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Indeed @wildboonjive. QoS is a very deep Bond film, and far more emotionally complex than many fans are willing to look.
Well said @battleshipgreygt, well said.
Agree with this. Its the criticism of the lazy. QoS has a couple of problems but you look closely and there is lots of juicy character motivation. It doesn't treat you as an idiot.
And I think that is why many say they are confused by the movie. They went into a Bond film, many expecting mindless fun, and didn't want to think, so they were oblivious to the characterization that was going on in front of them.
I actually think the end scene is probably one of the best parts of the film (no...I didn't mean it in THAT way). Its well acted by all and it's a good payoff for Craig's Bond. Its one of the few moments in the film that actually compells you.
As I've said before one of the things that urks me about Quantum is that its just not engaging enough. It should be but it isn't. The sceme feels second-fiddle to the whole Bond/Vesper storyline too. The film doesn't give me enough reason to care about two blokes wanting to start a drought in the middle of the desert. In many ways the film feels like a mere "add-on" to CR. A good sequel shouldn't be that way. It should work either on its own or as part of a double-bill.
That said there are some good aspects. The scenes with Bond and Mathis for instance really stand out and some of the art direction is impressive (namely a lot of the stuff in Bond's hotel). HOWEVER I still maintain that the cinematography in CR blows you away MUCH more. Who can't be impressed by the shot swooping over the crane as the two men fight or the opening establishing shot at the Bahamas. Moments liked that made me go "wow", never felt that way with QoS.
You may be on to something there.
CR has arguably just as much characterisation yet is a far more satisfying and...yes..."fun" film.
No offence but comments like the above sound pretentious.
He is. I always expect mindless fun from Bond, not a Shindler's list (or whatever drama film there is ) kind of drama influenced action movie.
No, you are completely right!
It's not pretentious. I'm not acting like I am the messiah of Bond and everything I say is right. Is it wrong to want to be challenged by a Bond film that isn't afraid to add in brilliant drama and characterization? No, it isn't, and I get sick of the action, action, mindless fun, action that I have seen before. Films like that get tiring, because sometimes I want to think when I watch a film, and instead of going to Nolan every time, I can now go to CR, QoS, and now hopefully Skyfall. Drama is a sign that Bond is growing up, and it needs to step up its game.
Sorry, but in terms of tone, style, location, plot resolution, the ending of QoS owes nothing to Bond history and everything to Bourne. When have you ever seen Bond on a snow-swept East European council estate resolving a personal issue relating to an ex-girlfriend apart from in QoS? And when did QoS come out? 4 years after the Bourne Supremacy. I'm sorry, but any one who continues to claim (depsite all the glaring and blatant evidence to the contrary) that QoS is not heavily influenced by the Bourne franchise is utterly deluded. And I say that as a big fan of QoS. QoS is Bond's tribute to the excellent Bourne franchise. I personally felt that Bond needed to respond to Bourne, but would have preferred it if the references weren't quite so blatant. Hopefully SF will see Bond fully recovered from this inferiority complex.
