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Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B (Diamonds Are Forever vs. The World Is Not Enough)

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    DAF

    TMWTGG is one my least favourite Bonds. It lacks in nearly all departments.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    A tough one, certainly; neither is my cup tea, however.

    So let’s break it down;

    Bond; Connery is back on form here, after sleepwalking though YOLT, whilst Moore is inconsistent.

    Connery (DAF)

    Action; DAF is pure spectacle and little substance I’m afraid, apart from the great elevator fight, naturally. So I’m going for TMWTGG; at least it has a bit of invention. Both lose points for giving us “comedy Sherriff’s”.

    TMWTGG

    Locations/Music; easy one this….

    TMWTGG/DAF

    Script; DAF

    Plot; the space laser from DAF is impractical, to say the least. I actually quite like the plot of TMWTGG, shame it doesn’t concentrate on the Bond/Scaramanga duel.

    TMWTGG

    Screenplay; DAF is the first Bond film to have an uninteresting and uninvolving screenplay, in my humble opinion. TMWTGG has a dodgy middle third, but makes it up with first and final sections. So…

    TMWTGG

    All in all, then, I have to go with….

    The Man With The Golden Gun
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    edited January 2012 Posts: 2,341
    I add some comments to my post. Of course I choose TMWTGG
    Diamonds is just too campy, silly characters, this movie set the stage for the 12 years of Roger Moore so we can give it props for that but I absolutely hated it. It was such a let down after the great OHMSS
    Shady Tree and his Acorns
    Tiffany Case turing into a Lucile Ball
    The Slumber Funeral home gangsters, "I got a brudder". "The stiff-I mean the deceased, your brother?"

    My most vivid memory of this hogwash of a film was the outrageous car chase thru Las Vegas. I remember the audience just howling and I was sitting there shaking my head during the whole time. A real crapper of a Bond film.
    DAF ranks as the third worst (followed by DAD and MR)
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Don't have time to elaborate but TMWTGG for so many reasons

    It's head and shoulders above Diamonds, one of Moore's best, Moore still plausible in the role, something Connery had long lost by the time of his 1971 bow out

    Golden Gun wins here like a greyhound on amphetamines over it's struggling rival

  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Diamonds is just too campy, silly characters, this movie set the stage for the 12 years of Roger Moore so we can give it props for that
    When Roger Moore did over-the-top goofy stuff, it was too goofy. It just got annoying. Moore didn't know when to stop with it. Connery did.
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    It was such a let down after the great OHMSS
    It doesn't suprise me someone that goes by the name "OHMSS69" dislikes DAF. OHMSS is good, but it has flaws. The PTS fight on the beach was unneeded, the love story could have been done better, ect. It has problems. Lazenby, however, is not one of those problems. Lazenby did his best with the material, and he did quite well, considering it was his FIRST MOVIE EVER.

  • JBFan626JBFan626
    edited January 2012 Posts: 1,497
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    Goldfinger by far. Casino Royale is an abomination, and hopefully will be forgotten in a decade or so. Goldfinger is a better adaptation of the book as well. I don't remember Bond running through a construction site and breaking into an embassy, with only a slap on the wrist as a punishment in the Casino Royale novel. It's not really that "gritty" as everyone says, is it? Sounds like absolute fantasy to me. Also, 0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, it has the "Best Bond theme"? Are you kidding me? How is the OHMSS theme a lesser theme to Chris Cornell's whiny voice screaming incredibly bland lyrics?
    Oh Christ, another shadow...
    8-|

    I tend to agree with that Dr_Metz said...

    Also agreed with Dr. Metz. Casino Royale has flaws that are often overlooked. I think people get caught up in the theatrics of the film: the high octane action sequences and the melodrama. I say that because I was one of those folks, but then upon further viewing the film started to show cracks that got wider over time.
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    It was such a let down after the great OHMSS
    It doesn't suprise me someone that goes by the name "OHMSS69" dislikes DAF. OHMSS is good, but it has flaws. The PTS fight on the beach was unneeded, the love story could have been done better, ect. It has problems. Lazenby, however, is not one of those problems. Lazenby did his best with the material, and he did quite well, considering it was his FIRST MOVIE EVER.

