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Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B (Diamonds Are Forever vs. The World Is Not Enough)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say overall its stronger than Dalton's in LTK.
    I'd say different. Just as valid, and received better by many. It all comes down to tastes. Craig is a truly fine actor. So is Dalton IMO. They have severely different methods. I happen to appreciate them both; your mileage clearly varies.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd say overall its stronger than Dalton's in LTK.
    I'd say different. Just as valid, and received better by many. It all comes down to tastes. Craig is a truly fine actor. So is Dalton IMO. They have severely different methods. I happen to appreciate them both; your mileage clearly varies.

    I used to favour Dalton actually until a couple of years ago when I saw CR again.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited April 2014 Posts: 17,827
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I used to favour Dalton actually until a couple of years ago when I saw CR again.

    And this brings us to my favourite point concerning Bond, are we to take him as a literal MI6 agent doing real world work? Craig plays him that way. And he does it extremely well.
    But MY Bond is a creature of fantasy. He exists in that world of strange novels and fantastic cinema. It's the real world bent here & twisted there. And a character of intensity within control to match. So, while I enjoy & appreciate Craigs' movies & performances, they just aren't my favourites. IMO Bond was never the stuff of convoluted real world conflict. This is why Man Of Steel &, The Dark Knight are lost on me; fantasy characters need to exist in a fantasy world. Fantasy characters shoehorned into 'real world' situations seems like another flavour of the month adrenaline rush. That's not in and of itself a bad thing, but it's not the stuff of classics, again, IMHO.

    My prediction is that in twenty years, Skyfall will be talked about in the same way as Avatar, Titanic, and the Harry Potter films.
    "Yeah, Skyfall made a BILLION dollars! And it was just an okay Bond movie!"
    "Lots of movies made a billion dollars dude, look at last years' Live Soft Or Die Hard."
    "Wanna watch Goldfinger?"
    "Always, dude."
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I used to favour Dalton actually until a couple of years ago when I saw CR again.

    And this brings us to my favourite point concerning Bond, are we to take him as a literal MI6 agent doing real world work? Craig plays him that way. And he does it extremely well.
    But MY Bond is a creature of fantasy. He exists in that world of strange novels and fantastic cinema. It's the real world bent here & twisted there. And a character of intensity within control to match. So, while I enjoy & appreciate Craigs' movies & performances, they just aren't my favourites. IMO Bond was never the stuff of convoluted real world conflict. This is why Man Of Steele &, The Dark Knight are lost on me; fantasy characters need to exist in a fantasy world. Fantasy characters shoehorned into 'real world' situations seems like another flavour of the month adrenaline rush. That's not in and of itself a bad thing, but it's not the stuff of classics, again, IMHO.

    My prediction is that in twenty years, Skyfall will be talked about in the same way as Avatar, Titanic, and the Harry Potter films.
    "Yeah, Skyfall made a BILLION dollars! And it was just an okay Bond movie!"
    "Lots of movies made a billion dollars dude, look at last years' Live Soft Or Die Hard."
    "Wanna watch Goldfinger?"
    "Always, dude."

    Well said, and I suspect, very true.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is the better of the two TD movies, IMO.

    Yes, Dalton's Mancunian accent does pop up here and there. Apparently he's got a bit of a thing about his accent. At RADA they tried to wipe out his regional accent and in the process his confidence was completely shot. He does not have much positive to say about RADA actually. In his own words, it took him a long time to find his own voice again after that. A shame he doesn't seem to have much control over when the inner Manc comes out. Verges from RSC to Corrie and back again in the same scene! Still a very good actor though. More range than DC, IMO.

    Where are you from? Dalton's Welsh, and last time I looked Manchester wasn't in Wales!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    I've been sitting on this one for a while, and I think I'll choose LTK. I love both films, but LTK has more action and better pacing. I get a little bored once Bond begins his drive to SF, not to mention LTK features everyone's favourite winking fish, Winky. ;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited April 2014 Posts: 16,359
    QBranch wrote:
    I've been sitting on this one for a while, and I think I'll choose LTK. I love both films, but LTK has more action and better pacing. I get a little bored once Bond begins his drive to SF, not to mention LTK features everyone's favourite winking fish, Winky. ;)
    And Carey Lowell's leg's. ;)
    licence-to-kill-02.jpg
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is the better of the two TD movies, IMO.

    Yes, Dalton's Mancunian accent does pop up here and there. Apparently he's got a bit of a thing about his accent. At RADA they tried to wipe out his regional accent and in the process his confidence was completely shot. He does not have much positive to say about RADA actually. In his own words, it took him a long time to find his own voice again after that. A shame he doesn't seem to have much control over when the inner Manc comes out. Verges from RSC to Corrie and back again in the same scene! Still a very good actor though. More range than DC, IMO.

