What do you consider the most dire moment in a Bond film?

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  • edited March 2020 Posts: 11,425
    Agent 47 I couldn't disagree more. I thought the Q scene was brilliant in Skyfall. A more realistic and gritty Bond and a nice put down of the gadget laden films, however entertaining at the time, of a bygone era.

    And then the next film he has an exploding watch, rocket booster car and ejector seat with parachute.

    But seriously, Q hands over a gun in the National Gallery? All so that Mendes can shoe horn in more slap around the face symbolism with the Fighting Temeraire.

    I also really dislike the use of the Tennison poem in SF. So clumsy. What should have been conveyed by plot and character is instead banged over our heads like an undergraduate seminar.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Gosh.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Most dire moments for me would be all of the scenes with Jaws in MR.
    Even if he quickly becomes an over the top cartoon character in TSWLM, he's still a worthy adversary in that film.
    In MR he's just a fool, displaying little to no menace. The flapping of arms when his parachute fails to deploy, the boat chase where he goes over the waterfall, crashing into the cable car station and falling in love. #-o :-w
    Then changing sides and becoming an ally. Please.
    I love Richard Kiel and he's surely one of the most memorable villains and was a truly lovely man. But Jaws in MR was a series low for me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Benny wrote: »
    Most dire moments for me would be all of the scenes with Jaws in MR.
    Even if he quickly becomes an over the top cartoon character in TSWLM, he's still a worthy adversary in that film.
    In MR he's just a fool, displaying little to no menace. The flapping of arms when his parachute fails to deploy, the boat chase where he goes over the waterfall, crashing into the cable car station and falling in love. #-o :-w
    Then changing sides and becoming an ally. Please.
    I love Richard Kiel and he's surely one of the most memorable villains and was a truly lovely man. But Jaws in MR was a series low for me.

    Don't forget when he's in costume and gives up going after Manuela, and joins in with the dancing Carnaval-goers :P

    I actually didn't mind Jaws in Moonraker. Being a menacing, unkillable henchman in both films to him finally turning on Drax and helping Bond in the end. and then still surviving the space station, I don't really know why, but Jaws is just part of the fun of these films, and to a certain extent just require us to sit back and enjoy the ride, and I don't mind any of it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I haven't watched MR for ages but isn't there a scene where he's in costume in an empty alleyway. That's very menacing.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Getafix wrote: »
    I haven't watched MR for ages but isn't there a scene where he's in costume in an empty alleyway. That's very menacing.

    That's the scene I referenced one post up.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Getafix wrote: »

    I also really dislike the use of the Tennison poem in SF. So clumsy. What should have been conveyed by plot and character is instead banged over our heads like an undergraduate seminar.

    +1. I expressed this back when the film came out and other posters on another site thought I was out of my mind.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »

    I also really dislike the use of the Tennison poem in SF. So clumsy. What should have been conveyed by plot and character is instead banged over our heads like an undergraduate seminar.

    +1. I expressed this back when the film came out and other posters on another site thought I was out of my mind.

    We're on the same page. I think some viewers with perhaps limited exposure to serious cinema or culture more generally took these elements in SF as a sign of sophisticated filmmaking whereas they're clearly quite the opposite.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Getafix wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »

    I also really dislike the use of the Tennison poem in SF. So clumsy. What should have been conveyed by plot and character is instead banged over our heads like an undergraduate seminar.

    +1. I expressed this back when the film came out and other posters on another site thought I was out of my mind.

    We're on the same page. I think some viewers with perhaps limited exposure to serious cinema or culture more generally took these elements in SF as a sign of sophisticated filmmaking whereas they're clearly quite the opposite.

    Made M look incompetent once again, too.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    Getafix wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »

    I also really dislike the use of the Tennison poem in SF. So clumsy. What should have been conveyed by plot and character is instead banged over our heads like an undergraduate seminar.

    +1. I expressed this back when the film came out and other posters on another site thought I was out of my mind.

    We're on the same page. I think some viewers with perhaps limited exposure to serious cinema or culture more generally took these elements in SF as a sign of sophisticated filmmaking whereas they're clearly quite the opposite.

    Made M look incompetent once again, too.

