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Sherlock (2010) BBC Series Discussion Thread

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  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    I can understand their reasons for not revealing the truth. Given that this has been talked about and debated for the last two years with literally dozens of different theories, I don't think the truth could ever match the fans' hype and therefore there would bound to be huge disappointment from many people. Perhaps what we witnessed last night was about as good as it could be.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    WillyGalore wrote:
    I can understand their reasons for not revealing the truth. Given that this has been talked about and debated for the last two years with literally dozens of different theories, I don't think the truth could ever match the fans' hype and therefore there would bound to be huge disappointment from many people. Perhaps what we witnessed last night was about as good as it could be.
    That's how I see it, someone will be disappointed out there no matter what theory they went with. Still, on the other side of it, it would've been nice to have a concrete answer after all these years. I was stunned at the first one, then realized it was just a theory while recognizing that he never had a bungee cord on him. I loved his break-in through the window and the quick kiss to Molly. The theory that Sherlock gives Anderson is the one that was the closest to how I thought he pulled it off. I doubt we'll ever really know.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    edited January 2014 Posts: 6,396
    On another note, I thought Martin Freeman was absolutely superb. His reaction when he finally sees Sherlock was quite fantastic.
    I also loved the idea of Sherlock & Mycroft playing, what you first think is Chess, only to be revealed as Operation. Brilliant!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    How ...
    do we know for sure that the one theory Sherlock told Anderson is not actually true?
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I were totally satisfied by the episode, it was worth the wait. The dialouge is just brilliant, i love how the characters have evolved since series 1.

    I loved the bit when:
    Sherlock jumped through the window, fix up his hair and kisses Molly. How Bondish!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @MrBond, absolutely. I loved that scene.

    4EverBonded wrote:
    How ...
    do we know for sure that the one theory Sherlock told Anderson is not actually true?
    I wouldn't say that we know for sure, I just surmised that's the case because of how Anderson replies when Sherlock tells him the theory and walks off, and he starts laughing. I think it's just Sherlock telling him another one of the 13 possible ways he could have pulled it off.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Well ...
    once I get to view the show WITH sound, I will get a much better feel and experience. However, I think the joke could be that Sherlock did tell him the truth, and the funny thing is that Anderson will never believe it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Alright, here's all that is nagging in my head regarding Hearse:
    The theory stuff bugged me big time too, but only because we have no conclusive answers, and not for the theories themselves as I loved how they were presented. I was disappointed with the case in the episode, as well. I thought the bomb plot took a major second chair to the rest of the story, which it should have, but a Parliament bombing needed to be given greater tension and prominence than it had. I also wish they wouldn't have named the bomber Moran either, because it teases me with what could have been. When dreaming of what Hearse would be like, I thought we'd get a version of Moran from the stories, the dangerous, dishonorably discharged military sniper who was Moriarty's right hand man. It would've explained all the times Moriarty used snipers and could've been interesting to see another military man face off against John if a fight sparked up. Moran didn't even get developed in any meaningful way, and doesn't get a single word of dialogue, another thing that disappointed me. They should've named him something else, as calling him Moran makes me want for something more than what we got. Though I will admit that Moriarty doesn't come off as the type for a sidekick of sorts, so I guess it fit his character to be a loner. I think over time I'll grow to accept the "flaws" I see in this episode though, as not everything in the show can be done the way I dreamed, and I should be glad the writers' did their own thing with Doyle used as a fruitful base. I still wish the Parliament bombing was given more prominence though, because that could've been ten times more suspenseful if it had time to boil.

