Die Another Day vs Quantum of Solace

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  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    ^
    By "did everything", you are referring to the confirmation that Vesper agreed with Quantum's demands to save Yusef?

    Yes, that was what I was referring to.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ^
    By "did everything", you are referring to the confirmation that Vesper agreed with Quantum's demands to save Yusef?

    Yes, that was what I was referring to.

    Very well could be, but much like a classic poem, there are dozens of interpretations. Never thought I would compare Bond to poetry, but there you go...
  • Posts: 4,762
    Shoreline wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    @Shoreline: Basically, Dominic Greene is looking to acquire a vast expanse of desert from the Bolivian government to which he will stockpile all the water and cause a water shortage in Bolivia. In return, he will put General Medrano back in power and make other nations recognize his new Bolivian government. As to why Greene needs to stockpile the water, I have no idea. It has to do with Quantum making tons of money, but I have no idea how that is to be achieved with making a water shortage.

    Thanks. Clear as mud.


    ;)

    Sorry, best I could do! QoS is a very difficult Bond movie to understand, but thankfully plenty of action and a shorter run time keeps us from having to think about it.
  • He was 40 years old ! Connery was 31 in DN and already a 00-agent for several years ! Craig Bond must be a total retard for 1) be a rookie at age 40 and 2) Be acting like a erratic teenager at the age of 40.

    Surely the actual age of the actor portraying Bond isn't relevant, clearly Fleming always intended Bond to be in his mid to late thirties, therefore Craig is portraying a man of that age, as was Connery and all those after him.

    If the age of the actor was the actual age Bond was supposed to be represented as in each particular movie we'd have had about a dozen different Bond's by now, as Fleming says in Moonraker, the mandatory retirement age for a 00 agent is 45, (Bond admits to being eight years shy of this), we'd hardly of had good old Roger running around trying to save the world two years shy of his sixtieth birthday would we, in fact, we wouldn't have had him at all....



  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    He was 40 years old ! Connery was 31 in DN and already a 00-agent for several years ! Craig Bond must be a total retard for 1) be a rookie at age 40 and 2) Be acting like a erratic teenager at the age of 40.

    Surely the actual age of the actor portraying Bond isn't relevant, clearly Fleming always intended Bond to be in his mid to late thirties, therefore Craig is portraying a man of that age, as was Connery and all those after him.

    If the age of the actor was the actual age Bond was supposed to be represented as in each particular movie we'd have had about a dozen different Bond's by now, as Fleming says in Moonraker, the mandatory retirement age for a 00 agent is 45, (Bond admits to being eight years shy of this), we'd hardly of had good old Roger running around trying to save the world two years shy of his sixtieth birthday would we, in fact, we wouldn't have had him at all....

    Yes, the age of the actor means nothing. @Commander_Skyfall laid it out beautifully. @DC007, if you think Craig is a "total retard" to be a rookie at 40, Sir Rog must be MI6's resident psychotic. By AVTAK he must have had to escape an asylum before going on his missions because M feared that he would pull his back and have a mental break in the field. That explains the clothes in AVTAK... ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2012 Posts: 15,718
    He was 40 years old ! Connery was 31 in DN and already a 00-agent for several years ! Craig Bond must be a total retard for 1) be a rookie at age 40 and 2) Be acting like a erratic teenager at the age of 40.

    Surely the actual age of the actor portraying Bond isn't relevant, clearly Fleming always intended Bond to be in his mid to late thirties, therefore Craig is portraying a man of that age, as was Connery and all those after him.

    If the age of the actor was the actual age Bond was supposed to be represented as in each particular movie we'd have had about a dozen different Bond's by now, as Fleming says in Moonraker, the mandatory retirement age for a 00 agent is 45, (Bond admits to being eight years shy of this), we'd hardly of had good old Roger running around trying to save the world two years shy of his sixtieth birthday would we, in fact, we wouldn't have had him at all....

