Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B (Diamonds Are Forever vs. The World Is Not Enough)

1119120122124125153

Comments

  • edited August 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Lazenby's performance in OHMSS is a bit of a mixed bag for me. Granted he's great in the fight scenes but there are moments when he's as wooden as an Oak Tree - mainly early on in the film. The rather extensive dubbing doesn't help either.

    However he does get better and delivers the last scene perfectly. Also, I defy anyone to not get a bit emotional during the scene in the barn when Bond proposes to Tracy.

    While I do probably put Dalts higher than Laz, OHMSS easily beats Kill. I've said this so many times on here that I (fairly) recently had a double bill of OHMSS and LTK and the former just has a more "Bondian" touch and sensibility, not to mention that it's heavily based on Fleming's novel. In comparison Kill just feels a bit...generic.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Only a Moore fan would talk such nonsense.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Shardlake wrote:
    Only a Moore fan would talk such nonsense.

    Who's that aimed at?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    I love them both, LTK is a strong film, and Dalton really does give it his all. Pity he didn't stay.
    But the win this round goes to OHMSS.
    Easily one of the best films of the series. Lazenby you fool.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Harder than I first anticipated, but going to go with License to Kill, Yes, Dalton must have swayed it, but it's not a bad couple of hours spent, I do enjoy a serious and hard edged Bond adventure, and you can't go wrong with it in that respect. OHMSS is not the worst watch, but it's too much snow and mountains sometimes and George sometimes appears to not get up to much. Dalton and LTK wins this round
  • 1. OHMSS
    ..............
    9. LTK

    Definitely OHMSS for me.
  • Posts: 501
    0iker0 wrote:
    @0iker0 Looking at your list, I'm confused. You rank LTK low because you think itdoesn't feel like a Bond film, but QOS is higher, so I guess that means you think it does???
    I think QOS is one of the most underrated movies of the series. It's true that it doesn't feel as a Bond movie as in another ones, but it's still a great BOND movie. I mean, it has humor, Bond has a mission (not only a personal issue), it has great action... I like to think that the decrease of Bond feeling is pursued, not as in LTK. In QOS he's just a rookie growing up (as we can see in the fabulous last scene with the underused Stana Katic), plus it has the lovely Tosca scene.
    P.S. I also hate the shaky camera but I don't think it makes the movie that bad as to put it in one of the last positions.

    LTK is a great BOND movie. Q, gadgets, Bond, hot girls, great locations, memorable villian, menacing henchman, gunbarrel (a normal one, at the start), it has everything you'd expect from a Bond film but gives it a twist by making it personal and having Bond go rogue, something we haven't seen before.

    It does the whole dark and serious thing without losing it's identity as a Bond film, which is sort of what CR did. Bond has a mission in QOS, but it's hard to understand what, and the film doesn't make you care about it like in LTK.

    LTK has great action too (plane fishing, warehouse gunfight, and just look at the tanker chase!), without the crap Bourne knock off editing/shaky cam that QOS had. In QOS he shouldn't have been just a rookie growing up, even Martin Campbell said that Bond had become the Bond we know by the end of CR.

    LTK is the old story of the cop whose frien has been injured or killed by someone he arrested before. He is taken out of the case but he refuses, so he is suspended. However, he continues with the case and he gets the villain with a little bit of help of his friends in the office.

    This film, LTK could be any film in the 80s, change Bond for McClane and this could be a perfectly valid Die Hard film.

    But in QOS, we have the mission of discovering what organization is behind all these acts and who's the boss, plus we have the revenge theme from the only person Bond has ever really loved in his life, plus he thinks that she was a mole and that she betrayed him.
    In QOS the worst things are the shaky-camera, the TS, theme song and the gun barrel, but the rest, what matters, is much much better than LTK.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 12,837
    0iker0 wrote:
    LTK is the old story of the cop whose frien has been injured or killed by someone he arrested before. He is taken out of the case but he refuses, so he is suspended. However, he continues with the case and he gets the villain with a little bit of help of his friends in the office.

    This film, LTK could be any film in the 80s, change Bond for McClane and this could be a perfectly valid Die Hard film.

    But in QOS, we have the mission of discovering what organization is behind all these acts and who's the boss, plus we have the revenge theme from the only person Bond has ever really loved in his life, plus he thinks that she was a mole and that she betrayed him.
    In QOS the worst things are the shaky-camera, the TS, theme song and the gun barrel, but the rest, what matters, is much much better than LTK.