    Still, I don't think we know everything behind some of the things that happened in the episode yet, like why John was captured and if Sherlock was lying or not about the theory he gives to Anderson, or if Anderson just imagined it all. Once we know more, I think Hearse will make more sense, hopefully. I have some big questions for what is to come as well. Why exactly did Anderson get kicked off the force, and will he return to service? Where the hell Donovan is in all this mess? Just how did the police know Moriarty was a fake, and just how good did Sherlock have him beaten in their chess game in the Reichenbach Fall? Also, John still doesn't know anything about what happened that day at Barts, and Molly must know everything that went down and how, so will he question her in the future? Magnussen has me excited as well. He has that eerie, creepy feel to him, and I can only wonder what is in store for us these next episodes with him as the villain. I hope we get him as a villain clear till the end of the next series, like Moriarty was a two series baddie. I also wonder what the cliffhanger will be? If series 1 ended in Sherlock and John in peril and 2 with Sherlock in peril (from John's perspective), I wonder if John will be the one left in some kind of severe condition this time around with Sherlock doing all the sobbing and worrying. I hope not, but with Moffat writing the final episode, we all know the cliffhanger is gonna hurt.

    As for the theories in the episode, I am also unsure whether Sherlock meant it or not when he shared it with Anderson. It seems very logical and earnest, but at the same time he looked like he was playing Anderson the fool, so who really knows? John doesn't even know how Sherlock did it yet, or just what was at stake if Sherlock failed (he, Mrs. Hudson and Lestrade dying).

    It seems that there are now more questions than answers post Reichenbach, which is something I'm not sure I like. There has to be more to all this, more to be revealed about how Sherlock survived and why John got taken, and just what Magnussen has to do with all of it. And I don't think we've seen the end of these theories. The thing that has always bugged me about Sherlock's fall is that two things had to happen perfectly, without a chance of failure for Sherlock to successfully fake his death: Moriarty had to die (or else he'd have know Sherlock didn't really die) and John needed to be on the scene near St. Barts, actions both men seemingly took voluntarily and without provocation. Like I said, there has to be more on this. Let's talk this out, everyone, my head is spinning.

    I will be re-watching this episode a lot, and am anticipating the second one very much. Despite my issues with Hearse, I loved most of it and can't wait to see just what is going to happen next, especially with all these questions still up in the air.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7
    That's what gets me about it, after all this time we're just left with theories, theories that I really hope are laid out a bit more until we get a concrete answer. A few hours after I saw the premiere, it's settling in and I'm thinking on it more and it just wasn't all it was cracked up to be. I completely agree on the bombing plot: it was such a big event that really took a backseat and was sort of slid under the carpet towards the end. I like that each episode has a case, but I feel like they had way too much to unveil and work on, even with the given 90 minutes they have. I know all the fans had different theories and tons of people would be disappointed, no matter what route they took, but after shows like 'Lost,' I've grown quite tired of the 'mysteries unsolved.' I don't need everything spoon-fed to me, but at the same time, some concrete answers every now and then would be nice.

    Having said that, who knows how they'll tackle episodes two and three. He still has over ten theories to unveil (if he chooses to do that), so he could always spend the next two episodes doing so and giving us the final answer in the finale, and all of my complaining, worrying, and contemplating could be for nothing. We shall see in time.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    If they
    connect the dots, answer questions, bring things together in the next episode I will be happier, yes.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2014 Posts: 28,694
    Some here are Doyle readers, @Sandy and @4EverBonded being fellow Sherlockians/Baker St. Bibliophiles, so I ask this:

    Are my fellow Doyle purists disappointed with
    Moran and how he was used?
    I know I already talked abou this in my above post, but I want to get a feel for what others are thinking that are familiar with the story The Empty House. Needless to say, it wasn't what I expected.
  • karatemanchan37karatemanchan37
    Posts: 584
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7
    I don't think that was Moran. The guy right before the end credits however...
  • karatemanchan37karatemanchan37
    Posts: 584
    I think with regards to the theories:
    The one Sherlock tells Anderson seems to be the real one, mainly because of process of elimination (the viewer knew there was no bungie cord, and Moriarty and Sherlock...well), the other because we know that Sherlock is at its most humane (arguably compassionate!) stage here. If we were to trust that Gatiss/Moffitt are leading us the right way, then he told Anderson the real theory as a way of saying "Thanks". Weather or not he believes in it is his problem.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    karatemanchan37 wrote:
    I think with regards to the theories:
    The one Sherlock tells Anderson seems to be the real one, mainly because of process of elimination (the viewer knew there was no bungie cord, and Moriarty and Sherlock...well), the other because we know that Sherlock is at its most humane (arguably compassionate!) stage here. If we were to trust that Gatiss/Moffitt are leading us the right way, then he told Anderson the real theory as a way of saying "Thanks". Weather or not he believes in it is his problem.
    I agree, as of now, I think this is what we're meant to think. We may get further information as the series goes on but I guess not.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    karatemanchan37 wrote:
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7
    I don't think that was Moran. The guy right before the end credits however...
    But the man was known by the world and Sherlock as Moran. It hardly matters though, since he wasn't an accomplice to Moriarty's webs of crime like in the story anyway. Plus, we already know who the guy is before the credits, and it sure isn't Moran.
    karatemanchan37 wrote:
    I think with regards to the theories:
    The one Sherlock tells Anderson seems to be the real one, mainly because of process of elimination (the viewer knew there was no bungie cord, and Moriarty and Sherlock...well), the other because we know that Sherlock is at its most humane (arguably compassionate!) stage here. If we were to trust that Gatiss/Moffitt are leading us the right way, then he told Anderson the real theory as a way of saying "Thanks". Weather or not he believes in it is his problem.
    Maybe. I have seen some people rationalize that Anderson acted so crazed after Sherlock told him how he did it because the solution was so simple, yet his group came up with nothing but outlandish theories that never lived up to the real thing. I have read some interviews with Moffat and Gatiss and it reads like they are leading us on. Who knows at this point...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I like the ambiguity of it all and it also takes a tonne of pressure off of Moffat and Gatiss because had an actual scenario been settled on with absolute certainty, it would cause and serve as an unwanted distraction from everything else the episode had to offer.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2014 Posts: 28,694
    Here's a great interview with Moffat largely concerning Sherlock:
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/sherlock-season-3-preview-steven-667990

    No spoilers for those worried.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Was I the only one reminded of V for Vendetta? Not only the whole bonfire night gunpowder plot idea, but using the tube to carry the bomb.

    Anyway it was as brilliant as ever. I'm not sure if we actually know how he survived or not yet but if the explanation he gave to Anderson is the real one then I'm happy with it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Was I the only one reminded of V for Vendetta? Not only the whole bonfire night gunpowder plot idea, but using the tube to carry the bomb.

    Anyway it was as brilliant as ever. I'm not sure if we actually know how he survived or not yet but if the explanation he gave to Anderson is the real one then I'm happy with it.

    I was reminded of that too, yes. It was Guy Fawkes Day, after all. ;)
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 5,993
    About the last one : Edward Woodward. That's all I'm saying, Edward Woodward.

    Oh, Christ, I missed it ! I missed it so much ! That's what I call quality television. In fact, every director of TV programs everywhere in the world should watch it to know how it's done. Yes, I'm thinking about you, french program directors !
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Was I the only one reminded of V for Vendetta? Not only the whole bonfire night gunpowder plot idea, but using the tube to carry the bomb.

    Anyway it was as brilliant as ever. I'm not sure if we actually know how he survived or not yet but if the explanation he gave to Anderson is the real one then I'm happy with it.

    I was, then when Sherlock asks about what day it was, I muttered aloud "Fifth of November..."
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Gerard wrote:
    About the last one : Edward Woodward. That's all I'm saying, Edward Woodward.

    Yeah it did remind me a bit of that, but with a twist (the people lighting the bonfire didn't actually know anyone was in there).
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think - unsure - The Sign of Three is playing live now! :D
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    It's just finished. A quite brilliant episode.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yay! I will watch it tonight. :)
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    I didn't enjoy that one as much as some of the other episodes. Got a bit bored to be honest. It got better towards the end though and the way it tied everything up was very clever.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    WillyGalore wrote:
    It's just finished. A quite brilliant episode.

    Here here and it's nice to see my home town of Bristol making an appearance .
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Loved it, maybe not as much as last week but was a nice change from the bigger feel of previous episode, nice to see Alice Lowe in there as well.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    This one was a better written episode and a lot more funny as well. Excellent writing imho.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    A change compared to everything done before but needed as this seemed the time to get this type of episode crossed off the list.

    Next Sunday should bring about a great ending.
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