The Man with the Golden Gun vs. Moonraker vs. A View to a Kill

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  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    The Man With the Golden Gun is actually my favorite Moore movie. MR is great as well and is probably my third favorite Moore movie. AVTAK is my second least favorite Moore movie; Moore was just too old and at parts the movie was just too slow.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited January 2012 Posts: 1,261
    Okay, none of these movies are IMO "bad Bond movies", they are not in my Top-Five, but all three of them are very entertaining and funny to watch... The problem with AVTAK is indeed, that Moore was alittle too old. AFAIK Sir Roger also said, that he feels now that he should have stepped down after FYEO.
  • JPinFLA wrote:
    Of the three, Moonraker is by far the best. Quite honestly, I don't know why it gets hammered by Bond fans, as much as it does.
    It follows the 'Bond formula' precisely:
    - epic PTS sequence. Yeah, I know Jaws waves his arms like a bird. It's lame as hell now but I GUARANTEE that when folks saw that in the theater, they chuckled.
    - Sinister villain. Michael Lonsdale was terrific. The plotline may have been a bit weak, but he was ruthless and evil as hell...the way a Bond villain should be. The scene where he releases the Dobermans...can you honestly tell me that your heart rate didn't increase, even slightly, during that scene?
    - Some memorable dialogue. "Heh, you missed Mr. Bond....Did I?" "Thanks but, we're in great shape".
    - Great gadgets. The wrist dart was very cool. But, what really made it cool in my opinion, was how closely it resembled the FRWL briefcase, in that it shows up early in the film, and then saves Bond from certain death at the very end, on the space station (with some witty dialogue too)
    Let's not forget that the dart also saves Bond, inside of the centrifuge trainer...another great, extremely tense scene, reminiscent of Thunderball, when Bond is on 'the rack'. Again, great examples of following the Bond formula. When Roger stumbles out of the trainer and can barely stand up...yeah, I know it's fiction and it's 007 for crying out loud, but as a fan, you HAVE to look at that scene and say, 'Whoa, he got his ass kicked that time'.
    The x-ray cigarette case, the gondola, the watch with explosives, the boat with the hand-glider...all memorable gadgets that added to the tremendous action of the film. This movie had more action...pound for pound, than most (if not all) of the other bond movies.
    - A great John Barry score. Also, Shirley Bassey's theme song was one of the stronger of the series.
    - The Special Effects. Let's not forget that FYEO was supposed to follow TSWLM. Because of the outer space craze of the late 70s (Star Wars, Alien, The Black Hole etc.), EON pushed up Moonraker. Speaking of those other outer space, sci-fi movies, I honestly feel the effects of Moonraker stand toe to toe with those other movies of the era. Derek Meddings went out of his way to create explosions in space that did not emit an explosion, due to the lack of air...you have to give him credit for trying to be somewhat realistic.
    - The final victory. Was it a ticking bomb, like in Goldfinger? Was it an evil voice, counting down, like in....well, most Bond movies? NO...but close. Bond had three globes to zap...the first two being easy. Three....two.......and success. Again, I know we've seen this film 100s of times, but don't you still tense up, just a bit, when Bond has to switch to manual and zap that last globe, while he's skipping across the atmosphere...come on, it was cool!
    - That uncomfortable sexual innuendo, to close out the movie. DEAR LORD, the last line of TWINE still makes me vomit (thanks a lot Purvis & Wade), but Moonraker adds some humor from our beloved Desmond...that 'geek' has no idea what is on the screen and is so certain that they attempted re-entry...that line will always make me smile.

    Honestly...as a Bond fan, I like all the movies somewhat...even DAD....well, maybe not ALL the movies. But stacking MR up against a 58 year old Bond with age spots, sleeping with Grace Jones? Or, having a newbie Roger Moore fight a midget, after shooting the villain in a fun house?!?! There is no comparison

    This is a great post & I for one do not have a dislike to any Bond film yes even DAD can be fine to watch now & again.

    All 3 films in this post are all top notch however if I had to pick one it would be Moonraker.

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I for one do not have a dislike to any Bond film

    I fall into this category most of the time, though sometimes I can't stand Octopussy.
  • Posts: 3,276
    Moonraker. IMO, it has the best sets, the best score, the best actionscenes and the best villain.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2012 Posts: 15,718
    Zekidk wrote:
    Moonraker. IMO, it has the best sets, the best score

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    Zekidk wrote:
    the best actionscenes and the best villain.

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  • Posts: 9,848
    I am going with TMWGG DC007 should be happy.
  • Posts: 4,762
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    I would rate AVTAK the higher. I am surprised at how many bad comments this film gets. I really liked it. I loved Zorin and Christopher Walken's acting. He was not seen much after winning the oscar in 1979 but after this movie came out, man he was suddenly relevant. May Day was fun and typical of the Moore era. I actually thought they should have killed Stacy and saved May Day...

