Sherlock (2010) BBC Series Discussion Thread

1464749515254

Comments

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Nice! I love this series so much.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Can't wait to see their next set of adventures!!! :-bd
  • Posts: 5,993
    Titles of the first two episodes have been revealed. They will be "The Six Thatchers" (reference to "The Adventure of the Six Napoleons" ?) and "The Lying Detective" (reference to "The Adventure of the Dying Detective" ? )

    Oh, BTW, something good and something bad happened to Amanda Abbington (Mary Morstan-Watson) the other day at the Emmies :

    radiotimes.com/news/2016-09-19/sherlocks-amanda-abbington-had-her-purse-stolen-as-she-collected-her-emmy

    Now, that was a nasty thing to do !
  • I urge people to watch the far superior Jeremy Brett series if they haven't already. At least the episodes before Brett's ill health gets in the way of his portrayal.

    I hate the Holmes character in this. He's nothing like the character in the books, whereas Jeremy Brett managed to remain faithful while embellishing it with his sometimes unusual but nearly always superbly judged line readings and mannerisms. The greatest compliment I can pay is that he improved upon the character in the books.

    Holmes was not the selfish, nasty, character he is in this one. Holmes of the books had a brilliant insight into human nature and their feelings. He was a gentleman. Yes he could be brusque, did not brook foolishness, but at the end of the day cared about his client's welfare (particularly women) deeply.

    This one can't understand how people feel, doesn't care. Has no respect for Watson. Nothing like the character in the books.

    And the plots..... well they are awful. People rave about Mark Gatiss and suggest him for Bond....

    The show is so smug about it's own apparent cleverness and success. They incorporate fan fic in their episodes, and laugh at the shows' fans who actually want a proper answer to how Sherlock survived, instead of the garbage non answer they provided. If that was the real solution, it' still garbage.

    The setting is the modern day, so of course Irene Adler now has to be a 'dominatrix', and Watson's wife has to be assassin. Laughably clichéd exercise in feminist box ticking. There was even an episode where the solution was a dream about a feminist revenge society. I mean, bloody hell!
  • Posts: 5,767
    Fair enough.

    I still love the show and couldn´t care less wether it´s faithful or not. Nobody said it is or has to be. It uses the source material to great benefit.
    If I want faithful, I read Doyle´s books. Who by the way had a much more ignorant solution for Holmes´ survival.
    If I watch a show, I want it to make sense in its own framework, and there´s hardly any tv show on the whole planet that does that better.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I urge people to watch the far superior Jeremy Brett series if they haven't already. At least the episodes before Brett's ill health gets in the way of his portrayal.

    I hate the Holmes character in this. He's nothing like the character in the books, whereas Jeremy Brett managed to remain faithful while embellishing it with his sometimes unusual but nearly always superbly judged line readings and mannerisms. The greatest compliment I can pay is that he improved upon the character in the books.

    Holmes was not the selfish, nasty, character he is in this one. Holmes of the books had a brilliant insight into human nature and their feelings. He was a gentleman. Yes he could be brusque, did not brook foolishness, but at the end of the day cared about his client's welfare (particularly women) deeply.

    This one can't understand how people feel, doesn't care. Has no respect for Watson. Nothing like the character in the books.

    And the plots..... well they are awful. People rave about Mark Gatiss and suggest him for Bond....

    The show is so smug about it's own apparent cleverness and success. They incorporate fan fic in their episodes, and laugh at the shows' fans who actually want a proper answer to how Sherlock survived, instead of the garbage non answer they provided. If that was the real solution, it' still garbage.

    The setting is the modern day, so of course Irene Adler now has to be a 'dominatrix', and Watson's wife has to be assassin. Laughably clichéd exercise in feminist box ticking. There was even an episode where the solution was a dream about a feminist revenge society. I mean, bloody hell!

    @Comte_de_Bleuchamp, did you care to watch the show past the first episode's twenty minute start? It's like we've seen a different program.

    I would suggest going back to the source for a little light reading if you think Benedict's Holmes isn't up to snuff with the original literary incarnation. Holmes is a complex character, and in the books was a gentleman in some instances and edgy and quite quick to outburst the next, as in the show. He could be kind and invested in a client's plight, sure, but he also often lashed out at Watson cruelly and spun into tirades about how he fails him as a biographer with his romanticization of their cases.

    The BBC Sherlock has all the original's genius, Bohemian-nature, dark humor, sarcasm/biting wit, loyalty and love for Watson (developed over time, as in the text), and scores of other traits, in addition to the darkness of his drug use and possible asexuality, while also playing with the idea of him being an Asperger's sufferer. None of this is a far cry from what we can learn from Doyle's original text.