    I'm right there with you on DAF. Great Bond fun all around. I always say, DAF should be treated as a standalone film; more of a natural successor to YOLT. In fact I think all Bond films should be viewed this way, since there is virtually no continuity in any of the films (though they tried with CR-->QOS). I gotta disagree with you on the OHMSS PTS fight though, that's a great introduction to Lazenby's Bond. OHMSS and DAF are top classic Bond films, albeit very different ones.

    DAF vs. TMWTGG? DAF. I think Connery gives this one the edge.



  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    JBFan626 wrote:
    I'm right there with you on DAF. Great Bond fun all around. I always say, DAF should be treated as a standalone film; more of a natural successor to YOLT.
    Considering DAF starts up in a Japan-like setting, and makes no actual mention to Tracy or to any of the events in OHMSS (or even YOLT), I agree that that's what the producers were trying to go with. A middle-of-the-road approach.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    edited January 2012 Posts: 2,341
    @Dr_Metz
    and it doesn't surprise me that someone who calls themselves "Dr Metz" would feel so strongly about DAF

    All the films have their flaws some more than others. DAF has such crappy Fx (note the matte work during the attack on the oil rig) and editing and lack continuiety in the storyline. They should have taken more care in post production given the hugh budget.

  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    TMWTGG

    The only thing DAF has over TMWTGG is Tiffany Case. She is one of the better Bond girls.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    QsAssistant wrote:
    The only thing DAF has over TMWTGG is Tiffany Case. She is one of the better Bond girls.

    I don't know how you can say that. She's so much more useless than Mary Goodnight (and how in the hell can you be more useless than her, you ask?) because she does, almost literally, nothing the entire movie. She shoots herself off of an oil rig, she such a stupid twit that she puts the real tape back in, for God's sake! At least Goodnight killed a henchman, and I really wish I was the button she backed into on Scaramanga's console.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2012 Posts: 28,694
    Both are utter shite, but DAF has Sean, and that is why it beats out TMWTGG.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Agent007391 wrote:
    QsAssistant wrote:
    The only thing DAF has over TMWTGG is Tiffany Case. She is one of the better Bond girls.

    I don't know how you can say that. She's so much more useless than Mary Goodnight (and how in the hell can you be more useless than her, you ask?) because she does, almost literally, nothing the entire movie. She shoots herself off of an oil rig, she such a stupid twit that she puts the real tape back in, for God's sake! At least Goodnight killed a henchman, and I really wish I was the button she backed into on Scaramanga's console.

    I completely agree. Tiffany was just a brainless broad.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Agent007391 wrote:
    QsAssistant wrote:
    The only thing DAF has over TMWTGG is Tiffany Case. She is one of the better Bond girls.

    I don't know how you can say that. She's so much more useless than Mary Goodnight (and how in the hell can you be more useless than her, you ask?) because she does, almost literally, nothing the entire movie. She shoots herself off of an oil rig, she such a stupid twit that she puts the real tape back in, for God's sake! At least Goodnight killed a henchman, and I really wish I was the button she backed into on Scaramanga's console.

    I completely agree. Tiffany was just a brainless broad.

    She somehow managed to outsmart the CIA <i>and</i> Bond with the diamonds in the casino. I'd say that's something.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Agent007391 wrote:
    QsAssistant wrote:
    The only thing DAF has over TMWTGG is Tiffany Case. She is one of the better Bond girls.

    I don't know how you can say that. She's so much more useless than Mary Goodnight (and how in the hell can you be more useless than her, you ask?) because she does, almost literally, nothing the entire movie. She shoots herself off of an oil rig, she such a stupid twit that she puts the real tape back in, for God's sake! At least Goodnight killed a henchman, and I really wish I was the button she backed into on Scaramanga's console.

    I completely agree. Tiffany was just a brainless broad.


    At first she comes off as a rugged individualist and like the gal in the book which describes her as a young Lauren Bacall, but after the scene at her pool and after Bond slaps her she just turns into a Lucile Ball. Bumbling twit.
    Now Jill St John looks WOW in a bikini but then what Bond girl doesn't?
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    As of the moment it's 11-10 in favor of DAF.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    TMWTGG for me easily...DAF is just a parody of what it could have been after OHMSS.
  • anotherbondgeekanotherbondgeek
    Posts: 423
    DAF
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Many thanks to DoubleOhhSeven for tallying up the votes!