    And you ignore all my points of why it feels like a Bond film. Nice one.

    The mission in QOS wasn't just discovering Quantum (it should've been), it was something about stealing water??? I'm not sure, because I had no idea what was going on. And you never see the boss.

    Bond loved Tracy.

    What exactly, is much better than LTK? The villian? Some forgettable european guy in a suit is better than a classic, menacing and memorable villian like Sanchez? The whole water story, which is forgettable and is a mess, is better than Bond going for revenge but then playing Sanchez against his own people and destroying his organisation from the inside? The action, QOS we have a ton of chase sequences ruined by the shaky cam and a decent finale, vs brilliant stunt work like the plane fishing or the tanker chase?

    Seriously, you said the rest of QOS is much better than LTK, what do you think is actually is better? You can have your opinion and everything but I'd like to hear why you have it. Now I'm going to stop arguing with you because we're really derailing this thread.
  • Posts: 501
    0iker0 wrote:
    LTK is the old story of the cop whose frien has been injured or killed by someone he arrested before. He is taken out of the case but he refuses, so he is suspended. However, he continues with the case and he gets the villain with a little bit of help of his friends in the office.

    This film, LTK could be any film in the 80s, change Bond for McClane and this could be a perfectly valid Die Hard film.

    But in QOS, we have the mission of discovering what organization is behind all these acts and who's the boss, plus we have the revenge theme from the only person Bond has ever really loved in his life, plus he thinks that she was a mole and that she betrayed him.
    In QOS the worst things are the shaky-camera, the TS, theme song and the gun barrel, but the rest, what matters, is much much better than LTK.

    And you ignore all my points of why it feels like a Bond film. Nice one.

    The mission in QOS wasn't just discovering Quantum (it should've been), it was something about stealing water??? I'm not sure, because I had no idea what was going on. And you never see the boss.

    Bond loved Tracy.

    What exactly, is much better than LTK? The villian? Some forgettable european guy in a suit is better than a classic, menacing and memorable villian like Sanchez? The whole water story, which is forgettable and is a mess, is better than Bond going for revenge but then playing Sanchez against his own people and destroying his organisation from the inside? The action, QOS we have a ton of chase sequences ruined by the shaky cam and a decent finale, vs brilliant stunt work like the plane fishing or the tanker chase?

    Seriously, you said the rest of QOS is much better than LTK, what do you think is actually is better? You can have your opinion and everything but I'd like to hear why you have it. Now I'm going to stop arguing with you because we're really derailing this thread.

    Let me answer your questions first. They follow the marked money that was introduced in the organisation to Greene. Then, following the mission, he follows him to the tosca in Bregenz. He follows Greene, with the help of Mathis, to Bolivia. There they steal the water to sell it later in high prizes. Greene is trapped and tells Bond everything about Quantum.

    Bond loves Tracy but CR and QOS happen before OHMSS, so in the moment that QOS happens the only woman Bond ever loved is Vesper.

    As you said we don't get to see the boss of the organisation so, IMHO, we don't really see the main villain in this film. The same way we don't in dr No. However, as I said before Sanchez could have been in any movie in the 80s. Greene and a complex organisation like Quantum could only exist in a Bond film. I don't mean I don't like Sanchez I just mean that I'm more used to see this type of villain in other non-bond films. About the plot I think it's more interesting than LTKs. The water idea is very clever, and it's nowhere as messy as you claim it is.

    And about the last question: Bond, Leiter, the story, the stunts (not the cam),...

    I think we will never coincide in this one...
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 3,494
    I agree with both of you in parts.

    1. They haven't done enough with QUANTUM or any specific villain to get into Sanchez' league. Silva may have that potential from what I've seen, but he isn't with QUANTUM. Great point as well by Oiker noting the QUANTUM parallel to SPECTRE at this point. Patience. I'm sure we'll eventually have a head baddie and some more serious endeavors down the line. Thus far it's all about the money and control with QUANTUM, and not about any grand megalomaniac schemes. The answers for QUANTUM and where they go next with it are at least 2 years away.

    2. The impression I got was Greene's water plot was something either in a trial stage in Bolivia, and possibly in it's early stages elsewhere when Bond got to it. If he was able to control water in many countries, that was a potential big money maker for the organization. I chuckle when people think the water plot was lame. The results were evident when the Bolivian people abandoned their homes and village when they had none. Try going without it sometime. I think what people are trying to really say is that the scheme wasn't ambitious enough.

