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The Man with the Golden Gun vs. Moonraker vs. A View to a Kill

00Beast00Beast
edited January 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 4,762
After watching Moonraker recently, and having watched A View to a Kill not long ago, the idea for this discussion popped into my head. Out of Roger Moore's three movies that didn't go well with the majority of fans, which one is your favorite? Mine is A View to a Kill, because it was the first Bond movie I bought on DVD, and I watched the fire out of it! Also, I have good memories of watching it, and plus it is a good Bond movie! There's an awesome villain in Max Zorin, a magnificent score by John Barry, and a climax with suspense like no other! Also, it is one of the darker Bond movies with many ally deaths, Zorin gunning down his workers mercilessly, and May Day sacrificing herself. Which one of these three is your favorite?
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Comments

  • Agent005Agent005
    Posts: 562
    Out of those three choices, The Man With the Golden Gun is my favourite. Excellent villain, one of Moore's best performances, and a wonderful score.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    The Man with the Golden Gun for being a better overall film. Moonraker for more stunning visuals (even though the outer space sequence is appalling, it's still beautifully done). A View to a Kill for the villain. Though I like Christopher Lee, Christopher Walken just... I don't know what it is... maybe he sounds better, I don't know. I'd probably sat TMWTGG, but only because I prefer Moore's earlier films to his later ones.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Moonraker easily, here is a RM completely at ease in his portrait of 007.
  • JPinFLAJPinFLA
    Posts: 54
    Of the three, Moonraker is by far the best. Quite honestly, I don't know why it gets hammered by Bond fans, as much as it does.
    It follows the 'Bond formula' precisely:
    - epic PTS sequence. Yeah, I know Jaws waves his arms like a bird. It's lame as hell now but I GUARANTEE that when folks saw that in the theater, they chuckled.
    - Sinister villain. Michael Lonsdale was terrific. The plotline may have been a bit weak, but he was ruthless and evil as hell...the way a Bond villain should be. The scene where he releases the Dobermans...can you honestly tell me that your heart rate didn't increase, even slightly, during that scene?
    - Some memorable dialogue. "Heh, you missed Mr. Bond....Did I?" "Thanks but, we're in great shape".
    - Great gadgets. The wrist dart was very cool. But, what really made it cool in my opinion, was how closely it resembled the FRWL briefcase, in that it shows up early in the film, and then saves Bond from certain death at the very end, on the space station (with some witty dialogue too)
    Let's not forget that the dart also saves Bond, inside of the centrifuge trainer...another great, extremely tense scene, reminiscent of Thunderball, when Bond is on 'the rack'. Again, great examples of following the Bond formula. When Roger stumbles out of the trainer and can barely stand up...yeah, I know it's fiction and it's 007 for crying out loud, but as a fan, you HAVE to look at that scene and say, 'Whoa, he got his ass kicked that time'.
    The x-ray cigarette case, the gondola, the watch with explosives, the boat with the hand-glider...all memorable gadgets that added to the tremendous action of the film. This movie had more action...pound for pound, than most (if not all) of the other bond movies.
    - A great John Barry score. Also, Shirley Bassey's theme song was one of the stronger of the series.
    - The Special Effects. Let's not forget that FYEO was supposed to follow TSWLM. Because of the outer space craze of the late 70s (Star Wars, Alien, The Black Hole etc.), EON pushed up Moonraker. Speaking of those other outer space, sci-fi movies, I honestly feel the effects of Moonraker stand toe to toe with those other movies of the era. Derek Meddings went out of his way to create explosions in space that did not emit an explosion, due to the lack of air...you have to give him credit for trying to be somewhat realistic.
    - The final victory. Was it a ticking bomb, like in Goldfinger? Was it an evil voice, counting down, like in....well, most Bond movies? NO...but close. Bond had three globes to zap...the first two being easy. Three....two.......and success. Again, I know we've seen this film 100s of times, but don't you still tense up, just a bit, when Bond has to switch to manual and zap that last globe, while he's skipping across the atmosphere...come on, it was cool!
    - That uncomfortable sexual innuendo, to close out the movie. DEAR LORD, the last line of TWINE still makes me vomit (thanks a lot Purvis & Wade), but Moonraker adds some humor from our beloved Desmond...that 'geek' has no idea what is on the screen and is so certain that they attempted re-entry...that line will always make me smile.