    Where are you from? Dalton's Welsh, and last time I looked Manchester wasn't in Wales!

    Common mistake to make. Dalton might have been born in Wales and is often referred to as Welsh, but I don't think he himself sees it that way. As far as I'm aware he has little/no Welsh heritage and he was actually brought up in Manchester. He definitely doesn't have a Welsh accent. Listen next time you watch either of his Bond movies. He generally speaks in RP, but occassionally slips into a bit of a north west English accent. I'm guessing it's a bit of his Mancunian slipping in.

  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Getafix wrote:
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is the better of the two TD movies, IMO.

    Yes, Dalton's Mancunian accent does pop up here and there. Apparently he's got a bit of a thing about his accent. At RADA they tried to wipe out his regional accent and in the process his confidence was completely shot. He does not have much positive to say about RADA actually. In his own words, it took him a long time to find his own voice again after that. A shame he doesn't seem to have much control over when the inner Manc comes out. Verges from RSC to Corrie and back again in the same scene! Still a very good actor though. More range than DC, IMO.

    Where are you from? Dalton's Welsh, and last time I looked Manchester wasn't in Wales!

    Common mistake to make. Dalton might have been born in Wales and is often referred to as Welsh, but I don't think he himself sees it that way. As far as I'm aware he has little/no Welsh heritage and he was actually brought up in Manchester. He definitely doesn't have a Welsh accent. Listen next time you watch either of his Bond movies. He generally speaks in RP, but occassionally slips into a bit of a north west English accent. I'm guessing it's a bit of his Mancunian slipping in.

    Derbyshire, if his bio is right on-line. And the way he says 'nasty' is pure Welsh - to my ears anyway! And he is still my favourite Bond actor.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is the better of the two TD movies, IMO.

    Yes, Dalton's Mancunian accent does pop up here and there. Apparently he's got a bit of a thing about his accent. At RADA they tried to wipe out his regional accent and in the process his confidence was completely shot. He does not have much positive to say about RADA actually. In his own words, it took him a long time to find his own voice again after that. A shame he doesn't seem to have much control over when the inner Manc comes out. Verges from RSC to Corrie and back again in the same scene! Still a very good actor though. More range than DC, IMO.

    Where are you from? Dalton's Welsh, and last time I looked Manchester wasn't in Wales!

    Common mistake to make. Dalton might have been born in Wales and is often referred to as Welsh, but I don't think he himself sees it that way. As far as I'm aware he has little/no Welsh heritage and he was actually brought up in Manchester. He definitely doesn't have a Welsh accent. Listen next time you watch either of his Bond movies. He generally speaks in RP, but occassionally slips into a bit of a north west English accent. I'm guessing it's a bit of his Mancunian slipping in.

    Derbyshire, if his bio is right on-line. And the way he says 'nasty' is pure Welsh - to my ears anyway! And he is still my favourite Bond actor.

    Well, whether it's a Mancunian or Derbyshire accent, it's definitely NOT Welsh.

    He's my number 3 after Sean and Sir Rog. A great Bond.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    LTK isnt as riddled with plot holes as SF.

    LTK wins.
  • yogi1yogi1
    Posts: 94
    I love both films and have watched both recently ,but I think LTK is the better film, it was just released 20 years too early , the world just wasn't ready for that kind of Bond film ,LTK seems almost tame compared to the Craig era (M uses the f word!!!) and I still cant see how it needed a 15 certificate. I'll let my 11 year old son watch LTK no problem but I have to edit SF.I actually think LTK has aged better than almost any Bond film , I watched it again the other day and tried to find things that looked dated , and Q's signature gun was the only thing that stood out ,its such a shame we didn't get more from Dalton because I think a 4/5 film legacy would have proven better than anyones , it took 3 films for Connery to be fully accepted.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited April 2014 Posts: 4,043
    LTK has dated well? Seriously you Dalton fans will delude yourself to point of ridiculousness to make a point his era is better than Craig's and Sf will not be a forgotten entry it will be the GF of its day.

    Just because a handful of you didn't like it you'll spout any old crap to justify your opinion.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think the second half of LTK holds up better than the first half, which certainly has a very 80s vibe to it.