    That said, I like QOS. But even with the plot holes filled in, to me QOS is simply not a better film than LTK. But they do share a lot in common with OHMSS in that all 3 have been black sheep in the series and underrated by many. OHMSS has been fully rehabbed, more and more appreciate LTK as the years have gone by, and I think QOS will follow a similar path in the future.



  • Posts: 266
    OHMSS it's my second favourite behind FRWL, LTK is always around mid table for me. So OHMSS gets my nod.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Shardlake wrote:
    Only a Moore fan would talk such nonsense.

    Who's that aimed at?

    00Beast
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,289
    OHMSS over LTK.
    0iker0 wrote:
    Bond loves Tracy but CR and QOS happen before OHMSS, so in the moment that QOS happens the only woman Bond ever loved is Vesper.

    We are in a rebooted storyline, so OHMSS may not and probably will not ever happen to the new Bond.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 612
    echo wrote:
    OHMSS over LTK.
    0iker0 wrote:
    Bond loves Tracy but CR and QOS happen before OHMSS, so in the moment that QOS happens the only woman Bond ever loved is Vesper.

    We are in a rebooted storyline, so OHMSS may not and probably will not ever happen to the new Bond.

    No, it's the same storyline. The only thing we miss out on are the Vesper references in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, from the novel. Obviously, because Casino Royale came out 40 years after OHMSS. Same character, same timeline, but the movies were made at different times, so there were script restrictions.

    CR and QoS come before OHMSS.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    OHMSS
  • Posts: 1,310
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service for me. It is hardly polished (from a technical aspect), but it is the better film of the two.

    I'll always have a sweet spot for LTK, though, as it was the first Bond film I ever saw.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    echo wrote:
    OHMSS over LTK.
    0iker0 wrote:
    Bond loves Tracy but CR and QOS happen before OHMSS, so in the moment that QOS happens the only woman Bond ever loved is Vesper.

    We are in a rebooted storyline, so OHMSS may not and probably will not ever happen to the new Bond.

    No, it's the same storyline. The only thing we miss out on are the Vesper references in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, from the novel. Obviously, because Casino Royale came out 40 years after OHMSS. Same character, same timeline, but the movies were made at different times, so there were script restrictions.

    CR and QoS come before OHMSS.

    FCWL- No, I think you're wrong about it being the same timeline. My understanding of a reboot is that we're supposed to pretend that all the movies previous to the reboot film simply never happened (different than a prequel). So in this timeline the only two Bond adventures are CR and QoS. So Bond has never married, and Felix still has both arms and both legs. In theory Eon could remake both OHMSS and LALD, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen (who wants to see Bond's wife killed again and Felix lose his limbs again)?

  • Posts: 176
    I'm going to go with LTK. I liked the aspect of Bond being out for revenge,plus I like Dalton more than Lazenby.
  • Posts: 232
    Both are at the very top tier for me, but O.H.M.S.S. wins out by just being my favorite. But I'd watch either one at a drop of a hat, both classics.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    What happened to this thread? It was one of the most popular, 122 pages. Over a week has gone by without any additional votes. Isn't it time we "called it" and moved on to another round? Or have we collectively decided that we're bored with this and want to move on to other topics?
  • One extra vote for OHMSS. Can never warm to Licence To Kill, for many of the sundry reasons pointed out already.
  • Posts: 4,762
    I apologize for the extended delay, what with school back in and all, it's been a little difficult trying to adjust back to the swing of things! However, I am now prepared to continue this thread! As we can tell, On Her Majesty's Secret Service took the win over License to Kill.

    Next round: Live and Let Die vs. Quantum of Solace
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Quantum of Solace gets my vote and welcome back @00Beast.
  • LALD I think it has the better Bond, better villian, better henchman, better story, better girl and the best Bond theme.

    imo, LALD is a proper classic. QOS is just, meh.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    Live and Let Die.
  • Posts: 562
    Quantum of Solace

    Is it just me or are these choices getting tougher?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    QoS, baby!
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 612
    Quantum of Solace for the car chase and opera house scene alone.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Live & Let Die.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I am going to give my vote to LALD because Craig didn't even make an attempt to pluck a cherry from Olga's pie.
Sign In or Register to comment.