    Honestly...as a Bond fan, I like all the movies somewhat...even DAD....well, maybe not ALL the movies. But stacking MR up against a 58 year old Bond with age spots, sleeping with Grace Jones? Or, having a newbie Roger Moore fight a midget, after shooting the villain in a fun house?!?! There is no comparison
  • tommychameleontommychameleon
    Posts: 132
    Golden Gun hands down!
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Moonraker. I'm sure the reasons why have already been covered.
  • JPinFLAJPinFLA
    Posts: 54
    um, yeah. I would agree with you
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Agent005 wrote:
    Out of those three choices, The Man With the Golden Gun is my favourite. Excellent villain, one of Moore's best performances, and a wonderful score.

    Agreed on Scaramanga and Roger Moore's performance. Those are definitely two of the top things that come to mind when thinking of TMWTGG. As for the score, I think some parts are really good, like the music played during the car chase and the music during the fun house duel, and then some parts are not quite my taste. However, I love the theme song!
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    The best out of the trio is most likely TMWTGG. I just recently watched Moonraker again and I can't say I enjoyed it. A View to a Kill has some good things about it, but Moore was getting too old to play a physically convincing Bond. Also, the stunt doubles in AVTAK are really obvious to me. The scene in Paris where the car is being ripped apart is probably the worst offender of this. The double in that scene looked like Nicolas Cage actually.
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    00Beast wrote:
    . Out of Roger Moore's three movies that didn't go well with the majority of fans,

    I think the only one you can pin this on is MR when Broccoli got blasted for it going over the top. And even then it was the American fans and not a majority but a handful of letter writers. Golden Gun I dont know about but I have never read about fan unhappiness at the time - I dont think there was organised fandom.

    There was by the time AVTAK came along. I was a member of The James Bond British fan club in 1985 and used to enjoy their fanzine/ A good measure of fan reaction is the letter page and the consensus on AVTAK was "I do wish for a return to the seriousness of the early Connery Bonds but it doesn't stop me me enjoying the Roger Moore ones immensely~" The letters were mainly positive.

    Maybe its the new fans who bag them? Those who come to them via DVD or Sunday afternoon repeats on ITV.

    As I saw two of them on the days they came out I know there are problems but the overall sum of parts is excellent. I love all three.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    They all have great things about them but all fall (fairly) low in my rankings. If I were to rank them it would be as follows:

    AVTAK - Moore as charming as ever, Wine With Stacey and Christopher Walken.

    MR - Michael Lonsdale, John Barry

    TMWTGG - Christopher Lee, Maud Adams.

    Wow @actonsteve. I was an infant in 1985 but fandom then sounded much nicer than it is now.
  • Agent005Agent005
    Posts: 562
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Wine With Stacey

    I think you misspelled 'Whine'...

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Haha ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Of the three, I'll have to go with MWTGG. But Walken is always a good villain, and yes it has something to do with his voice.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    MR

    I love this film, even as a guilty pleasure film. I practically grew up watching an re-watching MR on video tape.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Moonraker- because its one of the films where you love it or loathe it and despite all the over the top cheek humour you can still love it- Jaws, Michael Lonsdale, Roger Moore at his comfortablest, the out of space battles, the epic music and the set designs are top notch

    A View to A Kill- its not bad as it seems- sure moore looks older but in some scenes he doesnt look as old, despite many of its flaws (The Obvious Stuntmen and the irrating bond girl) its pretty decent in fact Roger Moore is perhaps the bravest of all the bonds for having sex with a manish looking woman (ala Mayday)

    TMWTGG- nah its the weakest on my list- the things i enjoy about it was the funhouse battles and Scaramanga
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I can't say I really dislike any of them, I suppose they all have their flaws but so do all the films, Moonraker is of course over the top and silly but also provides some of the most iconic scenes and best one liners, AVTAK is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, I think as was mentioned in one of the other threads about Goldfinger being considered the best just because of the media etc, I think this also applies to AVTAK, people say it's the worst as if it's fact but there are plenty of people who like it and it is one of the last classic style Bond films.

