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Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B (Diamonds Are Forever vs. The World Is Not Enough)

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  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    00Beast wrote:
    I cast my vote for Octopussy! Overall, it beats Moonraker in action, plot, pacing, main girl, and villains. MR has the better soundtrack and locations for sure, but just doesn't live up to OP, especially when you consider how much camp and cheese made its way into the movie. Granted, OP has its fair share too, but handles it better than MR and knows when to put it aside and play it seriously.

    I think @00Beast has hit it on the head, here, although Drax is slightly better than Orlov and Khan, IMO.

    Octopussy

  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    MOONRAKER
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    royale65 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I cast my vote for Octopussy! Overall, it beats Moonraker in action, plot, pacing, main girl, and villains. MR has the better soundtrack and locations for sure, but just doesn't live up to OP, especially when you consider how much camp and cheese made its way into the movie. Granted, OP has its fair share too, but handles it better than MR and knows when to put it aside and play it seriously.

    I think @00Beast has hit it on the head, here, although Drax is slightly better than Orlov and Khan, IMO.

    Octopussy

    Drax better than Orlov? Sorry, can't agree with that one Royale. Berkoff as Orlov has more personality in one of his fingernails than Drax. I could never understand why people like Drax, I'd take even the awful Gustav Graves over that guy.

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Orlov was too hammy. I like Drax as he's understated. And Graves? You must be joking; Graves is a grotesque parody of Bond villainy. All in my humble opinion, of course.

    :)>-
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Gustav Graves is the Scott Evil of the James Bond series. =))
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited September 2012 Posts: 3,494
    Berkoff too hammy? Nonsense. He was just perfectly OTT for that scene in confronting and rebutting Gogol's status quo speech. A big room, a big performance was needed. The scene when Bond confronts him is far from hammy.

    You guys can laugh, that's fine. I'm not joking, but I'm not defending Graves either as some great villain. He is grotesque, smarmy, and thoroughly annoying. But at least he has a personality that you can hate or like, one way or the other. If Drax is understated, he's understated to the point that Jan "Father Christmas" Werich should have been hired. Because he didn't scare anyone either. Drax is vanilla and like watching paint dry. He's monotone virtually throughout. Where is the menace? Where is the personality? Bond villains always have some personality or physical trait that differentiates one from the other. That's what makes Graves, as bad as he is, a better villain for me. Can someone give me a reason why Drax is good? Understated doesn't work for me.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    A Space Station beats a Robocop suit in my opinion.
  • SJK91SJK91
    edited September 2012 Posts: 1,310
    Murdock wrote:
    A Space Station beats a Robocop suit in my opinion.
    Unless the RoboCop suit is in the movie RoboCop, of course. :D
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    SJK91 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    A Space Station beats a Robocop suit in my opinion.
    Unless the RoboCop suit is in the movie RoboCop, of course. :D
    Right. :) The Real RoboCop suit could smash Grave's knock of to dust just by laying on top of it. :p
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited September 2012 Posts: 3,494
    Murdock wrote:
    A Space Station beats a Robocop suit in my opinion.

    Fine, but what does that have to do with anything? It explains why Graves is lame, we already know that. But merely by default isn't a strong reason for me, that doesn't require any thought. Some people really like Drax and should be able to articulate that. I still say he's the worst villain in the series until someone can give me a reason to get behind.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    A Space Station beats a Robocop suit in my opinion.

    Fine, but what does that have to do with anything? It explains why Graves is lame, we already know that. But merely by default isn't a strong reason for me, that doesn't require any thought. Some people really like Drax and should be able to articulate that. I still say he's the worst villain in the series until someone can give me a reason to get behind.

    Drax is shifty. Through his dry demeanor he can be very sinister. First he has a small conversation with Bond, as soon as he leaves the room he tells Chang to kill him. Even when Bond ruins his plans, he doesn't even flinch. He's Calm and Collected. He doesn't let his opponent sting him. And that screams pure evil to me. The only time Drax got angry was when Jaws wasn't following orders. Drax is a Blofeld clone, he pushes the buttons to keep things in motion. Graves is wreckless, cocky, arrogant. He let his emotions and ego get the best of him. Drax was just unlucky that Bond had the wristwatch dart gun.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    Fair enough Murdock, thank you. It actually sounds sort of like Dr. Julius No and Karl Stromberg in many aspects. But therein lies another problem. No was very quiet like that but Wiseman had a certain presence of menace about him that made him interesting. Stromberg did much the same thing with Jaws and Shandor that Drax did with Chang (I also hear him called Char after the gas mask incident and wonder if it was a missed gaffe of speech), but Jurgens like Wiseman is a great actor and knows how to be menacing.

