Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B (Diamonds Are Forever vs. The World Is Not Enough)

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  • Posts: 232
    Thunderball is by far the better film. As much as I love and enjoy Octopussy, Thunderball's atmosphere just represents Bond's world far more. Not only are Claudine Auger and Luciana Paluzzi two of the best Bond girls, but the aesthetic of the film is pure Bondian. Octopussy has too many silly crocodile, clown and circus costumes for my taste.
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    edited February 2012 Posts: 2,632
    Harry Saltzman and Albert R. Broccoli presents Sean Connery in Ian Fleming's

    Thunderball!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Volante wrote:
    10 minutes of underwater scenes cut out, or sped up, and it would be perfect.

    Even someone who votes for it cant ignore the main problem. Its dull, dull, dull. Cut out 10 minutes? Try half an hour.

    The stuff in Shrublands is entertaining enough but ultimately pretty much superfluous to the plot. The hijacking of the bombs is well done even though camouflaging the plane takes about 4 hours of screen time. But after Bond arrives in Nassau the film grinds to a halt as he has a nice holiday swimming, drinking and shagging at the taxpayers expense. Unless Fiona is on screen Sean just strolls around with his smug GF face on of a bloke who has read the script and knows everything will turn out alright in the end.

    For what should be a thrilling premise there is absolutely zero tension once Bond arrives in the Bahamas. How close does SPECTRE get to detonating the bombs? Nowhere near is the answer. One is caught in some old boat off the Florida coast and the other sees SPECTRE caught red handed and even if they were to detonate it as the marines parachute in what would be the damage? Nassau wiped off the map. A bit of a bummer for those in the blast zone but ultimately who cares? And the fact is they cant detonate it anyway because they never even get the fuses out of the box and Kotze throws them into the sea FFS!! Contrast this with ‘be at least 20 miles away when it goes off’ and Berkoffs insane performance and there is no comparison in suspense.

    If SPECTRE is blackmailing the west I want to see Bond saving us from Armageddon at the last possible instant. A bit like – oh whats that other film where Bond stops a nuclear warhead going off and prevents WW3 with the tension ratcheted up to 11 as everybody thinks he is crazy and the army are holding him back from defusing the bomb?

    OP might not be as taut as FRWL, OHMSS or CR but it shows exactly how to do an over the top Bond. Fantastic action set pieces, Sir Rog on sparkling form, great villains and it all rattles along at a cracking pace and then just as you are thinking its your average Roger Moore romp it changes gear for the last half hour into the most tension packed bomb countdown in the series before giving you a little cherry on the top after the main climax with some preposterous stuff featuring Q in a union jack hot air balloon and Bond hanging onto the outside of a plane.

    Yes it has its flaws but these are generally fleeting moments (the tarzan call, the camel double take, the croc submarine) which are soon over and replaced with something brilliant. In Cubbys old maxim of ‘putting every penny on screen’ and giving you value for money OP is probably only rivalled by MR for consistently entertaining you throughout its running time. TB might also have every penny up there but as it launches into another plodding underwater sequence theres only so long you can say ‘yes this is pretty impressive cinematography for 1965’ before you have to add the caveat ‘but christ I wish theyd get on with it.’ And before everyone says TB is classic Bond - what does that even mean? Yes its Terence Young, yes its Connery and yes it has Fleming as its source material (well perhaps - how much of it is McClory and Whittingham?). That doesnt mean its not all just a bit 'meh'. As an adaptation of the novel its pretty fainthful but I have to say I find the TB novel to be pretty middling. Certainly its far from Flemings best - whether thats the McClory influence again is another debate but TB in neither book nor film form never hits the heights of FRWL and OHMSS.

    Just to clarify: my vote goes to OP.
  • Posts: 2,341
    I have already cast my vote for OP but even though TB has the great women and looks soo good and is such an epic, I take issue with it:

    TB is not as well written as it could be. the shrublands scenes are too coincidental to be belivable, ( I mean Bond just happens to be recovering there where the SPECTRE plan in put into action.) And with Count Lippe death(motor bike blows up a car on an English country road) where Bond does not even bother to mention it back at Mi6 (WTF, I mean Bond basically left the scene of an accident and does not stick around to investigate or notify authorities? Duh...)
    Bond does not do much real spy work he kinda stumbles onto the SPECTRE plan. And some parts of the film is just undeniably boring.

    At the risk of being acused of sacriledge and getting hit in the mouth my thoughts. TB is an iconic film but IMO it pales in comparison to say GF, DN, or FRWL.
  • Posts: 2,491
    hard...
    i guess TB
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Octopussy was a very good film, but Thunderball was an epic.
  • Haven't seen Thunderball for ages now, but nevertheless know it well from so many past viewings

    Don't need to say a word about Octopussy, gave that a thorough review a few days ago, highlighting points and pitfalls

    Thunderball wins, I should really see this again sometime if able

  • Posts: 4,762
    My vote goes to Octopussy

    Overall, OP is much more entertaining and fast-paced whereas TB tends to drag out several scenes lack in action for a good time period, leaving us waiting for the next gun or fist fight. In OP, the action scenes and the plot scenes are spaced out well enough to keep us engaged and attentive. This is the biggest determining factor, because both movies are equal in villains and locations; also, I like TB's score better than OP's, but as stated before, OP is ten thousand times more fun and entertaining. Though let is be said, both movies are very close in my rankings. Still OP gets the win!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    14-11, in favor of Thunderball.
  • Posts: 2,341
    00Beast wrote:
    My vote goes to Octopussy

    Overall, OP is much more entertaining and fast-paced whereas TB tends to drag out several scenes lack in action for a good time period, leaving us waiting for the next gun or fist fight. In OP, the action scenes and the plot scenes are spaced out well enough to keep us engaged and attentive. This is the biggest determining factor, because both movies are equal in villains and locations; also, I like TB's score better than OP's, but as stated before, OP is ten thousand times more fun and entertaining. Though let is be said, both movies are very close in my rankings. Still OP gets the win!