    Out of the three though I would say TMWTGG is my favrouite, I have never understood the hate for this one, personally I think it is a superb entry, could it have been better, of course, but it is what it is and I love it!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    TMWTGG and MR are my top 2 favorite Bond films, but 'Golden Gun' is first. AVTAK is also very good, but outside my top 10.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    Defo 3 of the weaker films but overall I'd just favour Moonraker, just for being totally OTT. All 3 have good villains played by superb actors. AVTAK has the best theme song by far. Just seen Duran Duran in concert recently and AVTAK was played near the beginning of the set and was awesome. Moore should have quit after Octopussy though. Looked too much of an old man in AVTAK.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I still think Moore just about got away with it in a AVTAK but I still say they should have addressed his age in the script and made it more of a swansong, I'm suprised EON missed this trick! DaltonCraig - I admire your love for TMWTGG!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote:
    MR

    I love this film, even as a guilty pleasure film. I practically grew up watching an re-watching MR on video tape.

    Absolutely. I must have seen it about once a week recorded from ITV on christmas day. I even remember that in the ads they used to use a shot of the poster instead of the shoddy graphics emplyed nowadays.

    MR romps home here. As others have said loads of classic moments and its the best example of Cubbys maxim that every penny should be up on the screen.

    AVTAK has grown on me in recent years. I think its a very good performance by Sir Rog (just a shame he was too old) where he gets the perfect balance of light and serious and a great villain. Let down a bit in the action dept (great PTS but ruined by the Beach Boys, great Paris chase spoiled a bit by the blatant shots of stuntmen, embarassing fight in the warehouse and woeful fire engine chase. The finale is pretty spectacular though) on the whole its a pretty solid entry.

    As for TMWTGG I just cant understand the love some people have for it. The whole thing looks like it was made for less money than DN. The action verges from perfucntory to poor (average fight in the dressing room, nice karate school sequence ruined by the embarassing schoolgirl fight, by the numbers boat chase and same for the car chase which looks like it could be from an episode of Starsky and Hutch. The one moment of inspiration is ruined with a stupid sound effect). The highlights are few and far between - the exchanges between Scaramanga and Bond (although I can now never watch it now without thinking of Coogan and Brydon in the Trip), the locations and John Barrys score. The problem with a lot of the film is thats its just plain dull - an accusation you could never level at MR.

    Obviously DAD comes bottom but I would say TMWTGG is next. DAF runs it close but at least its entertaining.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Tough one; it’s a choice Moonraker and A View To A Kill. Both have similar strength’s and weaknesses both have fantastic villains and a wonderful score from John Barry, for example, but both have overt humour, unfortunately. I always try to judge a Bond film on Ian Fleming old mantra; go beyond what’s probable, but never impossible. On that basis, I have to go with

    A View To A Kill.