Open your bloody eyes man, and get a better argument if you're going to try and shove this down our throats. Bond is going to confront the MAN WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR VESPER'S INVOLVEMENT WITH QUANTUM AND SUBSEQUENT DEATH, AND HE IS RECRUITING ANOTHER WOMAN TO DO THE SAME THING TO! How else is Bond going to handle that situation? Smile and dance? Seriously man, HE IS GOING TO BE SERIOUS!!! HE LOVED HER, SO HE WILL OBVIOUSLY TAKE THE SITUATION AS MORE THAN SERIOUS. Bourne is telling the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Neski that he killed them in cold blood, as a bloody assassin, and how is HE supposed to act differently there than serious? Should he dance too? No, you'd probably compare that to Bond as well SOMEHOW. Now on to style. Bourne on the other hand is confessing, while Yusef is the one who is doing the confessing, so the style isn't the same at all, and Yusef's answer to Bond is offscreen, while we hear all of Bourne's dialogue with Neski's daughter, and her reaction. Bad argument there. And are you really trying to argue that the location is a copy? Last time I checked Bourne hasn't been to Lake Como, Bregenz, Siena, Bolivia, or the damn Bolivian desert for that matter, so just one little location is enough for you to think Bond copied Bourne. It's Kazan, and not even a copy of the locations used in any Bourne film! It's not Moscow at all! Bond is allowed to use Russian locations, and you're argument is that Bond is copying Bourne by being in Russia? It is a great setting for drama, so why not? Is Ethan Hunt a copy now too just because he went to Russia? Last time I checked Bourne doesn't own Russia, and just because a film is set there, especially films in the spy genre, doesn't mean they are being copycats. Just think a little, please. And now, plot resolution. Which is again a horrible argument here. Neski's daughter simply cries, and we never get much out of her for resolution, and Bourne just walks away, satisfied that he confessed to his demons. Bond on the other hand has an offscreen meeting with Yusef, so how are we to know the resolution there if we never heard it? All we know is that Bond forgives Vesper and just wants to move on, and even that is open to interpretation. The ending to QoS could be taken many ways, especially with how Bond is feeling, while Bourne's is obvious and doesn't let you wonder really, because there is nothing to wonder. We knew Bourne wanted to confess, and he does. We don't know what Bond did or said, so it is hard to say what he did with Yusef. The resolution isn't the same at all, or what Bond and Bourne respectively aimed to achieve. Even their relationships were different with the women they loved, and each complex in their own way. So, @Getafix, please at least try to make better arguments in the future, and feel free to be more clever than "Bond is just a Bourne copy anymore". I wonder what people like you would do if the Bourne films didn't exist. You'd have to look harder for comparisons, or you might actually have to think a bit about QoS. Crazy, huh?!
This is like having a debate with a flat-earther. If I pointed at the moon and said, 'look, there's the moon', you'd probably deny it.
The evidence is right before you. Just try opening you eyes.
Did you even read my post?
I have my eyes wide open. I know QoS and Bourne backwards and forwards, and my friend, in your arguments I see BS. Your baseless claims are annoying.
Calm down dear, it's only a Bond thread.
I skim read it. It was barely coherent gibberish.
I didn't say Bond is a Bourne copy. I said QoS has many elements that appear entirely lifted from Bourne, the ending being one of them. Add in the jump across the street in the Sienna scene, the utterly Bourne close-quarters fighting and you get the gist of my argument.
I think it's best if we leave it at that.
Don't treat me like a child. You "skim read it", huh? Well there lies the problem. You tell me to open my eyes, yet yours are so closed you can't bother to read my absolute burning of your unfounded argument. We should leave it as this, because you will always be this way, and be completely blind to what QoS has to offer. Play the fool. At least there are people like @actonsteve here that understand it is no way to live.
Quantum of Solace
Point made, I think.
It's in my top five, maybe even three.
I am with you 200%
The films I love most in the classic series are the ones which have that little more meat on the bone ie FRWL, OHMSS, TLD, FYEO,LTK even bits of TB and Spy. Loud bangs and car chases are fine when you are 12.But as you get older....
I agree too @actonsteve but all the films u mention were more captivating, more engaging and yes more fun than QoS was. yet they were also 'grown up' films
Plus QoS had it's fair share of 'bangs and car chases' - all thrust in there to cover the holes in the thin story (2 big chases in under 10 minutes?)
Compared to OHMSS, FRWL, GF, CR and GE (my top 5 Bond films) QOS is a dullard
I would say the hunting down and cornering of Yusef and Bond nearly mercy killing Camille as the fire rages around them is pretty memorable.
And you think QoS is a dullard while others of us lap it up.
Actually this sort of lets it down more for me. Coming of CR, and knowing this was sort of a continuation, I was expecting something better.
Anyway, why has this become a QOS discussion thread? For the next round, how about TSWLM vs DN (if it hasn't been done before).
You're right, we should move on. but before we do...
1. I can't tell you not to count NSNA, but it really isn't fair to the other films to do so.
2. If you actually truly believe that a Thunderball remake, and a bad one at that, is better than an official Bond film, for lack of a better word, that is wacked out. And just so ANYONE doesn't think I'm a Craig fanboy because it happens to be QOS, I would rather watch Moonraker and Die Another Day. NSNA is an abortion. No self-respecting Bond fan should own a copy, let alone rank it ahead of an EON entry. End of discussion.
Someone doesn't like NSNA, haha. I just gave my thoughts on it in the debate thread actually.
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1117/qos-appreciation-yes-i-said-appreciation/p8#Item_217