    Yup. Hey M. Silva's coming to kill you. Let's just sit here and recite poetry.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited September 2021 Posts: 2,641
    It's always tough to say anything over the kite surfing the tsunami.
    The idea is stupid, the equation is terrible (it looked dated in 2002) and the fact that they played the Bond theme over it, is unbelievable and makes it worse, it was like them saying how cool is this

    But with all that being said, the slide whistle over the barrel roll will forever be the worse moment. For me it's because the CGI kite surfing was never going to look good but this is one of if not one of the greatest stunts ever done in the history of cinema and somehow they managed to shoot it down unbelievably trying to go for a cheap gag which isn't funny. Sums up Sir Roger's tenure as Bond for me.
    I always think it was a mistake to have Sheriff Pepper in the car as well, when they cut back to him and he's rolling round in the car and overacting, it just spoils it a bit for me. They should have Sir Roger just looking cool and unfazed like it was just another day on the job for Bond
    The barrel roll is one of the greatest moments in cinema history and shouldn't have been marred by a mistimed gag
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    +1, no, +1,000,000
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    cwl007 wrote: »
    +1, no, +1,000,000

    Hahaha
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 11,425
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It's always tough to say anything over the kite surfing the tsunami.
    The idea is stupid, the equation is terrible (it looked dated in 2002) and the fact that they played the Bond film over it, is unbelievable and makes it worse, it was like them saying how cool is this

    But with all that being said, the slide whistle over the barrel roll will forever be the worse moment. For me it's because the CGI kite surfing was never going to look good but this is one of if not one of the greatest stunts ever done in the history of cinema and somehow they managed to shoot it down unbelievably trying to go for a cheap gag which isn't funny. Sums up Sir Roger's tenure as Bond for me.
    I always think it was a mistake to have Sheriff Pepper in the car as well, when they cut back to him and he's rolling round in the car and overacting, it just spoils it a bit for me. They should have Sir Roger just looking cool and unfazed like it was just another day on the job for Bond
    The barrel roll is one of the greatest moments in cinema history and shouldn't have been marred by a mistimed gag

    Don't forget the Beach Boys in AVTAK. Bond should basically stay clear of kite surfing and snow boarding. Just not Bondian.

    The whole PTS in AVTAK is pretty dire actually.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Q handing Bond that bag of tricks in LTK, it is just laughable considering this is supposed to be a proper Fleming flavoured revenge entry.

    I've come to the conclusion although I quite like watching this film it is one of the most uneven toned entries of the series.

    QOS definitely nailed this rogue Bond idea so much better and without coming across like a farce.
  • Posts: 787
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    May look bad as an adult but that windsurfing scene from DAD was amazing as a kid. I remember thinking "how are they going to top this"

    I also remember brainstorming ideas, thinking they could have a building collapse while Bond jumps out and basically snowboards (without snow, obviously) down the falling skyscraper. That would top it...

    Thank god children don't have a say in these movies. Still, DAD was amazing at 13.

    From my point of view: I remember seeing it when it came out (I would have been a bit older than you) and relative to other movies at the time, and being relatively young, I still thought, "man, that looks bad."

    To this day it just rips me right out of the movie every time I see it.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Q handing Bond that bag of tricks in LTK, it is just laughable considering this is supposed to be a proper Fleming flavoured revenge entry.

    I've come to the conclusion although I quite like watching this film it is one of the most uneven toned entries of the series.

    QOS definitely nailed this rogue Bond idea so much better and without coming across like a farce.

    Seems a bit exaggerated to call the film a farce simply because Q shows with some gadgets and a few good quips.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 7,431
    Getafix wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It's always tough to say anything over the kite surfing the tsunami.
    The idea is stupid, the equation is terrible (it looked dated in 2002) and the fact that they played the Bond film over it, is unbelievable and makes it worse, it was like them saying how cool is this

    But with all that being said, the slide whistle over the barrel roll will forever be the worse moment. For me it's because the CGI kite surfing was never going to look good but this is one of if not one of the greatest stunts ever done in the history of cinema and somehow they managed to shoot it down unbelievably trying to go for a cheap gag which isn't funny. Sums up Sir Roger's tenure as Bond for me.
    I always think it was a mistake to have Sheriff Pepper in the car as well, when they cut back to him and he's rolling round in the car and overacting, it just spoils it a bit for me. They should have Sir Roger just looking cool and unfazed like it was just another day on the job for Bond
    The barrel roll is one of the greatest moments in cinema history and shouldn't have been marred by a mistimed gag

    Don't forget the Beach Boys in AVTAK. Bond should basically stay clear of kite surfing and snow boarding. Just not Bondian.