  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    All 3 are great, classic bond films. I would say moonraker, I love most of the film and can even accept outer space BUT it ruined the jaws character, so I have to say TMWTGG
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    JPinFLA wrote:
    Of the three, Moonraker is by far the best. Quite honestly, I don't know why it gets hammered by Bond fans, as much as it does.
    It follows the 'Bond formula' precisely:
    - epic PTS sequence. Yeah, I know Jaws waves his arms like a bird. It's lame as hell now but I GUARANTEE that when folks saw that in the theater, they chuckled.
    - Sinister villain. Michael Lonsdale was terrific. The plotline may have been a bit weak, but he was ruthless and evil as hell...the way a Bond villain should be. The scene where he releases the Dobermans...can you honestly tell me that your heart rate didn't increase, even slightly, during that scene?
    - Some memorable dialogue. "Heh, you missed Mr. Bond....Did I?" "Thanks but, we're in great shape".
    - Great gadgets. The wrist dart was very cool. But, what really made it cool in my opinion, was how closely it resembled the FRWL briefcase, in that it shows up early in the film, and then saves Bond from certain death at the very end, on the space station (with some witty dialogue too)
    Let's not forget that the dart also saves Bond, inside of the centrifuge trainer...another great, extremely tense scene, reminiscent of Thunderball, when Bond is on 'the rack'. Again, great examples of following the Bond formula. When Roger stumbles out of the trainer and can barely stand up...yeah, I know it's fiction and it's 007 for crying out loud, but as a fan, you HAVE to look at that scene and say, 'Whoa, he got his ass kicked that time'.
    The x-ray cigarette case, the gondola, the watch with explosives, the boat with the hand-glider...all memorable gadgets that added to the tremendous action of the film. This movie had more action...pound for pound, than most (if not all) of the other bond movies.
    - A great John Barry score. Also, Shirley Bassey's theme song was one of the stronger of the series.
    - The Special Effects. Let's not forget that FYEO was supposed to follow TSWLM. Because of the outer space craze of the late 70s (Star Wars, Alien, The Black Hole etc.), EON pushed up Moonraker. Speaking of those other outer space, sci-fi movies, I honestly feel the effects of Moonraker stand toe to toe with those other movies of the era. Derek Meddings went out of his way to create explosions in space that did not emit an explosion, due to the lack of air...you have to give him credit for trying to be somewhat realistic.
    - The final victory. Was it a ticking bomb, like in Goldfinger? Was it an evil voice, counting down, like in....well, most Bond movies? NO...but close. Bond had three globes to zap...the first two being easy. Three....two.......and success. Again, I know we've seen this film 100s of times, but don't you still tense up, just a bit, when Bond has to switch to manual and zap that last globe, while he's skipping across the atmosphere...come on, it was cool!
    - That uncomfortable sexual innuendo, to close out the movie. DEAR LORD, the last line of TWINE still makes me vomit (thanks a lot Purvis & Wade), but Moonraker adds some humor from our beloved Desmond...that 'geek' has no idea what is on the screen and is so certain that they attempted re-entry...that line will always make me smile.

    Honestly...as a Bond fan, I like all the movies somewhat...even DAD....well, maybe not ALL the movies. But stacking MR up against a 58 year old Bond with age spots, sleeping with Grace Jones? Or, having a newbie Roger Moore fight a midget, after shooting the villain in a fun house?!?! There is no comparison
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    MR romps home here. As others have said loads of classic moments and its the best example of Cubbys maxim that every penny should be up on the screen.

    Er, um, what these fellows said.

    MR is incredible and my favorite of all the Bond films that weren't faithful to their Fleming title source novel. A delightful, widescreen epic that's basically Moore's TB.

    TMWTGG is underrated but AVTAK shows that OP should've been Sir Rog's finale in the role.

    001) MR
    002) TMWTGG

    huge gap

    003) AVTAK

    Mods, can a poll be added this one please?

    Thanks,

    PKK
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    There, poll added.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Thanks, Major.
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    All three films happen to be in my bottom five, but given a choice I'd go with Moonraker due to its phenomenal first half.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    My first choice would be AVTAK. I know, it has its faults, but (apart from the fact, that it was the third Bond movie I watched at the cinema) it has some strong bits. Of course, Christopher Walken's Max Zorin, he is a real maniac... Secondly the Golden Gate showdown. Thirdly John Barry's score (and I also like Duran Duran' theme song). And, last, but not least, Patrick "John Steed" Macnee as Sir Godfrey Tibbett as Bond's ally.
    Second choice would be TMWTGG, Christopher Lee's Scaramanga is a great villain, and Nick Nack is one of the creepiest henchmen. And, again, John Barry's score. So the final one would be MR. It is highly enjoybale, but than it is so much OTT and outright silly (and Jaws turning good is ... well ... not good), e.g. when Bond arrives on a horse as a gauchio and we hear "The Magnificent Seven". Of course it would eaisly win if comapred to DAD, but, well, that's another topic for discussion...
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    TMWTGG and MR are my top 2 favorite Bond films, but 'Golden Gun' is first. AVTAK is also very good, but outside my top 10.

    Haha, I knew you'd like this discussion!
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    I would rate AVTAK the higher. I am surprised at how many bad comments this film gets. I really liked it. I loved Zorin and Christopher Walken's acting. He was not seen much after winning the oscar in 1979 but after this movie came out, man he was suddenly relevant. May Day was fun and typical of the Moore era. I actually thought they should have killed Stacy and saved May Day...

    TMWTGG I liked it at the time and never thought it was the "worst" of the series.

    MR this film I detested. I rank it lower than DAD and DAF

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