    James Bond played by Craig was born in april 1968, thus he was 38 in the film... I don't buy for one second that he would be promoted as a 00-agent at that age, while Connery had already a few years as 00 in DN when he was only 31 ! Craig just looks too old and too mature to be playing a rookie, and he doesn't look like the type to be having such erratic behavior...
  • He was 40 years old ! Connery was 31 in DN and already a 00-agent for several years ! Craig Bond must be a total retard for 1) be a rookie at age 40 and 2) Be acting like a erratic teenager at the age of 40.

    Surely the actual age of the actor portraying Bond isn't relevant, clearly Fleming always intended Bond to be in his mid to late thirties, therefore Craig is portraying a man of that age, as was Connery and all those after him.

    If the age of the actor was the actual age Bond was supposed to be represented as in each particular movie we'd have had about a dozen different Bond's by now, as Fleming says in Moonraker, the mandatory retirement age for a 00 agent is 45, (Bond admits to being eight years shy of this), we'd hardly of had good old Roger running around trying to save the world two years shy of his sixtieth birthday would we, in fact, we wouldn't have had him at all....

    James Bond played by Craig was born in april 1968, thus he was 38 in the film... I don't buy for one second that he would be promoted as a 00-agent at that age, while Connery had already a few years as 00 in DN when he was only 31 ! Craig just looks too old and too mature to be playing a rookie, and he doesn't look like the type to be having such erratic behavior...

    That's pretty much summed up my whole point, Connery's Bond wasn't 31, Connery was, he was portraying a chracter in his mid to late Thirties, who, throughout the books, doesn't rally age, that's why he was a great choice for the role, he could do several movies and remain visually within the correct age range.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    James Bond played by Craig was born in april 1968, thus he was 38 in the film... I don't buy for one second that he would be promoted as a 00-agent at that age, while Connery had already a few years as 00 in DN when he was only 31 ! Craig just looks too old and too mature to be playing a rookie, and he doesn't look like the type to be having such erratic behavior...

    Craig's Bond is only a rookie to the intelligence service. He's not really a rookie, thanks to his years in the Royal Navy.

    And, as already stated, Connery was playing a man who was 38, even though he was only 31.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Was Craig's Bond in the Royal Navy though or was he, as suggested by Vesper, a former SAS man recruited to the secret service?
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    His official biography (on some website back when CR was coming out) stated that he was a Commander in the Royal Navy. Vesper's probably just assuming he was ex-SAS (or, maybe, he was both).
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    Was Craig's Bond in the Royal Navy though or was he, as suggested by Vesper, a former SAS man recruited to the secret service?

    As @Agent007391 says, there was a great website when CR came out that had Bond's full service record, revised to suit the re-boot, here it is:

    http://www.sonypictures.com/homevideo/casinoroyale/

    'Enter' the site and click on Dossier, Bond's full service record is here, (it is indeed Naval), as well as all sorts of other interesting facts, I actually thought this site was a brilliant way to help explain the back story to the re-booted character and quite cleverly done. Enjoy, it's a good read.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2012 Posts: 15,718
    I thought the Bond dossier on CR's website was horrible - I don't understand how a member of the SAS with such an erratic behaviour would be even considered for a 00 promotion, or how didn't he get the boot from the SAS long ago, or how his behaviour wasn't drilled out of him...
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    @DaltonCraig007

    Exactly. Fleming’s Bond would never of broken into a M’s flat, for example.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    royale65 wrote:
    Fleming’s Bond would never of broken into a M’s flat, for example.

    I agree with this point. I've always hated this scene, one of the worst in the film. Bond just wouldn't do this.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    royale65 wrote:
    Fleming’s Bond would never of broken into a M’s flat, for example.

    I agree with this point. I've always hated this scene, one of the worst in the film. Bond just wouldn't do this.

    I must admit even though I really like CR I agree. It just doesn't strike me as something the original character would have done - break into his bosses flat to prove a point. More likely he'd phone her.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Was Craig's Bond in the Royal Navy though or was he, as suggested by Vesper, a former SAS man recruited to the secret service?

