defo not the disaster alot of posters have claimed. Glad to hear that the film has grown on people over time though, both on this site and elsewhere.

    Indeed, I am a proud member of the reformed QoS club! We just got buttons in yesterday. ;)
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    LeChiffre wrote:
    IMO QOS= > DAD, DAF, AVTAK, MWTGG.

    DAD perhaps, but all the others had John Barry. That gives them an edge by default.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I don't mean this as a heavy criticism of DC, as I like him as Bond and am looking forward to SF, but is it possible that he has been slightly over-hyped? I saw The Girl With The Dragon Tatoo last night and was underwhelmed. I didn't like the book either, which doesn't help, but I did feel DC is just a little dull. He seems to lack a little spark - charisma perhaps - that would make him truly excellent. His Bond is solid and has a nice mix of danger and physicality but I felt with both CR and QoS that something was missing. I put it down to the stories and the lack of humour, but now wonder if it wasn't DC himself? I'm almost beginning to feel he resembles Lazenby - looks good, convinces with the physical stuff, has a definite strong screen presence but is ultimately a little bit ome dimensional. Not bad, so much as not as good as he could be.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Many people felt that during the Dalton tenure, I.e. looked the part, had that certain something, ticked most of the boxes but still not the finish article. They remind me a lot of each other sometimes. I don't care what Craig does outside of Bond, haven't seen any recent releases, and have no intention either, strictly concentrating on his Bond work, what other projects he gets involved in generate little interest

    Has Craig been over hyped, when did this happen, I didn't see any exaggerations, he's a half decent James Bond and an improvement on what came before but still nowhere near the best we ever saw, or may even see, that's about the long and the short of it

    Craig is chalk and cheese from Lazenby by the way, the two Bonds are poles apart for me
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