    The whole PTS in AVTAK is pretty dire actually.

    In Empires Bond magazine in the latest issue, Director John Glen says it was his idea to put the Beach Boys song over the snowboarding scene!
    I like this pts, apart from that!
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    jobo wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Q handing Bond that bag of tricks in LTK, it is just laughable considering this is supposed to be a proper Fleming flavoured revenge entry.

    I've come to the conclusion although I quite like watching this film it is one of the most uneven toned entries of the series.

    QOS definitely nailed this rogue Bond idea so much better and without coming across like a farce.

    Seems a bit exaggerated to call the film a farce simply because Q shows with some gadgets and a few good quips.

    I don't think they are good quips, it is like they are trying to put Moore type humour and scenario into a film that is supposed to Bond out for revenge.

    At that point it does turn it into a farce, LTK had stuck to its convictions rather than trying to remind people it was a Bond rather than letting it do that without ticking boxes it would have been all the better for it.

    From the moment Q steps in the film loses its edge, stupid broom gadget with Q in the field. It undermines what Dalton was trying to do.

    I think the film would have been much better if Bond had of worked out how to attempt to assassinate Sanchez without Q's assistance.

    The whole film isn't a farce but the idea of Q being in it is. Ticking boxes, although some Bond fans just want to be reminded they are watching a Bond film rather than the film just doing that anyway.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Shardlake wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Q handing Bond that bag of tricks in LTK, it is just laughable considering this is supposed to be a proper Fleming flavoured revenge entry.

    I've come to the conclusion although I quite like watching this film it is one of the most uneven toned entries of the series.

    QOS definitely nailed this rogue Bond idea so much better and without coming across like a farce.

    Seems a bit exaggerated to call the film a farce simply because Q shows with some gadgets and a few good quips.

    I don't think they are good quips, it is like they are trying to put Moore type humour and scenario into a film that is supposed to Bond out for revenge.

    At that point it does turn it into a farce, LTK had stuck to its convictions rather than trying to remind people it was a Bond rather than letting it do that without ticking boxes it would have been all the better for it.

    From the moment Q steps in the film loses its edge, stupid broom gadget with Q in the field. It undermines what Dalton was trying to do.

    I think the film would have been much better if Bond had of worked out how to attempt to assassinate Sanchez without Q's assistance.

    The whole film isn't a farce but the idea of Q being in it is. Ticking boxes, although some Bond fans just want to be reminded they are watching a Bond film rather than the film just doing that anyway.

    Fine by me, tick all the boxes you like if I get some great scenes with Q. Plus, I'd hardly say it undermines the rest of the film, if anything the ending does that job.

    "Let's go fishing James!" Felix (My wife is dead, time to party) Leiter
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Agent_47 I think @Shardlake is talking about tone and atmosphere (we have a story about two friends; one of the friends gets married and on his honeymoon he's mauled- almost to death- by a shark and; his wife, it's heavily implied, is raped and then killed).

    Q turns up half-way through this revenge-film like a bad visual gag.

    Yes... serious films need a counter balance with humour, but, this humour never matched the story.

    I was 15 when I saw this film (in Canada you had to be 14 years or older to see it (and I loved it)), but I did find Q's involvement quite jarring (unlike 6 years before when he joins Rog-Bond in the third act).

    In LTK, it does become a farce when Q shows up (and I love Desmond)...
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    peter wrote: »
    @Agent_47 I think @Shardlake is talking about tone and atmosphere (we have a story about two friends; one of the friends gets married and on his honeymoon he's mauled- almost to death- by a shark and; his wife, it's heavily implied, is raped and then killed).

    Q turns up half-way through this revenge-film like a bad visual gag.

    Yes... serious films need a counter balance with humour, but, this humour never matched the story.

    I was 15 when I saw this film (in Canada you had to be 14 years or older to see it (and I loved it)), but I did find Q's involvement quite jarring (unlike 6 years before when he joins Rog-Bond in the third act).