    RIGHT ON. CAN I GET A WITNESS?

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    TB because it's the superior film through and through by a galactic mile.
  • Again for nostolgic reasons Im gonna have to go with Octopussy.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    A Bond film needs constant action just for some of you to like it? Check out how spectacular FRWL is without action every minute. TB is plenty action packed. Unless we saw a different film. A great PTS fight, Bond scrapping at the clinic, sneaking into Largo's base, and the greatest underwater fight scenes that rival scenes shot in the deep to this day. A great balance of action and story with some of the coolest moments like all the 00s meeting on an epic set and the meeting with Bond and Largo at the card tables where Bond figuratively uses specter/SPECTRE. The stakes really feel highest in TB, and all seems at risk. We had a gorgeous lead Bond girl, a beautiful expendable Bond girl, and an equally sexy villainous Bond girl. We see Bond vulnerable after a gunshot wound and he is frantic to escape. What more could you all want?!
  • Posts: 4,762
    A Bond film needs constant action just for some of you to like it? Check out how spectacular FRWL is without action every minute. TB is plenty action packed. Unless we saw a different film. A great PTS fight, Bond scrapping at the clinic, sneaking into Largo's base, and the greatest underwater fight scenes that rival scenes shot in the deep to this day. A great balance of action and story with some of the coolest moments like all the 00s meeting on an epic set and the meeting with Bond and Largo at the card tables where Bond figuratively uses specter/SPECTRE. The stakes really feel highest in TB, and all seems at risk. We had a gorgeous lead Bond girl, a beautiful expendable Bond girl, and an equally sexy villainous Bond girl. We see Bond vulnerable after a gunshot wound and he is frantic to escape. What more could you all want?!

    ROGER MOORE!!! Well in all seriousness, I do believe that TB is one of the better Bond movies out there, but OP rivals it in many aspects and betters it in others. Both come down to the wire, let it be said.
  • A sprinkling of Roger Moore improves life in general, I always find! Thunderball saw a prime-Connery too. I don't agree that he was 'bored' at this stage. He was magnificent in this. Perhaps I rate Thunderball slightly lower than the other early Connery classics because it ultimately caused a fair bit of pain to the series. Kevin McClory. A name every Bond fan should shrink back in terror from. Rog should have put him down the chimney stack in FYEO instead.

    Delighted to see Octopussy putting up a surprisingly valiant fight against such a Bond 'standard'. I love that film.
  • edited February 2012 Posts: 940
    Both are great but Thunderball is Bond at its best for me. Many of my favourite moments of the 22 films come from this movie.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    Thunderball OP is great but not as exciting as TB.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    TB is Bond mania, you don't get any bigger than that and Brady pretty much covered why.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    A Bond film needs constant action just for some of you to like it? Check out how spectacular FRWL is without action every minute. TB is plenty action packed. Unless we saw a different film. A great PTS fight, Bond scrapping at the clinic, sneaking into Largo's base, and the greatest underwater fight scenes that rival scenes shot in the deep to this day. A great balance of action and story with some of the coolest moments like all the 00s meeting on an epic set and the meeting with Bond and Largo at the card tables where Bond figuratively uses specter/SPECTRE. The stakes really feel highest in TB, and all seems at risk. We had a gorgeous lead Bond girl, a beautiful expendable Bond girl, and an equally sexy villainous Bond girl. We see Bond vulnerable after a gunshot wound and he is frantic to escape. What more could you all want?!

    Seconded. I've read complaints about a "boring" TB but that must've been a different cut. I think it moves along pretty slickly and quickly. AVTAK and TWINE seem more slowly paced IMHO. Plus Connery at the top of his form and the best gallery of Bond girls in the series. What's not to love?

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I see we've lost interest in this thread now (just like all the other Versus threads). I think Thunderball won, but I'm too lazy to count right now.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Thunderball, even though it hasn't dated so well compaired to OP.
  • What happens when we run out of Bond movies to compare :-/

    I quite enjoy these type of things
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2012 Posts: 13,355
    With over 500 comparisons to do, I think we're OK for the moment. ;)
  • Posts: 4,762
    Thunderball wins this match, just by the sheer number of votes it got by my memory. Thanks for waiting patiently, I'm sorry for the long delay. Nevertheless, onto the next round!

    Moonraker vs. The World is not Enough
  • Posts: 562
    Moonraker

    This was a tough call... They're both among my least favourite films.
  • Moonraker. Up until they go into Space it's pure Bond fun. It's got an excellent score by John Barry, maybe the single best PTS in the series IMO, and Roger Moore having a blast as usual. Call me crazy but I think MR is underrated.
  • edited February 2012 Posts: 1,092
    Moonraker is soooo underrated it makes me mad. Great flick. People that complain about going into space forget that most of the film (the first 1:30) are spent down on earth. It's only like less than 30 mins that he spends in space. What is the big deal?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    TWINE
  • TWINE, easily.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Lois Chiles was more believable as an astronaut than Denise Richards was as anything requiring some sort of education.

    MR for me.
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