    Vesper simply assumed he was like a former SAS type, not actually sure if he was.
  • Posts: 1,817
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Was Craig's Bond in the Royal Navy though or was he, as suggested by Vesper, a former SAS man recruited to the secret service?

    Vesper simply assumed he was like a former SAS type, not actually sure if he was.

    Exactly, she assumed it... She hadn't the clearance to knowing such things.
  • Posts: 11,189
    0013 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Was Craig's Bond in the Royal Navy though or was he, as suggested by Vesper, a former SAS man recruited to the secret service?

    Vesper simply assumed he was like a former SAS type, not actually sure if he was.

    Exactly, she assumed it... She hadn't the clearance to knowing such things.

    I'm not saying she KNEW he was but, from what we'd seen of him up until that point, he'd demonstrated physical skills similar to that of an SAS officer. He's (reasonably) young and extremely atheletic.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Any good member of a special or armed forces unit needs to be.
  • 002002
    edited January 2012 Posts: 581
    He was 40 years old ! Connery was 31 in DN and already a 00-agent for several years ! Craig Bond must be a total retard for 1) be a rookie at age 40 and 2) Be acting like a erratic teenager at the age of 40.

    Surely the actual age of the actor portraying Bond isn't relevant, clearly Fleming always intended Bond to be in his mid to late thirties, therefore Craig is portraying a man of that age, as was Connery and all those after him.

    If the age of the actor was the actual age Bond was supposed to be represented as in each particular movie we'd have had about a dozen different Bond's by now, as Fleming says in Moonraker, the mandatory retirement age for a 00 agent is 45, (Bond admits to being eight years shy of this), we'd hardly of had good old Roger running around trying to save the world two years shy of his sixtieth birthday would we, in fact, we wouldn't have had him at all....

    James Bond played by Craig was born in april 1968, thus he was 38 in the film... I don't buy for one second that he would be promoted as a 00-agent at that age, while Connery had already a few years as 00 in DN when he was only 31 ! Craig just looks too old and too mature to be playing a rookie, and he doesn't look like the type to be having such erratic behavior...

    well he is blonde...after all :P oh and the refrence to the SAS stuff is that i read that they changed his backstory to fit with the modern day version- which i think is retarded given that that makes Bond now a cliched action star like all the american heroes....
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 172
    002 wrote:

    well he is blonde...after all :P oh and the refrence to the SAS stuff is that i read that they changed his backstory to fit with the modern day version- which i think is retarded given that that makes Bond now a cliched action star like all the american heroes....

    Bond like all the american heroes? i think that's fit perfectly with Brosnan's Bond.
  • Im pretty sure Connery was 32 for DN. But anyway I agree he wasn't playing his age just as for all we know Craig wasn't playing his age either. His Bond could've been 32 or 33. And I don't think he behaves that erratically. Bond has always been a maverick in all his portrayals. It's just more evident in CR.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,520
    Directer: Quantum of Solace
    Cinematopgraphy: Quantum of Solace
    Production Design: Quantum of Solace
    Bond girls: Quantum of Solace
    Casting: Quantum of Solace

    Editing: Quantum of Solace. Whyle QOS need some inprovements, i don't like a big part of the editing of DAD.

    Second United directer: Quantum Of Solace.
    Not easy because i like the swordfight, car chase and surfing, but dislike the scene with water surfinger. The horse scene of QOS i like so muuch as the swordfight of DAD. But QOS have some extra action scene's who have more control or i like more then the one from DAD and that's why i vote for QOS. Example whyle i think the hotel scene is stil not very good i think it is better then Cuba.

    Maintitle: Quantum of Solace. Daniel Kleinman did a great job for DAD and i like the original of it, but i like it that like the one from CR it predict the future. Also i like the yolt elements.

    Title song: Die Another Day

    Pre-title: Die Another Day. Whyle i like the car chase, i vote for DAD because it have some good spy elements.

    End (Bond with Jinx or Bond with M): Bond with M. Nice reference to OHMSS and a great music of David Arnold.


  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    ICraig wasn't playing his age either. His Bond could've been 32 or 33.