    TMWTGG I liked it at the time and never thought it was the "worst" of the series.

    MR this film I detested. I rank it lower than DAD and DAF

    Nice to see some praise for AVTAK! I never have figured out why people rank it lower on their list. I understand that Roger is 58 and not able to perform stunts, and Stacey is annoying, but I still like it. Had Timothy Dalton come in early for AVTAK, I think people would have enjoyed it more.
  • 00Beast wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    I would rate AVTAK the higher. I am surprised at how many bad comments this film gets. I really liked it. I loved Zorin and Christopher Walken's acting. He was not seen much after winning the oscar in 1979 but after this movie came out, man he was suddenly relevant. May Day was fun and typical of the Moore era. I actually thought they should have killed Stacy and saved May Day...

    TMWTGG I liked it at the time and never thought it was the "worst" of the series.

    MR this film I detested. I rank it lower than DAD and DAF

    Nice to see some praise for AVTAK! I never have figured out why people rank it lower on their list. I understand that Roger is 58 and not able to perform stunts, and Stacey is annoying, but I still like it. Had Timothy Dalton come in early for AVTAK, I think people would have enjoyed it more.

    I too think Timothy would have been very good in AVTAK if offered.

    Did you ever see James Brolin's test footage for OP?

    I have to say he may have made a great Bond if given the chance. he so reminds me of Christian Bale back then.

    James Brolin in OP & AVTAK may have been a better idea all along what do folk think?

    Cubby seemed very interested in Brolin before Moore was talked back.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    James Brolin in OP & AVTAK may have been a better idea all along what do folk think?

    Judging from his screentests on the OP UE DVD I'd say a definite NO as with John Gavin for DAF. However, I would've been fine with Brolin or Gavin playing Felix Leiter.

  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    edited January 2012 Posts: 1,812
    Brolin I think would've made a great Bond if he could only keep that British accent. But I do agree, he would've also made a pretty good Felix Leiter.

    *Sorry not sure how that happend.
  • Posts: 546
    1.TMWTGG
    2.MR
    3.AVTAK
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    TMWTGG is by far much more classic than the other two, however the one that pleases me the most is AVTAK.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited April 2013 Posts: 17,804
    1.TMWTGG
    2.MR
    3.AVTAK

    I would probably go with that line up, except that TMWTGG is one of my favourite Bonds, whereas the other two are not.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited February 2016 Posts: 1,984
    I know this is almost three years old but I feel like with all the ranking discussions we've had in the past, these three would be worth debating?

    The ranking of these films depend entirely on which type of Bond you like.

    For me, MR is the worst. It's funny at times, it has a good score, huge sets, good stuntwork in the PTS, and it's meant to be purely escapist, so I don't watch it with the expectations of it being amazing. The first half is fine, as I've said before. Where it goes downhill is the second half - where it sacrifices everything for its comical style. I can understand that it's an escapist movie (the first half of the film gets this quite right), so I'm more lenient towards it. But just because it's a humourous escapist film doesn't mean it should destroy one of the most memorable villains in the franchise (Jaws) and reduce Bond to a flurry of whizzing lasers. You don't even see the PPK in this - as a whole, this film just feels the most removed from Bond as a character. In an attempt to replicate the culture of the late 70's, it sacrifices the culture of Bond, which I find particularly disappointing.

    TMWTGG and AVTAK are actually quite similar (for me, at least). They both feature really good villains in both Walken and Lee, horrible Bond girls in Ekland and Roberts (Maud Adams is fine), and strange but generally memorable henchmen. Both have central plots (Scaramanga targeting Bond and Zorin planning to monopolize the microchip market) but get sidetracked by annoying side-plots that get way too much focus (the solar energy crisis and the horse racing).

    The differences aren't that great, but choosing between them is what lets me choose between my #22 and #21. AVTAK has a better score and Bond theme by far, while Moore is too old in AVTAK and it's an underlying distraction from any good acting he has in the film. It's nice to see that we have a more intense adventure where Bond seems genuinely out of his depth, but this is perhaps the first time where Bond seems thoroughly exhausted on every front. I'm fine with the way Moore plays Bond, but in this film, I'm strangely aware (and a bit critical) of the way Moore plays Bond in this one. Every time I see the film, I'm acutely aware that it's time for Moore to go and that his portrayal has lost its touch. I'm still not completely sure why that is, because as far as acting is concerned, there's nothing wrong. I suppose Moore's age has more of a subconscious effect on me than I realized.

    For TMWTGG, everything that is good is answered by something that is bad, and you can notice this in certain scenes (the most obvious one would be the amazing car jump juxtaposed with the stupid sound effect played during the stunt). Regarding Bond himself, Moore is in his younger years so physically, there's no problem. I also find his portrayal here to be more satisfying than in AVTAK, especially because there are a few moments where he injects some Fleming into his portrayal (I believe that is why a number of respected users on this forum rank TMWTGG as his best Bond portrayal). However, he is clearly uncomfortable and not completely devoted to the scene where he bends Andrea Ander's hand and slaps her. The producers, obviously divided on where to take Bond, seemed to want to bring Moore closer to Connery - a poor move in my opinion, as each actor needs to be allowed to have his own distinctive take on Bond. Whenever I see that scene, I just notice the lack of Connery and it stings for a bit.