    In LTK, it does become a farce when Q shows up (and I love Desmond)...

    Fair enough, can't argue with that. The tone does shift drastically whenever Q is on screen.

    Doesn't bother me though. I love Q in LTK. Wouldn't change a thing, personally.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes I accept the tone changes dramatically but in a way the film needs it. I am not one of those who thinks it's such a great movie it could have coasted on the story and acting alone. Yes Q does remind us it's a Bond movie and the scenes with Desmond are pretty funny.

    I don't think even Dalton thought LTK got it quite right tbh. Pretty sure he's on record somewhere saying he wanted his third film to be more lighthearted.

  • Posts: 7,507
    Shardlake wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Q handing Bond that bag of tricks in LTK, it is just laughable considering this is supposed to be a proper Fleming flavoured revenge entry.

    I've come to the conclusion although I quite like watching this film it is one of the most uneven toned entries of the series.

    QOS definitely nailed this rogue Bond idea so much better and without coming across like a farce.

    Seems a bit exaggerated to call the film a farce simply because Q shows with some gadgets and a few good quips.

    I don't think they are good quips, it is like they are trying to put Moore type humour and scenario into a film that is supposed to Bond out for revenge.

    At that point it does turn it into a farce, LTK had stuck to its convictions rather than trying to remind people it was a Bond rather than letting it do that without ticking boxes it would have been all the better for it.

    From the moment Q steps in the film loses its edge, stupid broom gadget with Q in the field. It undermines what Dalton was trying to do.

    I think the film would have been much better if Bond had of worked out how to attempt to assassinate Sanchez without Q's assistance.

    The whole film isn't a farce but the idea of Q being in it is. Ticking boxes, although some Bond fans just want to be reminded they are watching a Bond film rather than the film just doing that anyway.


    Regarding the quality of the quips we´ll have to disagree. I regard the Q scene in LTK as one of the best and most entertaining in the series.

    I don´t think it disturbs the overall tone of the film too much, and unlike in many other gadget laden Bond films, I don´t think it significantly impacts Bond´s plan in a way that make his efforts seem lazy or not requiering intelligence or wit. Bond still has to cleverly infiltrate an organization from within and set up a cunning plan dependent on significant skill to potentially achieve his goals unlike other films were he can simply casually push buttons in his car.

    In addition I quite like the fact that Bond and Q´s relationship has developed through the years to a point where they really care for each other as friends and Q is willing to defy orders in order to help him. The fact Desmond is in such fine form in the film and puts in one of his best performances as Q, makes it alltogether one of the most enjoyable examples of Bond/Q interaction in the series for me.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Totally agree. Love the affection Bond and Q have for each other by this stage. Q is like a concerned old uncle looking out for a wayward nephew.
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 787
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It's always tough to say anything over the kite surfing the tsunami.
    The idea is stupid, the equation is terrible (it looked dated in 2002) and the fact that they played the Bond film over it, is unbelievable and makes it worse, it was like them saying how cool is this

    But with all that being said, the slide whistle over the barrel roll will forever be the worse moment. For me it's because the CGI kite surfing was never going to look good but this is one of if not one of the greatest stunts ever done in the history of cinema and somehow they managed to shoot it down unbelievably trying to go for a cheap gag which isn't funny. Sums up Sir Roger's tenure as Bond for me.
    I always think it was a mistake to have Sheriff Pepper in the car as well, when they cut back to him and he's rolling round in the car and overacting, it just spoils it a bit for me. They should have Sir Roger just looking cool and unfazed like it was just another day on the job for Bond
    The barrel roll is one of the greatest moments in cinema history and shouldn't have been marred by a mistimed gag

    Don't forget the Beach Boys in AVTAK. Bond should basically stay clear of kite surfing and snow boarding. Just not Bondian.

    The whole PTS in AVTAK is pretty dire actually.

    In Empires Bond magazine in the latest issue, Director John Glen says it was his idea to put the Beach Boys song over the snowboarding scene!
    I like this pts, apart from that!

    To me this is typical of one of the central problems of the Moore era: EON never were willing to say no.

    Sometimes the judicious thing is to deliver one joke well and let it breathe a bit, not to pile 12 of them on top of each other. Bond snowboarding on a broken ski-doo rail would have been thrilling and sort of funny - no need to bash us over the head with the soundtrack.