    For me, although SF does have its weaknesses plot-wise, there's no comparison which one is a better Bond experience. SF is #4 in my rankings, LTK is #14.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Shardlake wrote:
    you Dalton fans will delude yourself to point of ridiculousness
    Oh YEAH? Say that to my FACE man! Where do you wanna meet for this? I'll spring for the airfare either way!!
    Wait... I took my vacation already.
    Say is it okay if you meet me for this fight? I wouldn't impose, but I can't take days off right now.
    If it's not convenient, we could maybe schedule a fight next year, would that be acceptable? I'm sorry, I hate to be a bother about this angry confrontational stuff...
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    edited April 2014 Posts: 1,394
    yogi1 wrote:
    I love both films and have watched both recently ,but I think LTK is the better film, it was just released 20 years too early , the world just wasn't ready for that kind of Bond film ,LTK seems almost tame compared to the Craig era (M uses the f word!!!) and I still cant see how it needed a 15 certificate. I'll let my 11 year old son watch LTK no problem but I have to edit SF.I actually think LTK has aged better than almost any Bond film , I watched it again the other day and tried to find things that looked dated , and Q's signature gun was the only thing that stood out ,its such a shame we didn't get more from Dalton because I think a 4/5 film legacy would have proven better than anyones , it took 3 films for Connery to be fully accepted.

    I think Leiter being fed to the sharks, and Krest being blown up in such a bloody fashion was what pushed it to a 15.It was definetly the most violent Bond film ever made up to that point.

    I disagree about Connery taking 3 films to be accepted.He was a hit from the very moment he appeared on screen in Dr. No.
  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    Skyfall no doubt.
  • OtisFairplayOtisFairplay
    Posts: 48
    Licence to Kill.

    Both of them good Bond films. None of them terribly consistent. One looks a bit dated today, the other will in time. I find one of them slightly puffed up, and the other gets my vote.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    LTK

    I'm a Daltonite and a child of the 80s. Though I like SF, I honestly prefer LTK as the stronger of the two. The only complaint I have about LTK are the Q scenes. I find them out of place is such a hard-boiled revenge flick but okay, they don't spoil the fun all that much. ;-)
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    LTK by a split hair on Sean Connery's beard.
  • JohnBarryFanJohnBarryFan
    Posts: 1,405
    I was a bit dissapointed by Skyfall on first viewing but, like Bale's first outing as Batman, I like it more and more with each passing viewing. My first impression was that Skyfall's finale reminded me too much of an Equilazer episode in which Robert McCall was trapped in an old country home with his son and had to repel attaking forces.

    However, the "Tennyson scene" is one of the highlights of the franchise, with Craig delivering his usual outstanding performance.

    But the question is Skyfall or LTK. I'm sorry but as much as I like Craig, I can't go against Timothy Dalton on this one. The bar fight is outstanding, I LOVE the fight against the 2 Chinese agents (a fight Bond looses) and some dialogue no one who saw the film will forget ("Remember, you're only President for life" and "more like a problem eliminator").

    So, on this one give me LTK every day of the week.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I found SF a very dissatisfying movie, which brings me to a 2 1/4 dissapointment with Craigs output. Like Brosnan he deserves so much better.

    Nobody has ever called me a Daltonfan and I will never be so, but as a Bondmovie I did find LTK a movie that has a better balance, albeit that the movie remains a Miami Vice ripoff better well stolen than pretentiously presented which is my problem with SF.

    So yeah I will have LTK first and SF not too often.

    I am currently waiting with far more anticipation on the next Mission Impossible and November Man than Bond24.
  • DoggieGaloreDoggieGalore
    Posts: 86
    Dalton will be known as the Boring Bond. But between LTK and SF, I prefer LTK. It has Carey Lowell...which is more than I can say for Skyfall.
  • ThighsOfXeniaThighsOfXenia
    Posts: 1,596
    Skyfall for me although I don't think of it as top 5 material as I once did.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    If someone would like to figure out the score of who won the LTK-SF debate, feel free to, but I am going to jump start this thread back into the fold by initiating another battle. After months of inactivity, I present to you the Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B thread, back in action!

    Dr. No vs. For Your Eyes Only

  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    FYEO because the Prime Minister and Blofeld actually bothered to show up.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Dr. No
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,521
    It's a close one but Dr. No; DN sits at #7 on my ranking, and FYEO at #9. I like them both a lot but I have re-watched DN a lot more and just think it's slightly superior.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Dr No is so clearly a more interesting and well made spy thriller- as much as I like FYEO it's fairly tame & silly stuff compared to Connery's tough-as-nails firstie.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,521
    DN is so awesome, and shockingly underrated by so many. FYEO used to be underrated, but I think it's pretty well-liked now (kind of like OHMSS). Ever since the start, though, the debut Bond film has always been one of my favorites in the series, and for me personally is the king of Terrence Young's films.
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