    The final score is DAF with 12 and TMWTGG with 11. One of the closest matches we've had yet. Many thanks to anotherbondgeek for breaking the tie!

    All right, the next round will be a duel between:

    On Her Majesty's Secret Service and The Living Daylights
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    This is a hard one. I would probably have to say TLD, because both the first half and second half are solid, while OHMSS' first half was a bit weak. Although TLD has it's share of problems as well, it was a giant breath of fresh air after more than a decade of Moore. The defection scene in the beginning of TLD was brilliant, and one of my favorite scenes in the whole series. Actually, now I want to watch TLD again.
  • Agent005Agent005
    Posts: 562
    @00Beast, why would you do that?! My two favourites and now I have to pick one...

    OHMSS
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Living Daylights for me, well I have to say that as Dalton is my personal favorite of the six actors. It has a really fun teaser in Gibraltar, it does get a bit dull here and there especially when Bond is in central europe, but Dalton makes for a real Fleming type success and is the epitome of secret agent and just looks the part and acts really well, he's head and shoulders above Lazenby if we can compare the two actors in the 007 stakes. A-HA put forth a typically 80s effort that sounds a bit dated now but it was a catchy and fine tune nonetheless. OHMSS gets a bit banal often when I watch, once we get to Piz Gloria not much happens I feel and all said, while I have no problem with Lazenby as Bond and feel he could of done more work, this particular release sometimes does get a bit dull often and i've never been that much of a fancier for it. Daylights wins this time around
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    OHMSS

    Still one of the two best 007 movies made up untill now imho.
  • RogueThunderballRogueThunderball
    Posts: 306
    TLD all the way!
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    Good lord, this was a close one. I'm going to have to give it to The Living Daylights on the fact that I prefer Timothy Dalton to George Lazenby. Apart from that, these are two excellent Bond films.

    6. The Living Daylights (1987) - 8.5/10
    7. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service (1969) - 8.5/10
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    TLD was good and a breath of fresh air, but it just doesn't compete against a classic like OHMSS.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    The Living Daylights

    My #7 against my least favorite, so there's no contest here! TLD has a stronger first half than OHMSS, stays consistent with action and intrigue all the way through, has Timothy Dalton in a slam-bang performance, a better henchman, better music, and a more interesting plot, however complicated it may be.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    OHMSS
    TLD is good and Dalton does a bang up job. villians were weak but I liked the girl and the movie in general but it falls to OHMSS.
    Good strong characters: Tracy, Draco, Blofeld, Bunt. Even Gunther was good henchman
    The ski chase scenes , the one by moonlight and the one in daylight culminating with the avalanche is tops. The car chase is exciting and does not go overboard with the humor. The helicopter assault on Piz Gloria is just as exciting as the climax of The Guns of Navarone. The bobsleigh race and fight between Bond and Blofeld is full os thrills and heart stopping action.
    The PTS with the fight on the beach is brutal and exciting with good editing.
    The romance between Bond and Tracy, touching.
    The downbeat ending helps to make this the cult classic it has become.

    my vote goes to OHMSS
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    TLD

    My second favourite of all time. There are bits in the first half of OHMSS which seem extraneous (they are not) while TLD is a rollercoaster from start to finish.

    OHMSS is still top five though.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Two of my favourite Bonds. Now I need to choose. Okay, this is a tough one but OHMSS wins - very narrowly I might add.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    I had put up a thread on this one some time ago. This is my answer from there:

    I love both films(they're both in my current top 004). Both debut films for a Bond actor. Both are faithful to their respective Fleming title literary source. Both feature important relationships between Bond and the leading lady. Both have fantastic John Barry scores. Both are loved by staunch fans of the series more than the general movie watching public.

    I'm going to pick TLD for the following reasons:

    001) Dalton is the more experienced actor of the two Bonds.
    002) The villain's scheme and the romantic story are better integrated in TLD whereas in OHMSS, Tracy disappears from the story for an hour with no mention of her.
    003) The Dalton/d'Abo chemistry comes off stronger and more believable than the Lazenby/Rigg chemistry.

    There are aspects of OHMSS that I prefer to TLD:

    001) The villains are stronger.
    002) The final battle is better.

    But on the whole, TLD gets my vote.
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