    On some level this is the same category of problem that they made with the slide whistle, and with the double-take pigeon+Bondola sequence. (Among many others.)
  • Posts: 11,425
    With hindsight I agree. But presumably at the time this was felt to be what audiences wanted. The 70s was full of slightly cheesy action/comedy flicks and I think it's this you are seeing reflected in the Bond movies of the time.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    octofinger wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It's always tough to say anything over the kite surfing the tsunami.
    The idea is stupid, the equation is terrible (it looked dated in 2002) and the fact that they played the Bond film over it, is unbelievable and makes it worse, it was like them saying how cool is this

    But with all that being said, the slide whistle over the barrel roll will forever be the worse moment. For me it's because the CGI kite surfing was never going to look good but this is one of if not one of the greatest stunts ever done in the history of cinema and somehow they managed to shoot it down unbelievably trying to go for a cheap gag which isn't funny. Sums up Sir Roger's tenure as Bond for me.
    I always think it was a mistake to have Sheriff Pepper in the car as well, when they cut back to him and he's rolling round in the car and overacting, it just spoils it a bit for me. They should have Sir Roger just looking cool and unfazed like it was just another day on the job for Bond
    The barrel roll is one of the greatest moments in cinema history and shouldn't have been marred by a mistimed gag

    Don't forget the Beach Boys in AVTAK. Bond should basically stay clear of kite surfing and snow boarding. Just not Bondian.

    The whole PTS in AVTAK is pretty dire actually.

    In Empires Bond magazine in the latest issue, Director John Glen says it was his idea to put the Beach Boys song over the snowboarding scene!
    I like this pts, apart from that!

    To me this is typical of one of the central problems of the Moore era: EON never were willing to say no.

    Sometimes the judicious thing is to deliver one joke well and let it breathe a bit, not to pile 12 of them on top of each other. Bond snowboarding on a broken ski-doo rail would have been thrilling and sort of funny - no need to bash us over the head with the soundtrack.

    On some level this is the same category of problem that they made with the slide whistle, and with the double-take pigeon+Bondola sequence. (Among many others.)

    Agreed. Why not add some canned laughter while at it?
  • Posts: 7,507
    octofinger wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It's always tough to say anything over the kite surfing the tsunami.
    The idea is stupid, the equation is terrible (it looked dated in 2002) and the fact that they played the Bond film over it, is unbelievable and makes it worse, it was like them saying how cool is this

    But with all that being said, the slide whistle over the barrel roll will forever be the worse moment. For me it's because the CGI kite surfing was never going to look good but this is one of if not one of the greatest stunts ever done in the history of cinema and somehow they managed to shoot it down unbelievably trying to go for a cheap gag which isn't funny. Sums up Sir Roger's tenure as Bond for me.
    I always think it was a mistake to have Sheriff Pepper in the car as well, when they cut back to him and he's rolling round in the car and overacting, it just spoils it a bit for me. They should have Sir Roger just looking cool and unfazed like it was just another day on the job for Bond
    The barrel roll is one of the greatest moments in cinema history and shouldn't have been marred by a mistimed gag

    Don't forget the Beach Boys in AVTAK. Bond should basically stay clear of kite surfing and snow boarding. Just not Bondian.

    The whole PTS in AVTAK is pretty dire actually.

    In Empires Bond magazine in the latest issue, Director John Glen says it was his idea to put the Beach Boys song over the snowboarding scene!
    I like this pts, apart from that!

    To me this is typical of one of the central problems of the Moore era: EON never were willing to say no.

    Sometimes the judicious thing is to deliver one joke well and let it breathe a bit, not to pile 12 of them on top of each other. Bond snowboarding on a broken ski-doo rail would have been thrilling and sort of funny - no need to bash us over the head with the soundtrack.

    On some level this is the same category of problem that they made with the slide whistle, and with the double-take pigeon+Bondola sequence. (Among many others.)

    Good point.
  • Posts: 787
    I've pointed it out before, but the infamous double-taking pigeon is actually only one of several double-takers in that scene, including -

    -waiter
    -tourists
    -police
    -painter
    -double-taking dog
    -. . .and double-taking pigeon.

    Here again, EON, you could have delivered one or two of those and made your point. But six?
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