    Maybe it's not so much the Drax character, but Lonsdale's portrayal that is the real problem here. Either way, Graves is still more entertaining. And that's why I go to see a Bond or any other movie. I want to be entertained. Graves is a guy you can hate. Drax is just blah and too bland, he leaves me feeling absolutely nothing as far as loving or hating the character. That's not entertaining. Maybe that's reason enough for my contempt.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited September 2012 Posts: 11,189
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    Berkoff too hammy? Nonsense. He was just perfectly OTT for that scene in confronting and rebutting Gogol's status quo speech. A big room, a big performance was needed. The scene when Bond confronts him is far from hammy.

    You guys can laugh, that's fine. I'm not joking, but I'm not defending Graves either as some great villain. He is grotesque, smarmy, and thoroughly annoying. But at least he has a personality that you can hate or like, one way or the other. If Drax is understated, he's understated to the point that Jan "Father Christmas" Werich should have been hired. Because he didn't scare anyone either. Drax is vanilla and like watching paint dry. He's monotone virtually throughout. Where is the menace? Where is the personality? Bond villains always have some personality or physical trait that differentiates one from the other. That's what makes Graves, as bad as he is, a better villain for me. Can someone give me a reason why Drax is good? Understated doesn't work for me.

    I'm not a massive fan of MR but I really enjoyed Lonsdale as Drax. He probably has the best line in the film:

    "Look after Mr Bond...see that some harm comes to him"

    Part of me does enjoy Graves I'm ashamed to say but he is just pure OTT panto.

    At least the likes of Drax and Orlov had some madness/menace about them.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'm not a big Drax fan either. Same with Graves he makes me cringe sometimes. My favorite villians are Dr. No Alec Trevelyan and Scaramanga.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited September 2012 Posts: 3,494
    @ Bain- why exactly do you like Drax? His lines are OK, the one you mention is a good one, but there's zero inflection of menace or anything else in his tone.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    @ Bain- why exactly do you like Drax? His lines are OK, the one you mention is a good one, but there's zero inflection of menace or anything else in his tone.

    I just like his dry manner

    "You're not a sportsman Mr Bond, why did you break up the encounter with my pet python?!" :D
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    OK. But an actor can be dry and at the same time not boring as hell. Dr. Julius No is as dry as you can get, yet Wiseman is fantastic. Starting to think Drax is awful because of Lonsdale. I have an originals review coming up for Moonraker this weekend and this question of character versus actor is one I'd like to resolve in my mind. I don't recommend reading my review unless one enjoys written carnage :D
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    OK. But an actor can be dry and at the same time not boring as hell. Dr. Julius No is as dry as you can get, yet Wiseman is fantastic. Starting to think Drax is awful because of Lonsdale. I have an originals review coming up for Moonraker this weekend and this question of character versus actor is one I'd like to resolve in my mind. I don't recommend reading my review unless one enjoys written carnage :D

    Ha, I don't mind. Like I said I'm not a huge fan of MR.

    If it was GE on the other hand....NOOOOOO!!!!! ;)
  • 0iker00iker0
    edited September 2012 Posts: 501
    Are we going to have another round?
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    MOONRAKER forever
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Octopussy
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    0iker0 wrote:
    Are we going to have another round?

    I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Mr Beast has some things to do, but a new round would be appreciated sometime soon
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I will vote for Octopussy because thankfully the Tarzan yell was done in the Indian jungle and not in the middle of the Marines/Drax laser tag battle.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Any other votes out here? If not, we'll tally 'em up and start the next round.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Can we have GoldenEye vs. Diamonds Are Forever, or have we done that one?
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    ^^^Trouble with that is DAF would get slaughtered.

    How about CR vs TSWLM if that hasn't been done? Seems like a fair match.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Octopussy slaughtered Moonraker 22-7 by my count! On request from @Agent007391, the next round is:

    Diamonds Are Forever vs. GoldenEye
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Who are we kidding? Goldeneye for many reasons, including the better Bond. DAF would win for me only in title song. DAF is fun at times, and it has some fans for sure, but Goleneye is definitely the better Bond film.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    GoldenEye
    GoldenEye
    GoldenEye
    GOLDENEYE!!!!!!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Goldeneye...DUN NAH!
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