    At the end of the day, it's very close and more or less neck-and-neck for me between these two. I chose AVTAK for having less cringeworthy moments and Mayday being better than Nick Nack. The score is so much better throughout the film, too, whereas I can't find any consistent, underlying advantage TMWTGG has over AVTAK other than Moore being younger (which is not enough).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    MR is the best of these three in every one of the following departments:

    <ul>
    <li>Music</li>
    <li>Moore's acting</li>
    <li>Stunts</li>
    <li>Cinematography</li>
    <li>Locations</li>
    <li>Bond girl</li>
    <li>Effects</li>
    <li>Theme song</li>
    <li>...</li>
    </ul>
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MR is the best of these three in every one of the following departments:

    <ul>
    <li>Music</li>
    <li>Moore's acting</li>
    <li>Stunts</li>
    <li>Cinematography</li>
    <li>Locations</li>
    <li>Bond girl</li>
    <li>Effects</li>
    <li>Theme song</li>
    <li>...</li>
    </ul>

    Do not agree on that. The score is good but the AVTAK score is way better.
    The locations are not bad but it is more like a tour around the world. The locations are also a little wasted due to some campy elements (bondola, Jaws falling in love).
    The title song? Moonraker is probably my choice for the second worst and most forgettable theme song.

    Anyway my ranking would be:

    1. AVTAK
    2. TMWTGG
    3. MR
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Agreed with @GBF. AVTAK has the best score here, not MR. Shirley Bassey's good in MR but the song just isn't memorable, same going for the title sequence which is just a recycled version of older ones. AVTAK has more memorable tune and a better, more unique title sequence.

    For locations, they're both better than TMWTGG, but it's hard to say which is better. Not too much good comes out of Brazil in Moonraker, which is where all the cringeworthiness in MR spawns. AVTAK definitely has the more diverse environments too.

    I'm also not convinced that Moore's acting in MR is the best. Sure, he was able to go along with the ridiculous settings, but his interaction with the villains in TMWTGG and AVTAK were just as satisfying, if not moreso.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They all have something going for and against them, but overall I enjoy TMWTGG more.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1,817
    Good God, this is basically the three most mediocre Moore films (and among the three most mediocre Bond films over all) against each other. IMO, they are all clearly among the three weakest films in terms of integrity and excitement. If there is a winner among them it is not by a large margin...

    In my ranking:
    19. AVTAK
    20. MR
    21. (QOS)
    22. TMWTGG
    23. (DAD)
    24. (DAF)

    AVTAK isn't quite as bad as it is maligned to be, because it can at least have fun in some sequences (Golden Gate), but most of the film is flat and uninteresting - Max Zorin is good, but not great, and May Day is... serviceable - they bring up horse racing, then dump it halfway. And no one can quite tell whether the movie is trying to be fun (fire truck chase) or serious (mine massacre). The Beach Boys moment remains one of the most bizarre and worst moments in Bond. And it is true, Moore was waaaay too old.

    MR starts good (PTS, centrifuge, hunting scene), then downspirals, and I don't even have to explain it. Bondola, Jaws in love, space laser battle, the end. Most of the action in the second half (like the boat chase) is mundane and uninteresting. Very brainless as well.

    TMWTGG has a great villain, and a good secondary Bond girl. Unfortunately, Moore has his weakest performance, and Goodnight is the worst Bond girl of Moore. Film is very empty and tired. Stupidity laces the film - dumb kung fu, sumo wedgie, slide whistle barrel roll, midget henchman, etc. It is just all round mediocre and very un-fun to watch. That's why it ranks among the worst. Because it is simply not fun to watch.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MR is the best of these three in every one of the following departments:

    <ul>
    <li>Music</li>
    <li>Moore's acting</li>
    <li>Stunts</li>
    <li>Cinematography</li>
    <li>Locations</li>
    <li>Bond girl</li>
    <li>Effects</li>
    <li>Theme song</li>
    <li>...</li>
    </ul>

    I'm sorry, but where I work the Blu Ray of MR is on sale for $4, and I still can't bring myself to purchase it. Dolly, Jaws & the Star Wars space battle (coupled with the horrifying slo-mo weightless simulation effect) just destroy it for me... 8-|

    TMWTGG on the other hand is one of my favourite Moore entries just for its bizarre,
    and AVTAK is actually quite watchable IMO.
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 326
    I gotta vote Golden Gun on this one. A small guilty pleasure, but it was also one of the first Bond films I watched when I was young. In a sequence, too, followed up with Connery's first three.
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