    Well Craig's Bond was born in 1968, and CR took place in 2006, so his rookie Bond was 38.
  • ICraig wasn't playing his age either. His Bond could've been 32 or 33.

    Well Craig's Bond was born in 1968, and CR took place in 2006, so his rookie Bond was 38.

    When did they say this? Im not going by the online doissiers.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2012 Posts: 15,718
    ICraig wasn't playing his age either. His Bond could've been 32 or 33.

    Well Craig's Bond was born in 1968, and CR took place in 2006, so his rookie Bond was 38.

    When did they say this? Im not going by the online doissiers.

    How can you disregard the online dossier ?? It's the official Craig's Bond biography, so Craig Bond was indeed 38 in CR. I don't see how it's possible to argue with the official resume of Craig's Bond.

  • ICraig wasn't playing his age either. His Bond could've been 32 or 33.

    Well Craig's Bond was born in 1968, and CR took place in 2006, so his rookie Bond was 38.

    When did they say this? Im not going by the online doissiers.

    How can you disregard the online dossier ?? It's the official Craig's Bond biography, so Craig Bond was indeed 38 in CR. I don't see how it's possible to argue with the official resume of Craig's Bond.

    Some people go by the idea that if it isn't in the film then it isn't real...

    There was a great article I read some time ago (I can't remember where) that talked about the difference in portrayals of action heroes over the years. One thing that stood out for me was how the prime demographic for films (16 to 25 year old American boys) don't accept characters who are respectful of authority as much as characters who rebel against it or are "bad-ass". Of course, this fits in with they way they behave themselves (the cliched - but true - rebellious teenager) or even more importantly see themselves. In the 60s it was common to have characters be very respectful of authority and follow the rules and a couple of examples were Connery's Bond (who could be cheeky but had a great respect for M) and Captain Kirk. Compare that to the latest version of Kirk we got in Abrams film! It started to change in the late 60s, and continued through the 70s but according to the article in really took off in the 80s. That was when a lot of action heroes went from cheeky or "lone wolf" to outright cocky.

    Two things that I was thinking about yesterday - I got talking to a young woman in the armed forces and she was telling me stories about how "SAS types" do indeed have that kind of attitude that Craig's Bond had in CR. Having had friends and family members in various forces she was just confirming what I already knew (and she was speaking about a specific type of person, not all people in the forces). But also, listening to some of the young guys in my gym (even guys in their twenties who are now working for big companies) they do indeed always love and identify with (even if I don't think they're at all tough or bad-ass) those cocky bad-ass characters, especially when they do something that humiliates another character or shows the authority figures that they were right and the authority figures were wrong.

    Given all that, I don't think that they've pushed Bond *too* far in that direction, just enough to make him a bit more appealing than previous versions. It will be interesting to see if this is a trait that continues or is softened over time.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I find it impossible to believe that real SAS member act like Craigs Bond. Unless they are struggling to find recruits, and have had to lower their standards.

    That's the problem I have with Craigs Bond, he's too immature to have come through the SAS. I would have expected them to have drilled that unruly and immature attitude out of him. And then he looks too old to be an MI6 recruit.
  • I find it impossible to believe that real SAS member act like Craigs Bond. Unless they are struggling to find recruits, and have had to lower their standards.

    That's the problem I have with Craigs Bond, he's too immature to have come through the SAS. I would have expected them to have drilled that unruly and immature attitude out of him. And then he looks too old to be an MI6 recruit.

    Except, as has been mentioned a few times, according to his official (eon produced) online service record, he was never in the SAS....
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 172
    I find it impossible to believe that real SAS member act like Craigs Bond. Unless they are struggling to find recruits, and have had to lower their standards.

    i think i also find it impossible to believe that REAL MI6 member act like James Bond we know.
    That's the problem I have with Craigs Bond, he's too immature to have come through the SAS. I would have expected them to have drilled that unruly and immature attitude out of him. And then he looks too old to be an MI6 recruit.

    Craig's Bond is mature enough not to ride on a cello

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