    Obviously the Granada series was more faithful, it was developed as a period piece program that adapted the stories meticulously to the very lines of dialogue spoken. BBC's Sherlock is updating to a modern climate, changing details where they don't correlate from the originals, but largely keeping the same feeling and "voices" of the characters alive. There's many instances in fact where the show has improved on Doyle's own work, who wasn't one for continuity or using his great characters to full effect.
  • Cumberbatch's is undeniably nastier than the original. I guess kindness and humanity, at the very least civility, are old fashioned traits.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 5,767
    Cumberbatch's is undeniably nastier than the original. I guess kindness and humanity, at the very least civility, are old fashioned traits.
    I would agree that Comberbatch´s Sherlock is way nastier than the original on the surface. But it is put to such great effect that I´m glad they did it that way.

    I don´t know what you mean by your second sentence, since despite all his nastiness and sociopathy Cumberbatch´s Sherlock is in effect at times more kind, human and civil toward his friends than other people. Or at the very least develops such traits throughout the series.

    As for old-fashioned, in a world full of tv series´you can hardly deduct sufficiently fashionable traits from one single character.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Cumberbatch's is undeniably nastier than the original. I guess kindness and humanity, at the very least civility, are old fashioned traits.

    He absolutely has some nasty moments, but as I said, he's undeniably Sherlock Holmes.

    So much of that nastiness is rather manufactured on his part, however, and I like that the show has peeled away some of those features of him over time as John shows him the proper way to act, reigniting his sense of caring. It's still quite clear, however, how he feels about John, Mrs. Hudson, Lestrade, Molly and all the rest of the people in his small circle that earn his respect.

    Like the literary Holmes, Watson's intervention has made him a much greater person, less reclusive, more open-hearted and understanding.


    I must say, Comte, that I find it amusing you are describing the attributes of kindness and humanity as old-fashioned in relation to a British character that thrived in a time of disgusting imperialism. No time period owns specific traits, and certainly not that age of savage expansion far removed from anything resembling kindness or a respect for humanity.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    OFFICIAL.

    Sherlock will return in The Six Thatchers on January 1, 2017.

    CvtkGh4WAAA7lUT.jpg
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    There is a trailer for this on the BBC somewhere it was first broadcast last night in the UK.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Here it is, thanks for the alert, @Mrcoggins!



  • Posts: 12,526
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Here it is, thanks for the alert, @Mrcoggins!



    I am so looking forward to seeing Sherlock back on our Tv screens on New Years Day. :-bd
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Looks dark. Can't freaking wait!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Is New Year's Day also the date of the American airing? This will actually be the first time I've caught the show new as opposed to repeats and on DVD (not counting The Abominable Bride).

    On that subject, I've heard PBS censors things out of the episodes. Is this true?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Agent007391, it's January 1st in the states, yes.

    I avoid PBS all together and watch each episode the moment they release on the BBC iplayer with an app on my laptop that makes the site think I'm watching from the UK so that I get all the episodes with no funny business.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    BBC America aired the first season, but then stopped. They aired it in a 2 hour timeslot with commercial breaks, but nothing censored. That's how I caught the first season, then I got the rest on DVD. Still haven't bought The Abominable Bride, sadly. I wanna see that again.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Agent007391, all seasons are now on Netflix, if you have that service open to you.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    Surprise with the third episode: The Final Problem.

    And listen to Cumberbatch: “It might be the end of an era, It feels like the end of an era, to be honest. [Season 4] goes to a place where it will be pretty hard to follow on immediately.”

    http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/09/sherlock-season-4-theaters

    sherlock_season4_1.jpg?itok=S3X7gyAk

    Is this the end of Sherlock? :(
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I can't blame them for quitting while they're ahead, as opposed to so many American shows that keep going long past their sell by date. I find it interesting that they'd do this now.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    The trailer looks fantastic.
  • Posts: 5,767
    I can't blame them for quitting while they're ahead, as opposed to so many American shows that keep going long past their sell by date. I find it interesting that they'd do this now.
    Couldn´t agree more.

  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    New:

  • edited December 2016 Posts: 5,993
    The Hillywood show has done it again :



    Try to find as many references as possible. You have to admit it's hilarious, no ?
  • Posts: 5,993
    The birth of Mary and John's child has been announced in the Daily Telegraph :

    radiotimes.com/news/2016-12-12/john-and-mary-watson-reveal-name-of-their-baby-in-sherlock-birth-announcement
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Let's hope they're not keen on trying to spoil too much of the next season before the first of January. I don't wait three to four years each go to see all the plot points coming weeks before we get the episodes.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 1,469
    I was just watching The Abominable Bride on TV for the first time (the first time I could bring myself to do it), started to rant here, and decided to edit this and save you the description of how I didn't want to watch it after half an hour. Bottom line, I didn't think it was up to the calibre of the first two seasons, which I think were the best. But I'm looking forward to the coming season to see if it's what I would call a return to form. You can tell I prefer a straight mystery to something more character-driven and "clever".
    I urge people to watch the far superior Jeremy Brett series if they haven't already.
    I agree! I'm a big fan of that series and own a copy. (About TV Sherlock:)
    Holmes was not the selfish, nasty, character he is in this one.
    You're right, but I actually think that during the first two seasons, the emphasis on Cumberbatch Holmes' Aspergers traits (socially inept) really worked as a counterpoint to Watson, being different and creating more tension. But since the writers let Holmes become more warm and fuzzy, sometimes it seems like two Watsons talking back and forth--almost like husband and wife, rather than two men talking to each other. Maybe that's stretching things, but it's an image "from my mind palace".

    On the other hand, I just noticed "The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses" on PBS, with Cumberbatch and many others. Shakespeare--now there's good writing and character studies! (Executive Producer is Sam Mendes, and Judi Dench co-stars.)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Thrasos, I don't think it's a case of Holmes being written too "warm and fuzzy." He's still socially inept and ignorant of most social rules (just look at his best man's speech) but through Watson he has learned in some ways how to interact with people better. He's not perfect, and may always go off on random tangents about his own interests or call someone an idiot for not seeing the clues that he knows so intensely, but he has seen more of the humanity in himself and has allowed himself to open up a little bit because of his friendship with the good doctor. It's not a dramatic change, but it's a good change, much like the one you can spot in the original stories where over time Holmes doesn't feel like such a bastard the more Watson is around him. Up to that point I don't think Holmes every really had someone in his life who respected him for who he was, and was able to deal with his personal quirks. More than that, Watson treats him like a person with depth, and doesn't resort to calling him a weirdo out of jealousy or pick on him for his social ineptitude and other character features. He's genuinely interested in what Holmes has to say, and never belittles him, showing true concern for him that isn't artificial.

    I think the show has captured their dynamic perfectly, and the chemistry between Benedict and Martin is still the show's greatest asset. I agree that last season was a far cry from the best of the program, with an over-reliance on things that took the show away from an earnest narrative with Holmes solving cases (which there was a distinct lack of in the latest set of episodes). Hopefully the next series, coming in just a couple weeks is a return to the first two series which had great characters and cases with Holmes and Watson facing some seriously monumental threats.

    I don't expect the show to ever reach the heights of Scandal in Belgravia or The Reichenbach Fall (the "peak" episodes), but it can still aim to rise above series 3.
  • Posts: 1,469
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, points well taken...a good post. And I admit I haven't read the stories (even though I have them--it's about time for me to do that), so I didn't know about the original shift in Holmes' expression.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Thrasos, the stories are a real treat, my favorite things to read and Doyle my favorite author. The shift in Holmes' personality is more subdued that in any of the movies or shows in some ways, because you only really notice it by reading a large portion of the stories to truly chart that development, but it's definitely there. There's moments I could give to you for examples that I adore from the stories that show Holmes' change in character and growing "warmth," but I don't want to spoil anything for you.

    What Holmes and Watson have is just really beautiful. I could get emotional every time I read the paragraph that Watson writes in memoriam to Holmes in The Final Problem, just as I could every time I read about the doctor describing what connection his partner and Irene Adler had as the detective admires her photograph. There's never been a character created as fascinating as Holmes to me, the man who thinks he's a robot, but who over time realizes the value of love and friendship above all things.

    One thing I will say is that you will find that minor characters who now appear to be hugely popular in the modern age (Irene, Mycroft, Moriarty, Lestrade) aren't a big feature in the stories to the extent you'd expect. Irene appears once with slight mentions here and there, Moriarty was invented only to "kill" Holmes with little significance outside his story and Lestrade is an infrequent part of the action, with other inspectors of the Yard appearing where he doesn't.

    But like I said, the stories are a real treat. The fact that Doyle isn't respected as a serious literary mind up there with the so-called "greats" is disgraceful. I've seldom read writing so passionate, imaginative and viscerally transportive as his when he's really at it. He created one of the most human characters of all time (my favorite one as well), and the quintessential everyman of fiction in Watson, who is just as wonderful to study as the detective for his bravery, big heart and wonderfully sentimental and caring way. The pair of them have enriched my life so much on the page and screen that they have stopped feeling like characters to me and have become more like living, breathing presences.
Sign In or Register to comment.